Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

Posted: **Sat Feb 12, 2022 9:14 am**

Secondary alternator to runn all the extra stuff I want in the cab , defroster , wipers ,elec. chute controls , butt warmer pad , lighting . Is it possible to add a small tractor style internally regulated alternator to a Case ? All compact tractor I have seen a an alternator like this .

Since moving the battery to under the seat and the tank being over the cooler on this one I have a large still unused space over the pump and bracket. I can see where a K301 could be easily set up with one . What I am thinking is to attach a pulley to the lovejoy on the engine side . In would involve mounting the alternator to one side and an idler to the other side to clear the top of the bracket . Ya changing the belt would involve some

but no more so than a spider. A good quality belt should last many years . @Propane57 just rambling on .

Dave

Posted: **Sat Feb 12, 2022 10:12 am**

Good ramble Dave. I was thinking of one of those small alternators for some thing yesterday. Hehe. Forgot what for today.
You could use one of those belts that lock together like a hay escalator chain. Forget what those belts are called.

Noel

Link belt I think it is called.

Posted: **Sat Feb 12, 2022 10:17 am**

I call that "thinking out loud" add a little "talking to yourself" and you will get it figured out.

Can you get a pulley in there, or are you going to have to pull the motor again?

Posted: **Sat Feb 12, 2022 1:23 pm**

Propane57 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 10:12 am Good ramble Dave. I was thinking of one of those small alternators for some thing yesterday. Hehe. Forgot what for today.
You could use one of those belts that lock together like a hay escalator chain. Forget what those belts are called.

Noel

Link belt I think it is called.

I've used the link belts a lot on my electric motor-powered tools in my shop. They are a quieter than rubber belts. I had a rubber belt on my wood furnace blower fan, and it made a fair amount of noise. Change it to a link belt and I can hardly hear it. It's also nice to make the size to the application.

Keep the Peace
Harry

Posted: **Sat Feb 12, 2022 3:46 pm**

Timj wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 10:17 am I call that "thinking out loud" add a little "talking to yourself" and you will get it figured out.

Can you get a pulley in there, or are you going to have to pull the motor again?

That would involve pulling the motor again . I need a face palm emogi because I am not aloud to bang my head anymore . It would seam that my heavy metal days are behind me now .

Dave

Posted: **Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:24 am**

Anyone got one of these ???

Posted: **Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:42 pm**

I'll check what I have, might not be exactly like that but I got one.

Posted: **Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:56 pm**

I was literally morning to night running around like crazy with stuff that needed to be done the last few days, so I suffered seeing such great topic get under way and me watch it from the benches.

Great idea Dave, more power is great when you got a cab, but yeah, where is the alternator and belt and pulley going to go? Tight spaces.

If anyone's gonna do it, you'll find a way. If i were you I think I'd have tried to find room for the pulley and alternator on the fan side.

You know what they say, never ignore your fans!

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 1:20 am**

Dave,

I have not had to mess with the lovejoys, but I understand the crankshaft is only 1" or 1.125" long and the lovejoy must take up most of that. So the question is how do you intend on mounting a pulley in there? My first thought is to find or make a hubless pulley and weld it to the lovejoy, like the sprockets at Tractor Supply, pick the sprocket you need then pick the hub you need and weld the 2 together. Or find a pulley with a large enough bore to fit the outside of the lovejoy, then cut a keyway on the outside of the lovejoy.

Gordy

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:41 am**

And here gentlemen witness the coming into existence of a new part : the pullovejoy

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:17 am**

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:56 pm I was literally morning to night running around like crazy with stuff that needed to be done the last few days, so I suffered seeing such great topic get under way and me watch it from the benches.

Great idea Dave, more power is great when you got a cab, but yeah, where is the alternator and belt and pulley going to go? Tight spaces.

If anyone's gonna do it, you'll find a way. If i were you I think I'd have tried to find room for the pulley and alternator on the fan side. You know what they say, never ignore your fans!

