You probably looked at this manual already. Doesn't look like it has all the details you need though.
https://www.rottmansales.com/wp-content ... 8-3200.pdf
Adding a spool valve
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Eugen
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Re: Adding a spool valve
https://manuals.ccigt.com/More/Case-Ing ... -Valve.pdf
Try this manual. This should get you what your after. Its not for the newer valves with holding feature but I'm not sure there's another that's closer.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Try this manual. This should get you what your after. Its not for the newer valves with holding feature but I'm not sure there's another that's closer.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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thebuildist
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Re: Adding a spool valve
Thank you, gentlemen!
Turns out either of those manuals had what I needed, and it looks like I do have things correctly installed.
Tomorrow I work on my little dogleg extension from the PB port back and to the left to get it out from inside of the frame channel. And from there carry on the pressure line to where the new loader valve will be.
And then I work on reconfiguring the return to tank lines, as the return hose from the PS valve used to dump into where the PB sleeve is now, and I also need to configure a return line from the new loader valve to the tank. So I'll basically just clean-sheet re-think the entire return to tank system.
Bob
Turns out either of those manuals had what I needed, and it looks like I do have things correctly installed.
Tomorrow I work on my little dogleg extension from the PB port back and to the left to get it out from inside of the frame channel. And from there carry on the pressure line to where the new loader valve will be.
And then I work on reconfiguring the return to tank lines, as the return hose from the PS valve used to dump into where the PB sleeve is now, and I also need to configure a return line from the new loader valve to the tank. So I'll basically just clean-sheet re-think the entire return to tank system.
Bob
"Never be afraid to try something new. How hard can it be?"
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thebuildist
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Re: Adding a spool valve
I'm making some progress on the hydraulic reconfig.
Because the main pressure feed line will be redirected, it's essentially a complete redesign of the system.
In the old design there are three lines connected to the TCV: the high pressure feed line from the pump, the big low pressure return-to-tank line heading up to the oil cooler, and lastly a small low pressure line from the power steering valve connected to the TCV at the point marked, "PB" where it dumps the ps valve's return-to-tank oil into the low pressure side of the TCV, sort of using the TCV as a tee. From there that oil joins the other low pressure oil heading off on its way, first through the oil cooler, then through the oil filter, and finally into the tank.
I can use the magic of Gimp to illustrate:
In the new design, there will again be 3 lines attached to the TCV: The high pressure feed line from the pump, as before. A new high pressure feed line leaving the TCV's new power beyond port, heading outboard to underneath the right side foot rest. And a new low pressure line leaving from the old return to tank port, heading up to join into the newly created return-to-tank manifold.
At rest position, the high pressure oil entering the TCV will all pass through and exit via the new power beyond port, where it will make its way underneath the right hand footrest and ultimately arriving at a quick disconnect of in front of it.
With the travel spool activated, the high pressure oil will head from the TCV to the travel motor and cause the tractor to move. The return oil from the motor will then make its way out the power beyond port. So whether the tractor is in motion or not, there is always flow out of the power beyond port and therefore always some pressure available at the quick disconnect in front of the right footrest. Using the loader while the tractor is in motion will cause the pressure to be split between the two functions. So the tractor will slow down while the bucket raises or whatever, but neither will be completely starved of flow.
With the lift spool activated, the oil heads out of one of the lift ports, through the lift cylinder, back into the other lift port, and is then dumped into the new return to tank line. So the new return to tank line can be much smaller than before, because it only has to handle oil coming from the lift cylinder, and only when the cylinder is actually moving. Most of the time there will be no flow in that line at all.
So we now have two small lines and one large line that all need to be connected to return-to-tank: The original small return line from the power steering valve, the new small return line from the TCV, and large line that will be coming, via a second quick disconnect, from the loader valve.
Due to space constraints and the way things are arranged in the tower, I have changed the return oil flow a little bit. All return oil will enter a half inch NPT pipe built-up manifold at the forward edge of the right side tower access panel. From there it will pass through the oil filter, and then through the oil cooler before turning to go straight up into the bottom of the tank.
It seems to me that there's a lot more space to work and better access in the tower with this new configuration than there was before. So that's a big plus.
