Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

As long as I was looking at tires, I returned to an unresolved issue for the loader I'm building: the front tires.

Fabbing a new front axle, I decided to go with standard 18X8.5-8 golf cart tires due to their high flotation characteristics. I figure if you're going to have a lot of weight hanging out front, you need to not sink your front wheels in the mud if you can help it.

Standard 4 ply GC tires are rated for around 900 lbs. Some state 870, some state 940. The set I bought I thought were 940 until I got them, where they clearly say 870.

So that means my front axle tires are rated for 1740lbs. Now if I pick up 1000 lbs in the bucket and have just enough counterweight that the back end JUST lifts off the ground, then I have 1000 in the front, 1000 in the rear, plus the normal weight of the tractor something like 2700 lbs all riding the front axle.

I suspect that tires will routinely exceed their rating without blowing out, so it's not necessarily a major problem. But if I could get heavier ply tires up there, I'd much rather. I looked for them a year ago when I was making design decisions and didn't find any that were any kind of normal price.

But I got looking again last week and found these:
https://www.prioritytire.com/duro-excel ... ason-tire/

They're 6 ply tires rated for 1250 lbs each. That uprates my front wheels to be rated for 2500 lbs, which is not too far from reality. With these tires I'll seldom if ever exceed their rating I have a couple old flat golf cart wheels, so I took off the old tire and painted the rims silver to match the Ingersoll paint scheme. I used my modified Harbor Freight tire changer to install the new tires. Kinda.
It turns out that GOLF CART TIRES ARE A HUGE PAIN TO CHANGE.

I've changed several types of tires using this tire changer. 14", 15", 16", and 17" radials, and LT tires off my 4x4, and it's surprising how relatively easy it is with this non-powered tool. You don't actually have to stretch the inner bead ring very much getting it over the rim. You just put one side of the ring down in the wheel's center deep groove, and tug/stretch the bead ring to a little bit oval shaped to get it to pop on. Hook the duck's head tool in the bead and spin it around, it's like magic.

But golf cart tires are awful!. They're built as strong and tough as regular car tires, but because the rim's base size is only 8" across, and because they're actually wider than the rim hole size, they have a tiny margin of stretch compared to larger tires.
You have to stretch their inner bead ring A LOT to get it oval enough to get over the wheel rim. And since the hole is so little, the duck's head tool doesn't even fit in there. And you can hardly get your hands and tools in there to do anything. And every time you DO start to get some stretch happening, the bead just slides back off the rim and you have to start over. It was very frustrating, but I eventually won the bitter battle.

If I never change another golf cart tire it'll be too soon.

End of rant.

Ouch! I have fought tires too, only armed with tire irons. I know the pain!

I'm surprised you didn't use trailer tires though.

I went with trailer tires which are taller but narrower because I needed them to "cut" in the dirt when working the garden and I don't have a deck interference issue to worry about . With a deck on taller trailer tires would interfere .
Dave

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 4:10 pm Ouch! I have fought tires too, only armed with tire irons. I know the pain!

I'm surprised you didn't use trailer tires though.

In my relatively ignorant and uninformed opinion, trailer tires just seemed too narrow. Even the stock tires on a 646 just seemed too narrow to me. I think of a backhoe and they have those nice wide flotation tires so that that front end doesn't get buried when the ground gets soupy.

Now if I didn't have power steering then it would require greater effort to turn the steering wheel with that wide profile, especially under a load.

But I do have power steering and I'm presuming it will handle the job without any difficulty. So that's why I went this way.

But it's really easy to find trailer tires that are rated for this weight, so that is a big plus in the trailer tire corner.

Bob

To stop bead slip I use a vise grips on the rim, it also helps to force the bead down towards the center. But I generally am not worried about the paint either


Gordy

Gordy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:03 pm To stop bead slip I use a vise grips on the rim, it also helps to force the bead down towards the center. But I generally am not worried about the paint either


Gordy

I ended up using a C clamp. Same idea, but easier on the paint.

Bob

Gordy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:03 pm To stop bead slip I use a vise grips on the rim, it also helps to force the bead down towards the center. But I generally am not worried about the paint either


Gordy

I do the same thing with a rag to minimize paint damage and have white and silver paint marking pens on hand all the time to do touch ups .

Dave

thebuildist wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:11 pm
In my relatively ignorant and uninformed opinion, trailer tires just seemed too narrow. Even the stock tires on a 646 just seemed too narrow to me. I think of a backhoe and they have those nice wide flotation tires so that that front end doesn't get buried when the ground gets soupy.

Now if I didn't have power steering then it would require greater effort to turn the steering wheel with that wide profile, especially under a load.

