So it's winter guys and ethanol gas keeps coing up on our sister site

[ras101]

So, getting old, yeah 75 in 2 days! Been in this game for as long as remember too (owned Case tractors (# now) since 20070 Our sister site keeps bring up oil types etc, and also gas too. Keeps hitting me hard! got to9 tell you there have been sooooo many discussions in every forum I have been on and what's worse than repeating myself is that NONE takes the time to search the forum for answers before asking the same question, period! So lets start:

Ethanol gas: ethanol should NEVER be used in carbonated engines produced before 2008. The aluminum used in the carburetor does not support that and will most definitely corrode especially if the GT is used during the winter! You will hear many "stories" here about using additives but just know NON work!! Ethanol was never meant for corroborated engines and frankly no engines. All our GT's need ethanol free gas but unfortunately only a few of us have access to gas stations that sell it. Even engines produced after 2008, I have/had a 2010 B&S Vanguard that corroded within 5 months with ethanol gas and the moment I changed no issues whatever!

The second issue is hydraulic fluid (really oil!).. I have heard several comments about this especially about changing oil summer/winter, etc. just know I change my hydraulic oil about every 2-3 years max and not by season. Yeah I have dedicated GT's for use in the winter and summer. Even then my goal is TORQUE only. If you, like me, live in the Northern states (WNY) where temperatures go down to minus figures then synthetic oils are a must to maintain easy starting but also torque to operate a snow blower, etc. Unless you have heated storage for your GT (I don't) than starting will be an issue too, etc. Besides that, using a snow blower puts major and often constant torque on an engine too. For me I want a hydraulic oil that and I look to provide enough power to support my snow blowing so use Synthetic such as Mobile ! 5/50) etc. The lower the first number means easier starting and the higher the second gives you available torque. Its really your choice what yo use and how's advise you follow too. Good luck on who you decide to follow here

[Eugen]

I honestly never understood why some normal 32 weight hydraulic oil would not be ok to use as hydraulic oil for our tractors. Does anyone know what the downsides would be?

[ras101]

So I posted this on our sister site a few years back:

"When you see a W on a viscosity rating it means that this oil viscosity has been tested at a Colder temperature. The numbers without the W are all tested at 210° F or 100° C which is considered an approximation of engine operating temperature. In other words, a SAE 30 motor oil is the same viscosity as a 10w-30 or 5W-30 at 210° (100° C). The difference is when the viscosity is tested at a much colder temperature. For example, a 5W-30 motor oil performs like a SAE 5 motor oil would perform at the cold temperature specified, but still has the SAE 30 viscosity at 210° F (100° C) which is engine operating temperature. This allows the engine to get quick oil flow when it is started cold verses dry running until lubricant either warms up sufficiently or is finally forced through the engine oil system. The advantages of a low W viscosity number is obvious. The quicker the oil flows cold, the less dry running. Less dry running means much less engine wear."

So that being said, wasn't the reason for the lighter weight oil to allow easier oil flow when the hydraulics are cold (below 32 degrees) and as the oil warms the viscosity increases until it reaches it's operating temperature (? degrees). So if that is the case does not the initial viscosity equal the temperature of the oil based upon the ambient temperature of the surroundings - hence if you have an unheated garage vs heated the initial viscosity of the oil will be different at start. During summer is it not true to say that the hotter the surrounding temperature the higher the starting viscosity to the maximum of 40 SAE if the multi-grade oil is 5-40 SAE?

Therefore doesn't 5-40 SAE act just like 5-20 SAE at say 10F and just like 15-40 at 100F?.

As the oil temperature increases through work the outside ambient temperature has less and less influence on the viscosity and therefore running 5-40 SAE throughout the year meets both the summer and winter needs.
Ray

[Eugen]

Having a look at this chart satisfies my curiosity about using "regular" 32 or 46 hydraulic oil instead of the 20w40 or 15w40 that Case Ingersoll recommends. The viscosity of ISO VG 32 or 46 is simply lower than that of 20w40 or 15w40. It was just curiosity for me, as I use 15w40 diesel engine oil from Walmart in my Case hydraulics.

My next question: is it warranted to use 5w40 at very low winter temperatures as hydraulic oil? Even though there are no components in the hydraulic system that really rub against each other like piston rings against the cylinder wall in an engine?

[oliver244]

While hydraulic systems don't have metal to metal components rubbing against each other constantly, they have very close fitting components. The gears in hydraulic pumps "can have metal to metal contact and that's what your oil is there to prevent.

[Eugen]

While hydraulic systems don't have metal to metal components rubbing against each other constantly, they have very close fitting components. The gears in hydraulic pumps "can have metal to metal contact and that's what your oil is there to prevent.

Yes, this is true. But my understanding of why a better flowing oil is used in the winter in engines is because when the engine is started, there is no oil on many surfaces of the engine which rub against each other, and it takes some time for the oil to make it there. A thick oil is especially harder to be pushed through and arrive where it's needed. If you look for information why the most wear happens in engines when started cold, that's the kind of stuff that comes up. As far as I can tell, by the position of the hydraulic pump, it always has some oil in it and metal to metal rubbing should never really happen if you're not short on oil.

I can see though that using a 5w40 oil will flow better through the hydraulic system when it's really cold outside and the pump will not put as much effort as when using a 20w40 or 15w40 oil.

When it's freezing outside I usually start the engine at a lower RPM and let it run for a little while so the engine warms up a little, and the hydraulic oil also gets warmed up. I can tell the difference clearly if I try to lift the loader or snowcaster with cold hydraulic oil, it can even stop the engine. But I use 15w40 in the winter too. That being said, if 5w40 would be easy to find/cheap and if I thought it made a huge difference I would probably use it in the winter and switch to 15w40 in the summer. But that's just me, I'm not too fussy about these things.

[ras101]

So guys, much as I think these are worthy discussions we now have three different ones here and all are getting intermixed.

The original was talking about Ethanol in gas.

Second branched into Hydraulic Oil

Third started talking about Engine oils

The only thing that relates all three is WINTER.

I think we need to split these discussions?

[Eugen]

So guys, much as I think these are worthy discussions we now have three different ones here and all are getting intermixed.

The original was talking about Ethanol in gas.

Second branched into Hydraulic Oil

Third started talking about Engine oils

The only thing that relates all three is WINTER.

I think we need to split these discussions?

Well, that's a good idea Ray, but I'm having a hard time splitting the discussion into three different ones because we have posts that cover all three subjects, including your initial posting. Not sure what can be done.

[MattA]

I've been running mobil 1 full synthetic 5w-40 in my hydraulic system for 3-4 years now with no complaints. My garage is also about 20F in the winter. I believe I have 5w-30 full synthetic in my Vanguard as recommended. Upgrading to a 300CCA battery certainly sped up the engine cranking speed year round.

Synthetic oil has a more stable viscosity over its operating temp range and lifespan than conventional oil. If you YouTube cold temp pour point tests, you can see how much better it is.