In the original config, the hot return oil went through the cooler before it passed through the filter. Now it will now go through the filter first and then through the cooler. I think that's a better situation, because the oil is less viscous when it's hotter, allowing it to make its way through the filter that much easier. Due to the combined effects of pre-cooled oil passing through an undersized filter head, I strongly suspect that in the factory configuration a lot of the oil is actually bypassing the filter itself and just dumping through the filter head's relief valve straight into the tank. I documented elsewhere that I've increased the size of the filter head and increased the GPM capacity of the filter itself. So I really do think that the majority of the oil will now actually pass through the filter elements, which should be a benefit to the system overall.
The built-up manifold consists of a regular half inch NPT tee that will be connected to the new return side quick disconnect, and a small pipe nipple onto which I've welded two JIC6 male stubs.
(If you want welds that look THIS good, you'll have to hire me! 
)
The two smaller return lines will screw onto those JIC 6 fittings, and the half inch line with the quick disconnect will just stick out of the right side of the tower. I will modify the tower access cover, cutting out a u-shaped area so that pipe can stick out there.
So now there will be two quick disconnects in the vicinity of the right side footrest: a lower outer one that will be pressure supply, and a upper inner one that will be low pressure return. With the loader attached, you will just hook up two hoses to the new loader valve. One supply and one return. With the loader detached, you will have to hook up a loop back hose from the supply qd directly to the return qd. So it'll be a little bit like a PTO valve: either the loader valve needs to be hooked up or the loop back hose needs to be hooked up to give that high pressure flow a way to make it back to the tank.
If you forget to hook up that loop back hose, then all of the pressure side fluid will have to make its way through the TCVs pressure relief valve back to tank. It seems like it would be pretty hard to get the tractor to start in that condition, and if it happens while the tractor's running, I think it's going to make a loud unpleasant squealing noise! But there should be minimal if any risk of damage or injury in either case.
The high pressure side's pressure relief will now be controlled either by the setting on the TCV or the setting on the loader valve, whichever is lower. I'll have to tweak the TCV's main pressure relief upward a little bit if I find that my bucket tilt-back force is too weak for my satisfaction. I'm confident that every other function should have plenty of strength at 2100 PSI.
Half inch NPT pipe and fittings are plenty strong for the return side, since it will never see more than about 20 PSI under any circumstances.
For the supply side, I'll come out of the TCV with a short hose just for vibration damping purposes, and from there run half inch NPT pipe. Half inch black iron pipe is good for at least 5,000 PSI or thereabout. The weak point is the off-the-shelf iron fittings which are only good for about 300 psi. But I've picked up some heavy carbon steel NPT fittings that are good for 4,000 PSI. So I'll run standard 1/2 pipe and use those heavy fittings.
I'll route the lines under the foot rest but above the loader cross member.
By using the steel pipe, it has enough strength and structure all of its own to support the free-floating quick disconnect without having to manufacture a bracket to attach it to. On the return side l'll manufacture a bracket that will bolt to the tower and hold onto the pipe/disconnect, because otherwise I'd be asking the aluminum filter housing to support that weight and torque and vibration. And that's not going to hold up long term.
It's not all done yet. But I now have a clear vision for where it's going and it's nothing but the process of finishing it up. I'm starting to get excited!
Because the main pressure feed line will be redirected, it's essentially a complete redesign of the system.
In the old design there are three lines connected to the TCV: the high pressure feed line from the pump, the big low pressure return-to-tank line heading up to the oil cooler, and lastly a small low pressure line from the power steering valve connected to the TCV at the point marked, "PB" where it dumps the ps valve's return-to-tank oil into the low pressure side of the TCV, sort of using the TCV as a tee. From there that oil joins the other low pressure oil heading off on its way, first through the oil cooler, then through the oil filter, and finally into the tank.
I can use the magic of Gimp to illustrate:
In the new design, there will again be 3 lines attached to the TCV: The high pressure feed line from the pump, as before. A new high pressure feed line leaving the TCV's new power beyond port, heading outboard to underneath the right side foot rest. And a new low pressure line leaving from the old return to tank port, heading up to join into the newly created return-to-tank manifold.
