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Back to the 444 that wouldn't start
Posted: Tue May 03, 2022 12:44 pm
by Eugen
I had prepared this 444 for winter duty at some point, hooked up the snowcaster, and behold, two weeks later when we got dumped a bunch of snow it wouldn't start. Like always, me juggling a million things, had no time to chase the reason why it would crank, had good spark, yet it wouldn't start. So I left it there and proceeded to clean the snow with the walk behind
Whatever got into me today, pulled out a hose and blew into the gas tank, creating pressure and priming the pump. Low and behold, the nasty little thing came right back to life. This is the barn find that was in amazingly poor shape on the outside, pretty much covered in long composted cow dung, but which seems to have a really strong and not tired engine. I think it'll get promoted to do some mowing!!!
It still needs beautifying of course...
Re: Back to the 444 that wouldn't start
Posted: Tue May 03, 2022 4:20 pm
by propane1
You’ll have to try that trick I mentioned a while ago, when it won’t start.
Noel
Re: Back to the 444 that wouldn't start
Posted: Tue May 03, 2022 4:32 pm
by Eugen
Propane57 wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 4:20 pm
You’ll have to try that trick I mentioned a while ago, when it won’t start.
Noel
If you mean starter fluid, I tried, and it runs for a bit, then stops. Tried it many times, no go. Until I pushed air into the gas tank to make some gas come out the hose that goes into the carb (just disconnected it for the procedure), it would not keep on running.
Is there another trick?
Re: Back to the 444 that wouldn't start
Posted: Tue May 03, 2022 5:12 pm
by propane1
No fuel pump ?
Noel
Re: Back to the 444 that wouldn't start
Posted: Tue May 03, 2022 5:24 pm
by Eugen
Propane57 wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 5:12 pm
No fuel pump ?
Noel
It has a fuel pump, the Kohler k321. Or what do you mean?
Re: Back to the 444 that wouldn't start
Posted: Tue May 03, 2022 6:51 pm
by thebuildist
I've come to accept that the main fuel hose needs to be replaced at about 10 years as a standard maintenance item. I think what happens is that old dried out rubber allow air incursion, which either leads to losing pump priming and zero fuel draw, or at the least air bubbles mixed into the fuel, which leads to general performance issues.
To me, it's counter-intuitive. I don't know why such a hose doesn't sit and leak the liquid out, but allows air ingress. That doesn't seem possible. But I've recently seen multiple examples where replacing an old dry fuel line instantly solved fuel and performance problems. So just because I don't understand it doesn't mean it isn't true.
Bob
Re: Back to the 444 that wouldn't start
Posted: Tue May 03, 2022 8:09 pm
by MattA
Maybe you had a little water in the fuel system and it froze?
Re: Back to the 444 that wouldn't start
Posted: Tue May 03, 2022 9:30 pm
by Eugen
@MattA maybe, but I cranked it quite a while with the starting fluid, and while it would start, it would die shortly.
Besides Bob's good suggestion, there may have been another problem. Perhaps there's crud in the gas tank that gathered at the location where the gas leaves the tank to go down the hose. I never opened a Case GT gas tank so I have no idea what it looks like. On the bigger tractor there's a screen that can get plugged with crud. After I pushed air through the hose into the gas tank to bubble around the gas somewhat, and then also blew into it while closing the upper hole as much as I could, gas did come out the hose that goes to the carb. I guess I did push some gas right through the pump too.
After all that, I connected the fuel line on the carb and it started right up.
@thebuildist I will replace the fuel line coming from the tank, as I do have some on hand and this must be as old as the tractor itself so , it makes sense to do it. Hopefully it'll solve the hard starting after the long sitting.
Re: Back to the 444 that wouldn't start
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 3:16 am
by propane1
I guess that’s why I asked , if there was a fuel pump. I just sounded like there was none. You pushed the gas through the fuel pump.
Any way. Seems strange that putting air pressure into the tank would fix it. Have to leave it for a number of days and try it again.
You may have to hook up a hose to the tank and each time you start the tractor you’ll have to blow into the hose.
I’m a great help, ain’t I.
Noel
Re: Back to the 444 that wouldn't start
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 6:44 am
by DavidBarkey
Eugen wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 9:30 pm
@MattA maybe, but I cranked it quite a while with the starting fluid, and while it would start, it would die shortly.
Besides Bob's good suggestion, there may have been another problem. Perhaps there's crud in the gas tank that gathered at the location where the gas leaves the tank to go down the hose. I never opened a Case GT gas tank so I have no idea what it looks like. On the bigger tractor there's a screen that can get plugged with crud. After I pushed air through the hose into the gas tank to bubble around the gas somewhat, and then also blew into it while closing the upper hole as much as I could, gas did come out the hose that goes to the carb. I guess I did push some gas right through the pump too.
After all that, I connected the fuel line on the carb and it started right up.
@thebuildist I will replace the fuel line coming from the tank, as I do have some on hand and this must be as old as the tractor itself so , it makes sense to do it. Hopefully it'll solve the hard starting after the long sitting.
All of the above are all cause I see with riders. Understanding that fluid is thicker than air . At the engine end the connection are usually higher that the tank , so no pressure to push out fuel . But the vacuum created by the pump will pull in air at week connection , plus any debris at the tank screen or in the line will only increase the air intrusion . This is also why I prefer to have a filter before the pump , if you need to pressure prime for any reason debris will not end up in your pump valves or carb .
Dave