But I do have power steering and I'm presuming it will handle the job without any difficulty. So that's why I went this way.

But it's really easy to find trailer tires that are rated for this weight, so that is a big plus in the trailer tire corner.

Bob

Dave made a good point why trailer wheels for you don't make sense, since you want to use the tractor for mowing too and would have clearance issues.

I can offer only my limited experience with the 644 that I got earlier in the year, and has original front tires. They do indeed seem fairly narrow, and I don't have power steering. I have used the tractor so far with bucket full of sand, and crushed lime stone, as well as for carrying various heavy objects. I know you like figures (numbers) but I don't have that, in terms of weight. Definitely far less than the 1000 lbs you're aiming for, perhaps my largest loads were around 500 - 700 lbs. Definitely steering with one hand at times was not something I would do, but at the same time I didn't feel that I had to pull on the steering wheel so hard that it was uncomfortable. As for soft ground or soupy as you say, I myself have avoided such working conditions, recognizing though that one cannot always avoid them. As I always say, it's best to do what you think you'll like best. I like the wider tires you're using! I think they would not be my first choice if using the tractor to also plow the garden. A narrower tire is good there, to dig a little into the ground and keep the tractor go straight. Blowing or pushing snow with the bucket also would benefit either from tire chains in front, and narrower tires. But it's a ll a game of compromises, IMHO.

I put these on the front of my 646 from Miller Tire and noticed a big difference in steering. On my 644 I have the hoe on the back which makes it seem like power steering at times.

Keep the Peace
Harry

Well the 6 ply Trailer 18.5x8.50-8 tires on thr front of my 646 are rated at 935 pounds each: https://recstuff.com/tire-wheel-combos/ ... ite-wheel/

BUT, that is also rated at 65 - 70 MPH not standing still. My Case 646 tips the scales up there. Its has loaded rear tires 2 of 160 LBS 'combine' weights and more weight on the rear:


And I have stood the tractor up on the front tires many times with out issue. My 646 has power steering and has been modified to make the wider tires fit on the standard tractor: https://www.casecoltingersoll.com/threa ... 646.85567/

As far as manufacturer recommendations, here's a short point of view from Firestone, about front tires:

Rib Options for Front Tractor Tires

Single Rib – This pattern was designed for tractor that primarily operate in loose or wet/muddy soil conditions. The tall single rib develops excellent force when steering and there are no grooves to fill up with mud. With the single rib, it does wear out faster on paved surfaces because all the weight is being carried on the tall rib.

Three Rib – This pattern was designed for tractors that operate in a mixture of loose soils and paved surface. The taller center rib develops the force when steering in loose soil and the outside ribs help carry the load when operating on paved surfaces.This tread pattern is an excellent choice for most 2WD tractors without front-end loaders.

Four Rib – This pattern was designed for tractors that operate in a mixture of loose soils and paved surfaces and have a front-end loader. The four ribs develop the force when steering in soils and on paved surfaces while the constant rib height provide an even load distribution on hard surfaces. This even load distribution contributes to longer tire life on hard surfaces especially when used on tractors with front-end loaders. It should be noted with any loader application be sure to check the load capacity of the tire and compare with the front axle load of the tractor in combination with the loader and a full loader bucket.

Shallow Five Ribs – This pattern was designed for tractor and backhoes that operate mainly on paved surface and have a front-end loader. Operating on paved surfaces requires less rib height to prove a steer force and the larger number of ribs allow for a greater load distribution.

The excerpt comes from here:

https://commercial.firestone.com/en-us/ ... actor-tire


I read this a while ago and that made me try and find a good 3 rib or 4 rib tire. But lost interest because the original 644 tires seem to do just fine.

Here's my baby wearing her new shoes. Accomplishments in recent days:

Painted front wheels, installed 6-ply front tires.
236 lbs of antifreeze weight added to the rear tires.
Lug bolts to lug studs conversion completed.

4-link tire chains converted to 2-link tire chains.

One or two more leaf sucking sessions, and I'll be ready for the next surge of progress on the loader.

I really like the look of those beefy tires! You did a great job on all of these improvements Bob! Very nice indeed!

Bigger tires do look nice on it. I ran a 20.5 gc tire on my 6018 before. Worked just fine. The one thing that comes to mind. What is the power steering cylinder rated for? Yours has a 5/8" rod whereas the loaders have a 1" rod. Too much weight and forces against that steering cylinder rod and its gonna give.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

That's a good point. I suppose the smaller rod ends won't just snap, but they may wear at an accelerated rate. If that's how it ends up being, then I'll have to rebuild the steering linkage using heavier rod.

Let's hope not. But not a disaster if it happens.

Bob