With the lift spool activated, the oil heads out of one of the lift ports, through the lift cylinder, back into the other lift port, and is then dumped into the new return to tank line. So the new return to tank line can be much smaller than before, because it only has to handle oil coming from the lift cylinder, and only when the cylinder is actually moving. Most of the time there will be no flow in that line at all.
So we now have two small lines and one large line that all need to be connected to return-to-tank: The original small return line from the power steering valve, the new small return line from the TCV, and large line that will be coming, via a second quick disconnect, from the loader valve.
Due to space constraints and the way things are arranged in the tower, I have changed the return oil flow a little bit. All return oil will enter a half inch NPT pipe built-up manifold at the forward edge of the right side tower access panel. From there it will pass through the oil filter, and then through the oil cooler before turning to go straight up into the bottom of the tank.
In the original config, the hot return oil went through the cooler before it passed through the filter. Now it will now go through the filter first and then through the cooler. I think that's a better situation, because the oil is less viscous when it's hotter, allowing it to make its way through the filter that much easier. Due to the combined effects of pre-cooled oil passing through an undersized filter head, I strongly suspect that in the factory configuration a lot of the oil is actually bypassing the filter itself and just dumping through the filter head's relief valve straight into the tank. I documented elsewhere that I've increased the size of the filter head and increased the GPM capacity of the filter itself. So I really do think that the majority of the oil will now actually pass through the filter elements, which should be a benefit to the system overall.
The built-up manifold consists of a regular half inch NPT tee that will be connected to the new return side quick disconnect, and a small pipe nipple onto which I've welded two JIC6 male stubs.
)The two smaller return lines will screw onto those JIC 6 fittings, and the half inch line with the quick disconnect will just stick out of the right side of the tower. I will modify the tower access cover, cutting out a u-shaped area so that pipe can stick out there.
If you forget to hook up that loop back hose, then all of the pressure side fluid will have to make its way through the TCVs pressure relief valve back to tank. It seems like it would be pretty hard to get the tractor to start in that condition, and if it happens while the tractor's running, I think it's going to make a loud unpleasant squealing noise! But there should be minimal if any risk of damage or injury in either case.
The high pressure side's pressure relief will now be controlled either by the setting on the TCV or the setting on the loader valve, whichever is lower. I'll have to tweak the TCV's main pressure relief upward a little bit if I find that my bucket tilt-back force is too weak for my satisfaction. I'm confident that every other function should have plenty of strength at 2100 PSI.
Half inch NPT pipe and fittings are plenty strong for the return side, since it will never see more than about 20 PSI under any circumstances.
For the supply side, I'll come out of the TCV with a short hose just for vibration damping purposes, and from there run half inch NPT pipe. Half inch black iron pipe is good for at least 5,000 PSI or thereabout. The weak point is the off-the-shelf iron fittings which are only good for about 300 psi. But I've picked up some heavy carbon steel NPT fittings that are good for 4,000 PSI. So I'll run standard 1/2 pipe and use those heavy fittings.
I'll route the lines under the foot rest but above the loader cross member.
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Last edited by thebuildist on Fri May 20, 2022 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Never be afraid to try something new. How hard can it be?"
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Eugen
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Re: Adding a spool valve
Bob, I'm trying to understand everything you've explained here... Hm.. Yeah, no. You're on your own buddy, but I think you're doing just fine! 
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Spike188
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Re: Adding a spool valve
@thebuildist Bob, Thanks for taking the time to write the illustrated writeup. Even for an experienced hydraulic mechanic there is a lot to digest in your last post.
One concern that you pointed out is that black pipe fittings can only be used the return/low pressure side of the system. This because black pipe fittings have a rated working pressure of 150psi. Case, Colt, Ingersoll systems have a working pressure in excess of 2500psi and are capable of hitting 4000psi.
[url][www.grainger.ca/en/product/p/GGM1LTV7/url]
The fitting pictured here is a standard box store fitting and has a pressure rating of 150psi. In industrial hydraulic applications, black pipe fittings will not be used on the low pressure side. This is because someone somewhere, sometime, will make a system modification down stream on the low pressure side that will turn it into high pressure.