Due to this tractor having the hydra tank over the cooler and relocating the battery to below the seat (I was going to put a oil cooler there where the battery to act as a cab heater but change my mind ) I now have lots of room above the bracket / hydra pump. Just need there newer style pump bracket and install a pulley on the engine side lovejoy connector .

Dave

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:19 am**

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:41 am And here gentlemen witness the coming into existence of a new part : the pullovejoy

Dav e

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:29 am**

Gordy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 1:20 am Dave,

I have not had to mess with the lovejoys, but I understand the crankshaft is only 1" or 1.125" long and the lovejoy must take up most of that. So the question is how do you intend on mounting a pulley in there? My first thought is to find or make a hubless pulley and weld it to the lovejoy, like the sprockets at Tractor Supply, pick the sprocket you need then pick the hub you need and weld the 2 together. Or find a pulley with a large enough bore to fit the outside of the lovejoy, then cut a keyway on the outside of the lovejoy.

Gordy

This lovejoy is 1" bore . I have no shortage of pulleys salvaged in stock. My first thought is to back cut a the lovejoy L-099 with a centering collar , drill and tap for 3 x 1/4" bolts . Take a pulley that will fit nicely in the bracket and machine corresponding bore and drill 3 mounting bolt holes to match .
I am not sure how the lovejoy would take weld as they are cintered metal . Maybe Harry would know .

Dave

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:57 am**

Now I'm thinking why you don't go with sprockets and chain, as this is a belt that you won't be changing much. Plus the chain will be easier to make custom length, then find a belt that fits.

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:57 am**

Now I'm thinking why you don't go with sprockets and chain, as this is a belt that you won't be changing much. Plus the chain will be easier to make custom length, then find a belt that fits.

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:14 am**

It seems like a chain would add a lot of drag and noise at this speed.

I'd want a v belt myself. That multi-link v-belt would be great.

Bob

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:18 am**

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:29 amThis lovejoy is 1" bore . I have no shortage of pulleys salvaged in stock. My first thought is to back cut a the lovejoy L-099 with a centering collar , drill and tap for 3 x 1/4" bolts . Take a pulley that will fit nicely in the bracket and machine corresponding bore and drill 3 mounting bolt holes to match .
I am not sure how the lovejoy would take weld as they are cintered metal . Maybe Harry would know .

Dave

A sintered lovejoy? Sintered metals are metal particles heated (not to the melting point) and pressed together to make a semi solid object like a oil impregnated bronzeite bushing or filter. I have seen cast aluminum / pot metal lovejoys for lite electrical applications, and machined steel lovejoys for impulse loads like a ICE engine. I don't see how a sintered lovejoy could possible holdup to the ICE engine load.

Gordy

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 12:31 pm**

thebuildist wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:14 am It seems like a chain would add a lot of drag and noise at this speed.

I'd want a v belt myself. That multi-link v-belt would be great.

Bob

Not a heavy load so I think a belt would do better as well.

Dave

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 12:40 pm**

I do have pump mount that you are looking for

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 12:53 pm**

Dave180 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 12:40 pm I do have pump mount that you are looking for

Not yet , Eugen thinks may have have . Waiting to see . Do you one have if needed ?

Dave

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 1:44 pm**

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:29 am
Gordy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 1:20 am Dave,

I have not had to mess with the lovejoys, but I understand the crankshaft is only 1" or 1.125" long and the lovejoy must take up most of that. So the question is how do you intend on mounting a pulley in there? My first thought is to find or make a hubless pulley and weld it to the lovejoy, like the sprockets at Tractor Supply, pick the sprocket you need then pick the hub you need and weld the 2 together. Or find a pulley with a large enough bore to fit the outside of the lovejoy, then cut a keyway on the outside of the lovejoy.

Gordy
This lovejoy is 1" bore . I have no shortage of pulleys salvaged in stock. My first thought is to back cut a the lovejoy L-099 with a centering collar , drill and tap for 3 x 1/4" bolts . Take a pulley that will fit nicely in the bracket and machine corresponding bore and drill 3 mounting bolt holes to match .
I am not sure how the lovejoy would take weld as they are cintered metal . Maybe Harry would know .

