Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

Onan starter drive sticking / not engaging with the fly wheel It has done it a couple of times in the couple of days . I think it is freezing up . A couple of taps with soft faced blunt instrument and it works . Any of you guys run in to this and what fixed it ?

I did a few years ago. I took the starter to a auto electric repair shop and it worked for a while then stated not engaging properly again. I ended up buying a new starter that was been working fine for a couple of years now. Harry

When they get tired, the cold seems to make it show...
Just went through it on a 444.

My 446 will do that once in awhile. It’s pretty greasy so at some point I figure I’ll have to try and clean it up but at this point I’m doing the percussive maintenance same as you.

Obviously, removal, cleaning and lubrication is the correct way to go but also involves a lot of work and it's cold out!

If the bendix drive is stuck and will not engage, a screwdriver/small pry bar between the rear of the bendix and the starter with a bit of pressure on it should then jump right out with a bump of the key. With the gear engaged with the flywheel teeth, clean the armature shaft as well as possible with non-chlorinated brake cleaner and then lubricate with WD40, that should keep it working for awhile. This always seems to rear it's head in colder weather when any accumulation of grease/dirt becomes stiffer.

If you do take the starter off to give it a good cleaning, then there's the age old argument of whether to use a lubricant or not on the bendix drive or leave it dry since oil/grease attracts dirt. Kohler does offer their own recommended brand of starter drive lubricant which is what I use, doesn't look much different than your typical white grease.

Bob

Thanks Bob , I have a warm shop to put it in , but of course it has been full of other people stuff I have been working on. I will get it inside thawed out and dried off . Then I will clean and lube some low temp Teflon spray I have . It is slippery but does not stay wet to attract dirt . And hope for the best . Other than the drive not engaging a couple of times it cranks it over fine hot or cold .

Boomer always hated it when starters did not have a plastic sleeve on the starter bendix. He said it was vital to protecting the starter drive.

I just replaced a cheap charlie starter that was made in 2017.

The fuel system was all original, including the fuel line that kept its shape after it was removed. He could rarely get it to start and that ruined the starter.

The new cheap charlie starter should last now that the engine starts within 3-4seconds at idle and only fully choked briefly. Now, you are more likely to flood it if you use too much choke.

After thawing out drying off and lubing the bendex drive it work as it should now .

What did you lube it with Dave. ?

Noel

propane1 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2025 3:31 am What did you lube it with Dave. ?

Noel

I used Triflow with Teflon , The new stuff has PTFE in it . But there are a number of similar "dry lube" out there I think would do the same thing . I want to thank Bob for the idea of using a lube that will not attract dirt or gum up when cold out .

David I have a can of the tri flow lubricant, it works great I used it the other day. It always seems to me like it smells like bananas. Harry

Harry wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2025 10:00 am David I have a can of the tri flow lubricant, it works great I used it the other day. It always seems to me like it smells like bananas. Harry

Thats because it is made for use by Grease Monkeys .

The starter drive got to "frezzing up" again . Got tired of this , so bought a new one and was fine all summer . Now twice in 2 days it is back to the same thing . The drive kicks out with a clunk , but no spin like the motor is seized , I know it is not . This starter is less than a year old . Any ideas guys ???? I heat the thing up and it works .
Note it is a P220 , so the solenoid is part of the starer . I tired putting power directly to the solenoid , same thing . The solenoid is fed from a 30 amp relay controlled by the ignition switch (positive side ) and the neutral safety switch ( ground side ) . That feeds battery voltage directly to the starter . I am obviously missing something , when it is cold it is too hard for me to work on . But when it is warm it doesn't act up .

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Mon Dec 01, 2025 4:32 pm The starter drive got to "frezzing up" again . Got tired of this , so bought a new one and was fine all summer . Now twice in 2 days it is back to the same thing . The drive kicks out with a clunk , but no spin like the motor is seized , I know it is not . This starter is less than a year old . Any ideas guys ???? I heat the thing up and it works .
Note it is a P220 , so the solenoid is part of the starer . I tired putting power directly to the solenoid , same thing . The solenoid is fed from a 30 amp relay controlled by the ignition switch (positive side ) and the neutral safety switch ( ground side ) . That feeds battery voltage directly to the starter . I am obviously missing something , when it is cold it is too hard for me to work on . But when it is warm it doesn't act up .