Keep safe,
Spike
One concern that you pointed out is that black pipe fittings can only be used the return/low pressure side of the system. This because black pipe fittings have a rated working pressure of 150psi. Case, Colt, Ingersoll systems have a working pressure in excess of 2500psi and are capable of hitting 4000psi.
The fitting pictured here is a standard box store fitting and has a pressure rating of 150psi. In industrial hydraulic applications, black pipe fittings will not be used on the low pressure side. This is because someone somewhere, sometime, will make a system modification down stream on the low pressure side that will turn it into high pressure.
Keep safe,
Spike
Spike Colt - 9 & 10, Case - 108, 118, 444, 446, 448, 646, 646bh, Ingersoll 4016, 4118AH
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thebuildist
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Re: Adding a spool valve
Spike,
I can appreciate where you're coming from. It does seem obvious enough that in a commercial setting I'd be ill advised to set it up this way. But as soon as you make the decision to change the factory configuration at all, you're in uncharted territory and you're going to have to face whatever ramifications your decisions involve.
The reason I researched the black pipe at all, is because I couldn't help but notice that it's meaningfully thicker than the (expensive!) hydraulic hard line stock that I had purchased from the local hydraulics shop. A little googling revealed the strength limits of the black pipe itself and the lack of strength of the off-the-shelf fittings. And that's why I take the time to describe why this material choice is okay on the return side and NOT okay on the supply side.
There's no question hydraulics can be dangerous. I learned that the first time I ever got injected by my airless paint sprayer. It shot a stream of latex house paint into my left thumb so fast I didn't even know it had happened. I look down and it had swelled up like a cartoon! But that's all the more reason I think that a cookie cutter approach can be dangerous as well. Whether a product is labeled "hydraulic" or not, every component of the system needs to be chosen for its sizing/flow, for its functional/operational properties and for its requisite strength.
And that's part of the reason I'm going through and writing it up and documenting it. Both because it helps me think clearly, that in the act of explaining it I have to really think it through with all of its interconnected and sometimes complicated pieces.
And because a lot of people have a similar aspiration as me: a whole lot of people would love to build a loader for their little tractor. I figured by documenting it I can give people a realistic idea of what it'll take to accomplish it, and give them some basic guidance of what it's going to look like from a mechanical/hydraulic standpoint. And I can give them some idea of the various factors that go into the decision making: The physical layout of the parts, the materials used to connect the parts, but above all the reasons why a specific type of material or a specific layout is appropriate.
And I'm not really thinking solely of the immediate audience here. Most of us on this message thread already have a loader or the know-how to do it ourselves. But forums like this are visible on the web and will be found by people who are curious and looking for information. So the documentation is kind of for them.
Thanks again for the important "heads up".
Bob
I can appreciate where you're coming from. It does seem obvious enough that in a commercial setting I'd be ill advised to set it up this way. But as soon as you make the decision to change the factory configuration at all, you're in uncharted territory and you're going to have to face whatever ramifications your decisions involve.
The reason I researched the black pipe at all, is because I couldn't help but notice that it's meaningfully thicker than the (expensive!) hydraulic hard line stock that I had purchased from the local hydraulics shop. A little googling revealed the strength limits of the black pipe itself and the lack of strength of the off-the-shelf fittings. And that's why I take the time to describe why this material choice is okay on the return side and NOT okay on the supply side.
There's no question hydraulics can be dangerous. I learned that the first time I ever got injected by my airless paint sprayer. It shot a stream of latex house paint into my left thumb so fast I didn't even know it had happened. I look down and it had swelled up like a cartoon! But that's all the more reason I think that a cookie cutter approach can be dangerous as well. Whether a product is labeled "hydraulic" or not, every component of the system needs to be chosen for its sizing/flow, for its functional/operational properties and for its requisite strength.
And that's part of the reason I'm going through and writing it up and documenting it. Both because it helps me think clearly, that in the act of explaining it I have to really think it through with all of its interconnected and sometimes complicated pieces.
And because a lot of people have a similar aspiration as me: a whole lot of people would love to build a loader for their little tractor. I figured by documenting it I can give people a realistic idea of what it'll take to accomplish it, and give them some basic guidance of what it's going to look like from a mechanical/hydraulic standpoint. And I can give them some idea of the various factors that go into the decision making: The physical layout of the parts, the materials used to connect the parts, but above all the reasons why a specific type of material or a specific layout is appropriate.