Dave

I didn't know Lovejoy's were a sintered metal! As Gordy mentioned they are a metal that is made by pressing together metal particles at a high heat lower than the melting temp. They are difficult to machine and usually have a rough surface look to them. I thought that Lovejoy's were machined then hardened by heat treating. The ones I've seen on the Case tractors are aluminum. Back to the sintered metal being weldable? I would say the success would be poor.

Keep the Peace
Harry

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:31 pm**

Harry wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 1:44 pm
DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:29 am
Gordy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 1:20 am Dave,

I have not had to mess with the lovejoys, but I understand the crankshaft is only 1" or 1.125" long and the lovejoy must take up most of that. So the question is how do you intend on mounting a pulley in there? My first thought is to find or make a hubless pulley and weld it to the lovejoy, like the sprockets at Tractor Supply, pick the sprocket you need then pick the hub you need and weld the 2 together. Or find a pulley with a large enough bore to fit the outside of the lovejoy, then cut a keyway on the outside of the lovejoy.

Gordy
This lovejoy is 1" bore . I have no shortage of pulleys salvaged in stock. My first thought is to back cut a the lovejoy L-099 with a centering collar , drill and tap for 3 x 1/4" bolts . Take a pulley that will fit nicely in the bracket and machine corresponding bore and drill 3 mounting bolt holes to match .
I am not sure how the lovejoy would take weld as they are cintered metal . Maybe Harry would know .

Dave
I didn't know Lovejoy's were a sintered metal! As Gordy mentioned they are a metal that is made by pressing together metal particles at a high heat lower than the melting temp. They are difficult to machine and usually have a rough surface look to them. I thought that Lovejoy's were machined then hardened by heat treating. The ones I've seen on the Case tractors are aluminum. Back to the sintered metal being weldable? I would say the success would be poor.

Keep the Peace
Harry

Hers pics of one of many what I beleave to be original of the pump. The only way I know to produce parts like this back then was EDM or Sintered . It has been a long time since I apprenticed in Machine shop so correct me if I am wrong . They are magnetic.

Dave

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:41 pm**

Here is the room I have to work with .

Changing to the newer style bracket and my stud being long should be able to put one in there .

Dave

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:08 pm**

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:31 pm
Harry wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 1:44 pm
DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:29 am

This lovejoy is 1" bore . I have no shortage of pulleys salvaged in stock. My first thought is to back cut a the lovejoy L-099 with a centering collar , drill and tap for 3 x 1/4" bolts . Take a pulley that will fit nicely in the bracket and machine corresponding bore and drill 3 mounting bolt holes to match .
I am not sure how the lovejoy would take weld as they are cintered metal . Maybe Harry would know .

Dave
I didn't know Lovejoy's were a sintered metal! As Gordy mentioned they are a metal that is made by pressing together metal particles at a high heat lower than the melting temp. They are difficult to machine and usually have a rough surface look to them. I thought that Lovejoy's were machined then hardened by heat treating. The ones I've seen on the Case tractors are aluminum. Back to the sintered metal being weldable? I would say the success would be poor.

Keep the Peace
Harry

Hers pics of one of many what I beleave to be original of the pump. The only way I know to produce parts like this back then was EDM or Sintered . It has been a long time since I apprenticed in Machine shop so correct me if I am wrong . They are magnetic.

20220214_144105.jpg20220214_144115.jpg
Dave

If it's sintered steel, then it would be magnetic. There is sintered bronze or brass then it would not be non-magnetic.
Keep the Peace
Harry

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:10 pm**

I have worked with a lot of lovejoy brand couplings.

My guess is that this one may have had a reducing bushing machined and press in place. The clue for me is the second key in the secondary bore. I have machined these units to fit where space was an issue and never came across a secondary key. Lovejoy makes these in aluminum, stainless, and steel versions.

Spike

Posted: **Tue Feb 15, 2022 6:15 am**

Spike188 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:10 pm I have worked with a lot of lovejoy brand couplings.
image.png
My guess is that this one may have had a reducing bushing machined and press in place. The clue for me is the second key in the secondary bore. I have machined these units to fit where space was an issue and never came across a secondary key. Lovejoy makes these in aluminum, stainless, and steel versions.