Dave,

Just to clarify, did you buy a new starter drive or a complete new starter? The symptom that you describe is related to the starter solenoid. It shifts the pinion gear forward, but due to bad/burnt contacts internally, it does not send 12 volts to the armature.

Not sure if this is the case, so with more information I'm happy to help.

Bob

myerslawnandgarden wrote: ↑Tue Dec 02, 2025 12:02 am

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Mon Dec 01, 2025 4:32 pm The starter drive got to "frezzing up" again . Got tired of this , so bought a new one and was fine all summer . Now twice in 2 days it is back to the same thing . The drive kicks out with a clunk , but no spin like the motor is seized , I know it is not . This starter is less than a year old . Any ideas guys ???? I heat the thing up and it works .
Note it is a P220 , so the solenoid is part of the starer . I tired putting power directly to the solenoid , same thing . The solenoid is fed from a 30 amp relay controlled by the ignition switch (positive side ) and the neutral safety switch ( ground side ) . That feeds battery voltage directly to the starter . I am obviously missing something , when it is cold it is too hard for me to work on . But when it is warm it doesn't act up .

Dave,

Just to clarify, did you buy a new starter drive or a complete new starter? The symptom that you describe is related to the starter solenoid. It shifts the pinion gear forward, but due to bad/burnt contacts internally, it does not send 12 volts to the armature.

Not sure if this is the case, so with more information I'm happy to help.

Bob

Yes , I bought a brand new starter last February and installed early March I think it was .
I guess it is possible I got shitty stater , have bought this brand many times before for other small engines with no issue .

Just a thought. Get the part warm, then spray with brake clean.
Worked on a car we had, door latch would freeze and door would not close. Heated the latch with a torch a bit, then put the brake clean to it. No more troubles.


Noel

Could it be poor quality bushings and they’re already worn that bad? Or probably more likely a poor connection in the solenoid. I guess the question is, is it due to the cold or just a crappy after market started. Either way you’ll probably have to get it on a bench and test it.

I am in agreement with @myerslawnandgarden and @JSinMO . Another issue could be that the start is out of alignment just enough that the start gear does not throw into the ringgear far enough when cold. If it hangs up before engaging the solenoid then it neither releases or turns over. It is a long shot.

Spike188 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 02, 2025 5:48 pm I am in agreement with @myerslawnandgarden and @JSinMO . Another issue could be that the start is out of alignment just enough that the start gear does not throw into the ringgear far enough when cold. If it hangs up before engaging the solenoid then it neither releases or turns over. It is a long shot.

You may have a point there . It has always sounded like it is not meshing right . I still have the original and am going to see if I can find a rebuild kit and new solenoid for it . I have been so busy with other poeples stuff I haven't had time for my own .

Got this reply back from the company selling the starter . This guy is as dumb as a bag of hammers .


Dec 2, 2025 2:47 a.m.
This starter is already failing . I am an Auto Mechanic of over 30 years and have done all the necessary tests . Every time it gets cold the solenoid engages but does not make contact across the posts and power the starter motor . It has never worked well from day one , but it is such an job to change on this machine I left it in there . It has a 1 year warranty. PO # 702-9327462-0204258
Dec 2, 2025 7:11 p.m.

Dear David,
Thanks for bringing this to our attention. We apologize for any inconvenience caused.
Could you take some relevant pictures or video screenshots to show the problem you mentioned and tell us more details? This will allow us to thoroughly investigate and confirm the issue on your behalf.
And would you also please provide more details of your car,such as:Make,Model,Year or VIN# for us to check if there is application issue?
Sorry for the problem but wait for your further help to solve it.
Looking forward to your early reply.
Best Regards,
Frank

Dec 3, 2025 2:42 a.m.
It is on Onan P220 in a 1982 Case 446 garden tractor . The engine has to be removed from the tractor to access the starter which is 8hr ordeal . I do not know how to send you a video .
Dec 3, 2025 9:43 p.m.