And I'm not really thinking solely of the immediate audience here. Most of us on this message thread already have a loader or the know-how to do it ourselves. But forums like this are visible on the web and will be found by people who are curious and looking for information. So the documentation is kind of for them.
Thanks again for the important "heads up".
Bob
"Never be afraid to try something new. How hard can it be?"
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thebuildist
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Re: Adding a spool valve
More progress, coming fast and furious now.
Here's a look at the final PB sleeve
what it looks like installed in the valve
And what it looks like installed in the tractor:
You're laying on your back with your feet sticking straight out the right side of the tractor. You can see the new PB fitting and hose in the background, highlighted by the green circle.
You can just see the letters "PB" on the valve body.
See how that PB fitting is right up against the frame rail? It barely fits in there. If I were the manufacturer, I'd weld in some beefy reinforcement and cut a hole in the frame rail so that that PB pressure line could stick right out through the frame rail and out underneath the right hand foot rest. That's where it's heading anyway. But I don't dare risk weaking the frame in that way, so we make the special angled PB sleeve, and go from the sleeve straight to a flexible hose so that we can curl over and down and get our pressure feed line out of the frame cavity and out to where we need it.
Assuming there are no major leaks, this part of the work is all finished.
Moving on, I have the TCV's new return-to-tank line completed.
It's only about a 9.5" run, and I had intended to just use hose clamps and some 3/8" rubber hose, but I got thinking: every time I bottom out one of the bucket cylinders it will trip the pressure relief valve and have to dump all 9 gpm of flow straight to the new return line. Even though there's very little resistance to allowing the oil to get back into the tank, I am necking down a 5/8" line to a 3/8" line, so that will represent some meaningful resistance to entering that line. So just to be on the safe side, I piped in the new line with 3/8 hard line. It was a real pain getting it all curved and twisted into place, but it's done now.
Looking underneath you can see (in the lower right of the picture ) my new DIY JIC-12female X JIC-6 male adapter. I machined up a JIC6 male fitting stub, and then turned its shaft to where it fits snugly inside the old 7/8" hard line return pipe, and then silver (hard) soldered it in. (This is not "silver bearing" plumbing solder, it's what used to be called "hard solder". It has a lot of silver content, but it's closer to brazing than soldering.) It should be good for at least 2000psi, and it'll never see more than about 20 or 30psi, so that should be good to go.
And finally for today, here's the new return manifold with both the new TCV return line and the PS return line attached. It's a little tight getting a wrench in there, but no worse than the other hydro fittings up inside the tower.
Tomorrow I work on re-hooking up the various parts to the TCV and running the new high pressure line.
Then while I'm down here I'll go ahead and upgrade the TCV linkage, since once I have the loader crossmember bolted back in place it's even harder to get up into this area than normal.
And normal is no picnic, right?
Bob
Here's a look at the final PB sleeve
You can just see the letters "PB" on the valve body.
Assuming there are no major leaks, this part of the work is all finished.
Moving on, I have the TCV's new return-to-tank line completed.
And finally for today, here's the new return manifold with both the new TCV return line and the PS return line attached. It's a little tight getting a wrench in there, but no worse than the other hydro fittings up inside the tower.
Then while I'm down here I'll go ahead and upgrade the TCV linkage, since once I have the loader crossmember bolted back in place it's even harder to get up into this area than normal.
And normal is no picnic, right?
Bob
"Never be afraid to try something new. How hard can it be?"
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DavidBarkey
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Re: Adding a spool valve
Nice work Bob . Thanks for documenting it . It will help me a lot when I get back to Building Frankie 2.
Dave
Dave
Dave
Mad Tractor Builder
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Harry
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Re: Adding a spool valve
Certainly, a lot of work Bob. I know the 600 series do not come up for sale, but all the more reason to purchase them when they are available! I applaud your diligence and ingenuity on your project.
Keep the Peace
Harry
Keep the Peace
Harry
1973 444, 1974 644, 1976 446, 1977 646, 1986 226