Spike

Those lines are ridges like you would find on aluminum parts and are not found on the other side .

Dave

Posted: **Tue Feb 15, 2022 6:19 am**

Hey guys look what I found . On the lovejoy site.
Lovejoy Jaw Type couplings generally consist of two hubs (available in sintered metal, aluminum, bronze, steel, stainless steel, and ductile iron), and an elastomer element, known as a spider or cushion (materials available include NBR SOX rubber, Urethane, Hytrel®, and Bronze).

https://www.lovejoy-inc.com/products/ja ... couplings/

I Think we are all right, depending on what you have in your hand .

Dave

Posted: **Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:18 pm**

If it were me I'd want to re-make the engine side lovejoy coupling out of iron or soft steel. If you remade it to original dimensions and moved the set screw nearer the engine, you could weld a thin steel plate or thin iron pulley to its OD, near where the set screw currently is. I think you'd have to angle the set screw hole to get its point to be near its original location. Possible, not ideal.

My preference would be to re-make the engine side coupling to a larger OD, complete with a flange. That way a nice fat pulley ID can slide over the lovejoy OD, and rest against the flange. Because the ID of the pulley boss is larger than the OD of the spider and driven coupling, the pulley bore can safely extend out over and past the centerline of the spider. (The pulley ID has to be larger than the OD of the spider and driven coupling in order to not restrict them from lateral movement/shifting, which they must be allowed to do.)

And as you already referred to, you could drill for 3 set screws to stop the pulley from rotating around the coupling. It would probably be a little more secure if you threaded the OD of the new coupling and internal threaded the pulley bore, so that the pulley screws on and locks. But you'd probably still want to give it a set screw to prevent it from backing off. Of course, industry standard would be a keyed joint, with a single set screw in the pulley boss to lock against the key. But I don't want to spring for the cost of broaches, so I only cut keyways if I must.

As for pulley size, probably the smaller the better. Your target alternator RPM is around 6000, so with the crank going 3600, you'd like your pulley size to be no more than 2x the size of the alternator pulley.

Just my thoughts.

Posted: **Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:17 pm**

Thanks @thebuildist Bob , how have you been . Have not heard much from you these days hope you all are well . Do appreciate your input . What I was trying to get across is that I was thinking about turning a centring collar off the back of the connector . Then bolting the pulley to the back of the connector . As you say , ya steel would be preferable and is available. I think I will start by ordering a steel L-099 1" bore then work from there . I have to acquire a newer style bracket as well .
I will try to upload a pic of what I have in my head later . I have to go deal with anouther frozen down spout .

Dave

Posted: **Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:26 pm**

Even better yet, if you can make a pulley with the groove offset to one side of the mounting boss, you could easily attach it to a mostly unmodified lovjoy coupling:

Machine your pulley boss's ID to fit the the engine-side coupling's OD. Something around 2.115". (I got the lovejoy OD as 2.11" from the LoveJoy website. You'd want to confirm and adjust to the actual OD of your part.) Then "shoulder-drill" through one wall of the pulley boss with a 3/16" drill bit. Then with the pulley in place, finish drilling on through the shoulder of the lovejoy coupling and on out through the other wall of the pulley boss.

Then drive a 3/16" roll pin through that hole.

You still have to fabricate the special offset pulley, but the lovejoy coupling can be basically stock. The pulley could be machined out of 1" plate, with something around a 5" diameter. Aluminum would do, but corrosion will be a long-term problem. Iron or steel would be better.

Then your alternator pulley can be as small as about 2", not larger than about 6"

Posted: **Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:37 pm**

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:17 pm Thanks @thebuildist Bob , how have you been . Have not heard much from you these days hope you all are well . Do appreciate your input . What I was trying to get across is that I was thinking about turning a centring collar off the back of the connector . Then bolting the pulley to the back of the connector . As you say , ya steel would be preferable and is available. I think I will start by ordering a steel L-099 1" bore then work from there . I have to acquire a newer style bracket as well .
I will try to upload a pic of what I have in my head later . I have to go deal with anouther frozen down spout .