Dear David,
Thanks for getting back to us.
According to the information you provided, the product does not fit your car. It fits Gehl Skid Steer SL3310 P220 Onan Engine 1983-1993 only, as described. We are afraid that you have purchased wrong item. And the problem may be caused by application issue.
After checking, sorry that we do not sell the correct product for your car at present.
According to the return policy, the full refund is based on returning the item and we will issue you refund after receiving your return package. However, your order has exceeded the 30 days free return period, so there is a return shipping cost, hope for your understanding.
In order to save your time, we would like to refund you 50% of this order without returning.
This will save a lot of hassle on returns, what do you think of it?
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Best Regards,
Frank
They base that off this .

I did a service call on a small die press this week that was stuck on bottom dead center. The a new air supply to the clutch was too small and clutch would slip mid cycle. A service company sent 2 labourers in to get the press off of dead center. They spent 2 days taking the crank assembly loose to reset the press to top dead center. This happened twice. I was in the plant and was told that the press was stuck again. My solution, reverse the rotation on the 3 phase drive motor, then activate the clutch with the motor rotating in reverse. The complete process took under 30 minutes. They are advised to use the new box store compressor suppling air as a nurse tank, (big tank, small compressor) and increase the air line from 1/2" to 3/4, then tie back into the main air feeds for the plant.

I charged them a days billing for the quick fix and advice. I have no doubt that they will be a repeat customer.

@DavidBarkey situations like this are absolutely maddening Unfortunate the days of doing business with company representatives or parts people that actually know something are all but gone. Don’t feel alone. Just as an example on my 61 Ford depending on what I’m looking for I have to tell them to lookup 1ton Dodge, or for engine parts look up a1957 Fairlane! Anything to fool the computer they are staring at so I can get what I need.
In this case it might be just as well off to take the 50% refund and hope you can fix it when you can get at it.

Dave,

The Onan Performer replacement for the 446//448 tractors did not use a solenoid shift starter due to it being mounted on the opposite side and interfering with the hydraulic lines to the heat exchanger. I wonder if a better option for you would be to use the conventional starter motor with a firewall mounted solenoid (relay)? That way you are sure of 12 volts going to the starter and are not having to pull the engine over a solenoid issue.

I can supply an Amazon link to a compatible version if you would like, I think they are around $60-70 US.

Bob

myerslawnandgarden wrote: ↑Thu Dec 04, 2025 11:15 pm Dave,

The Onan Performer replacement for the 446//448 tractors did not use a solenoid shift starter due to it being mounted on the opposite side and interfering with the hydraulic lines to the heat exchanger. I wonder if a better option for you would be to use the conventional starter motor with a firewall mounted solenoid (relay)? That way you are sure of 12 volts going to the starter and are not having to pull the engine over a solenoid issue.

I can supply an Amazon link to a compatible version if you would like, I think they are around $60-70 US.

Bob

That is an interesting idea . It is very crowded on that side with hydraulic filter and hoses for 2 oil coolers there . Please correct me if I am wrong . If memory serves me correct , the P series starter mounts to the block and the B48 ect. mounts to the oil pan . I don't Know what oil pan is on there and if there is mounts on that pan .
Yes please Bob , I like options . Even if I don't go that route it might help someone else down the road .

I took the Original starter an OEM unit over to my local rebuilder to get parts to rebuild it . After looking up parts it was determined that the brushes are spot welded to the starter and holder plate . So we took it apart to see how bad they are . They are still about 75% good . So he ordered a new solenoid from a quality parts supplier and I am going to put that on it and test it . The money back from the other starter will pay for it .

