HD front loader (GC) tires
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thebuildist
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HD front loader (GC) tires
As long as I was looking at tires, I returned to an unresolved issue for the loader I'm building: the front tires.
Fabbing a new front axle, I decided to go with standard 18X8.5-8 golf cart tires due to their high flotation characteristics. I figure if you're going to have a lot of weight hanging out front, you need to not sink your front wheels in the mud if you can help it.
Standard 4 ply GC tires are rated for around 900 lbs. Some state 870, some state 940. The set I bought I thought were 940 until I got them, where they clearly say 870.
So that means my front axle tires are rated for 1740lbs. Now if I pick up 1000 lbs in the bucket and have just enough counterweight that the back end JUST lifts off the ground, then I have 1000 in the front, 1000 in the rear, plus the normal weight of the tractor something like 2700 lbs all riding the front axle.
I suspect that tires will routinely exceed their rating without blowing out, so it's not necessarily a major problem. But if I could get heavier ply tires up there, I'd much rather. I looked for them a year ago when I was making design decisions and didn't find any that were any kind of normal price.
But I got looking again last week and found these:
https://www.prioritytire.com/duro-excel ... ason-tire/
They're 6 ply tires rated for 1250 lbs each. That uprates my front wheels to be rated for 2500 lbs, which is not too far from reality. With these tires I'll seldom if ever exceed their rating I have a couple old flat golf cart wheels, so I took off the old tire and painted the rims silver to match the Ingersoll paint scheme. I used my modified Harbor Freight tire changer to install the new tires. Kinda.
It turns out that GOLF CART TIRES ARE A HUGE PAIN TO CHANGE.
I've changed several types of tires using this tire changer. 14", 15", 16", and 17" radials, and LT tires off my 4x4, and it's surprising how relatively easy it is with this non-powered tool. You don't actually have to stretch the inner bead ring very much getting it over the rim. You just put one side of the ring down in the wheel's center deep groove, and tug/stretch the bead ring to a little bit oval shaped to get it to pop on. Hook the duck's head tool in the bead and spin it around, it's like magic.
But golf cart tires are awful!. They're built as strong and tough as regular car tires, but because the rim's base size is only 8" across, and because they're actually wider than the rim hole size, they have a tiny margin of stretch compared to larger tires.
You have to stretch their inner bead ring A LOT to get it oval enough to get over the wheel rim. And since the hole is so little, the duck's head tool doesn't even fit in there. And you can hardly get your hands and tools in there to do anything. And every time you DO start to get some stretch happening, the bead just slides back off the rim and you have to start over. It was very frustrating, but I eventually won the bitter battle.
If I never change another golf cart tire it'll be too soon.
End of rant.
Fabbing a new front axle, I decided to go with standard 18X8.5-8 golf cart tires due to their high flotation characteristics. I figure if you're going to have a lot of weight hanging out front, you need to not sink your front wheels in the mud if you can help it.
Standard 4 ply GC tires are rated for around 900 lbs. Some state 870, some state 940. The set I bought I thought were 940 until I got them, where they clearly say 870.
So that means my front axle tires are rated for 1740lbs. Now if I pick up 1000 lbs in the bucket and have just enough counterweight that the back end JUST lifts off the ground, then I have 1000 in the front, 1000 in the rear, plus the normal weight of the tractor something like 2700 lbs all riding the front axle.
I suspect that tires will routinely exceed their rating without blowing out, so it's not necessarily a major problem. But if I could get heavier ply tires up there, I'd much rather. I looked for them a year ago when I was making design decisions and didn't find any that were any kind of normal price.
But I got looking again last week and found these:
https://www.prioritytire.com/duro-excel ... ason-tire/
They're 6 ply tires rated for 1250 lbs each. That uprates my front wheels to be rated for 2500 lbs, which is not too far from reality. With these tires I'll seldom if ever exceed their rating I have a couple old flat golf cart wheels, so I took off the old tire and painted the rims silver to match the Ingersoll paint scheme. I used my modified Harbor Freight tire changer to install the new tires. Kinda.
It turns out that GOLF CART TIRES ARE A HUGE PAIN TO CHANGE.
I've changed several types of tires using this tire changer. 14", 15", 16", and 17" radials, and LT tires off my 4x4, and it's surprising how relatively easy it is with this non-powered tool. You don't actually have to stretch the inner bead ring very much getting it over the rim. You just put one side of the ring down in the wheel's center deep groove, and tug/stretch the bead ring to a little bit oval shaped to get it to pop on. Hook the duck's head tool in the bead and spin it around, it's like magic.
But golf cart tires are awful!. They're built as strong and tough as regular car tires, but because the rim's base size is only 8" across, and because they're actually wider than the rim hole size, they have a tiny margin of stretch compared to larger tires.