Dave

Having not dug into one of these before, I'm assuming that we don't have much if any clearance between the face of the lovejoy coupling and the face of the crankcase. I'm assuming that it's not more than about 1/4" from the face of the crank bearing to the face of the lovejoy coupling.

If I'm wrong about that, then the pulley is way easier to source/fabricate. Do you mean you'll attach the pulley web to the back face of the lovejoy coupling? That's clearly the easiest, if there's room to do it.

And I've been doing very well. I've been occupied with the holidays, and with my 3 grandkids. (6 mo, 5 mo, and 2 yrs) Man, do I love those little guys! At the moment I'm finishing up a project to make a bushcraft knife and sheath with my son-in-law. But within a week or two I'll be back to finish up the loader hydraulics, and I'm sure you'll all hear from me then, if for no other reason than whining!

Posted: **Tue Feb 15, 2022 5:11 pm**

Here is what I was thinking Bob @thebuildist

As for the room , I have to measure it but remember having more than expected .
Glad to hear all is good and your have fun with the little ones .

Dave

Posted: **Tue Feb 15, 2022 7:06 pm**

Well that certainly looks great. Simple is best, right? Sounds like I may have been overthinking it.

Let us know how it turns out!

Bob

Posted: **Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:38 am**

@DavidBarkey look what I found!

Posted: **Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:58 pm**

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:38 am @DavidBarkey look what I found!

AF84FF86-191E-4C0C-939B-E35E81E1E035.jpeg

I am not sure that the mount will work. That is for an Onan engine, is it not?

I think you are just overthinking it and making it too much work. The battery is your gas tank for things that are 12vdc. Yes, the stock charger will not keep up with the load you are looking to run. But, the battery will. All you need is a higher amperage trickle charger and the battery will be ready to run your electrical draw all over again. You would only need to get a bigger battery if you run the battery down too much per use.

Even if you got the alternator and idler and pulley mounted you would still need to figure out the pulley size to run the alternator. That is a whole lot of work for what you want to do. Then if you are using a blower, a Kohler can only eat so much snow at a time. Adding the drag of an alternator may slow your working speed down even more. You could even slow it enough that throwing of the snow is not far enough.

There are guys that have a bad charging system and just mow the yard after they charge the battery. Most can mow the whole yard on a single charge.

Posted: **Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:12 pm**

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:38 am @DavidBarkey look what I found!

AF84FF86-191E-4C0C-939B-E35E81E1E035.jpeg

Took a while to find one and Now I have two .

Dave

Posted: **Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:32 pm**

ssmewing wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:58 pm
Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:38 am @DavidBarkey look what I found!

AF84FF86-191E-4C0C-939B-E35E81E1E035.jpeg
I am not sure that the mount will work. That is for an Onan engine, is it not?

I think you are just overthinking it and making it too much work. The battery is your gas tank for things that are 12vdc. Yes, the stock charger will not keep up with the load you are looking to run. But, the battery will. All you need is a higher amperage trickle charger and the battery will be ready to run your electrical draw all over again. You would only need to get a bigger battery if you run the battery down too much per use.

Even if you got the alternator and idler and pulley mounted you would still need to figure out the pulley size to run the alternator. That is a whole lot of work for what you want to do. Then if you are using a blower, a Kohler can only eat so much snow at a time. Adding the drag of an alternator may slow your working speed down even more. You could even slow it enough that throwing of the snow is not far enough.

There are guys that have a bad charging system and just mow the yard after they charge the battery. Most can mow the whole yard on a single charge.

Steve I think you missed some key facts . Seeing as I am putting it on an Onan , my 446 Snow Blower project tractor . I am sure it will fit . 20+ hp should do it . As for running a battery down and recharging it repeatedly is the fastest way known to man to kill a lead acid battery . How do I know , 30 years as a lic. auto mechanic , helps .
But hey seriously , thanks for chiming in . I never know where each little piece of the puzzle will come from .

Dave

Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

Adding an alternator

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