You have to stretch their inner bead ring A LOT to get it oval enough to get over the wheel rim. And since the hole is so little, the duck's head tool doesn't even fit in there. And you can hardly get your hands and tools in there to do anything. And every time you DO start to get some stretch happening, the bead just slides back off the rim and you have to start over. It was very frustrating, but I eventually won the bitter battle.
If I never change another golf cart tire it'll be too soon.
End of rant.
"Never be afraid to try something new. How hard can it be?"
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Eugen
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Re: HD front loader (GC) tires
Ouch! I have fought tires too, only armed with tire irons. I know the pain!
I'm surprised you didn't use trailer tires though.
I'm surprised you didn't use trailer tires though.
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DavidBarkey
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Re: HD front loader (GC) tires
I went with trailer tires which are taller but narrower because I needed them to "cut" in the dirt when working the garden and I don't have a deck interference issue to worry about . With a deck on taller trailer tires would interfere .
Dave
Dave
Dave
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thebuildist
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Re: HD front loader (GC) tires
In my relatively ignorant and uninformed opinion, trailer tires just seemed too narrow. Even the stock tires on a 646 just seemed too narrow to me. I think of a backhoe and they have those nice wide flotation tires so that that front end doesn't get buried when the ground gets soupy.
Now if I didn't have power steering then it would require greater effort to turn the steering wheel with that wide profile, especially under a load.
But I do have power steering and I'm presuming it will handle the job without any difficulty. So that's why I went this way.
But it's really easy to find trailer tires that are rated for this weight, so that is a big plus in the trailer tire corner.
Bob
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Gordy
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Re: HD front loader (GC) tires
To stop bead slip I use a vise grips on the rim, it also helps to force the bead down towards the center. But I generally am not worried about the paint either
Gordy
Gordy
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thebuildist
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Re: HD front loader (GC) tires
I ended up using a C clamp. Same idea, but easier on the paint.
Bob
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DavidBarkey
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Re: HD front loader (GC) tires
I do the same thing with a rag to minimize paint damage and have white and silver paint marking pens on hand all the time to do touch ups .
Dave
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Eugen
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Re: HD front loader (GC) tires
Dave made a good point why trailer wheels for you don't make sense, since you want to use the tractor for mowing too and would have clearance issues.thebuildist wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:11 pm
In my relatively ignorant and uninformed opinion, trailer tires just seemed too narrow. Even the stock tires on a 646 just seemed too narrow to me. I think of a backhoe and they have those nice wide flotation tires so that that front end doesn't get buried when the ground gets soupy.
Now if I didn't have power steering then it would require greater effort to turn the steering wheel with that wide profile, especially under a load.
But I do have power steering and I'm presuming it will handle the job without any difficulty. So that's why I went this way.
But it's really easy to find trailer tires that are rated for this weight, so that is a big plus in the trailer tire corner.
Bob
I can offer only my limited experience with the 644 that I got earlier in the year, and has original front tires. They do indeed seem fairly narrow, and I don't have power steering. I have used the tractor so far with bucket full of sand, and crushed lime stone, as well as for carrying various heavy objects. I know you like figures (numbers) but I don't have that, in terms of weight. Definitely far less than the 1000 lbs you're aiming for, perhaps my largest loads were around 500 - 700 lbs. Definitely steering with one hand at times was not something I would do, but at the same time I didn't feel that I had to pull on the steering wheel so hard that it was uncomfortable. As for soft ground or soupy as you say, I myself have avoided such working conditions, recognizing though that one cannot always avoid them. As I always say, it's best to do what you think you'll like best. I like the wider tires you're using!
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Harry
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Re: HD front loader (GC) tires
I put these on the front of my 646 from Miller Tire and noticed a big difference in steering. On my 644 I have the hoe on the back which makes it seem like power steering at times.
Keep the Peace
Harry
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Harry
1973 444, 1974 644, 1976 446, 1977 646, 1986 226
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sdunt
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Re: HD front loader (GC) tires
Well the 6 ply Trailer 18.5x8.50-8 tires on thr front of my 646 are rated at 935 pounds each: https://recstuff.com/tire-wheel-combos/ ... ite-wheel/
BUT, that is also rated at 65 - 70 MPH not standing still. My Case 646 tips the scales up there. Its has loaded rear tires 2 of 160 LBS 'combine' weights and more weight on the rear:

And I have stood the tractor up on the front tires many times with out issue. My 646 has power steering and has been modified to make the wider tires fit on the standard tractor: https://www.casecoltingersoll.com/threa ... 646.85567/
BUT, that is also rated at 65 - 70 MPH not standing still. My Case 646 tips the scales up there. Its has loaded rear tires 2 of 160 LBS 'combine' weights and more weight on the rear:
And I have stood the tractor up on the front tires many times with out issue. My 646 has power steering and has been modified to make the wider tires fit on the standard tractor: https://www.casecoltingersoll.com/threa ... 646.85567/