Bob got me thinking . Had a brain . I might be able to solve starter problems with both tractors . The Blower Project 446 with the Genny engine with low CC 16hp heads that won't crank over unless warmed up (140lbs compression ) needs a stronger starter than stock . I did notice that the Performer starters have 9 tooth gear while the other one have a 10 tooth gear . That is about 10% slow turning but 10% more torque . Being that they were put on P224s make sense . That extra might just be enough to make starting easier . I will still plug it in when cold as I have block heaters in the pan and under the tank . The Blower tractor is the older setup with a front mounted tank over the cooler , so will have more room down that side that on Frankie . The valve to cooler pipe may need "adjusting to give a little more room for the starter . This would require having both tractors torn apart in the shop at the same time as the tins are different one each one due to starter locations . Sketchy thing to do this time of year.

Bob @myerslawnandgarden I would appreciate your input on this .

Dave,

This is a bit of information more as an FYI and will probably raise more questions, but here goes.

Years back, Onan did have a Performer engine spec'd to replace the 446/448 engines and sold it as a P218G/10936H.

As noted, the B43/48M series starters bolted to the oil base and were a major project to R&R as the entire front of the engine needed to be disassembled at least to do it right. I could look it up, but I think the flat rate for the starter was around 2.5 hours.

Performer engines have the starter mounted to the engine block from the other direction and are easily removed with most applications, but not the Case Gt's.

The starter is on the opposite side, so there is interference with the hydraulic line and hose going to the front mounted heat exchanger and reservoir ( on some models) Factory instructions were to cut the steel line to the rear of the starter and use a section of hose from there forward so that it could be removed when the starter eventually needed to be serviced. When I installed the engines, I just made an additional bend in the tube, out and then back in with the assumption that starter replacement would be addressed down the road.

These engines did not have the solenoid shift starters, due to space limitations, they used the previous bendix inertia engagement design and had the armature terminal on the rear of the starter.

There are more service issues with the solenoids on the solenoid shift starters than the starter motors themselves, that's the reason for my suggestion to change to the inertia engagement starter drive as the underhood relay is easily replaced and inexpensive.

So, sadly this starter is now $715.68 from Cummins leaving no reasonable alternative other than the Chinese replacements through Amazon sellers. We offer that starter for $72.99 USD.

Since you are in CA, I would suggest that you try to find the item from Amazon rather than purchasing from us, the Onan number that you need is 191-1567, the supplier that we use for these starters sells them as their p/n 5701.

Our listing is https://www.casegardentractorparts.com/ ... arter.html

From Amazon:

@myerslawnandgarden Thanks Bob . Again your knowledge is invaluable . I got $65 refund from the aftermarket starter which paid for a new good quality solenoid for the OEM starter . So now much to think about , but I have many more options then I had before . I will check with My alt/starter guy to see if his supplier (chinese but built to high spec. ) can get that other starter . Have the number simplifies things .

myerslawnandgarden wrote: ↑Fri Dec 05, 2025 11:56 pm Dave,

This is a bit of information more as an FYI and will probably raise more questions, but here goes.

Years back, Onan did have a Performer engine spec'd to replace the 446/448 engines and sold it as a P218G/10936H.

As noted, the B43/48M series starters bolted to the oil base and were a major project to R&R as the entire front of the engine needed to be disassembled at least to do it right. I could look it up, but I think the flat rate for the starter was around 2.5 hours.

Performer engines have the starter mounted to the engine block from the other direction and are easily removed with most applications, but not the Case Gt's.

The starter is on the opposite side, so there is interference with the hydraulic line and hose going to the front mounted heat exchanger and reservoir ( on some models) Factory instructions were to cut the steel line to the rear of the starter and use a section of hose from there forward so that it could be removed when the starter eventually needed to be serviced. When I installed the engines, I just made an additional bend in the tube, out and then back in with the assumption that starter replacement would be addressed down the road.

These engines did not have the solenoid shift starters, due to space limitations, they used the previous bendix inertia engagement design and had the armature terminal on the rear of the starter.

There are more service issues with the solenoids on the solenoid shift starters than the starter motors themselves, that's the reason for my suggestion to change to the inertia engagement starter drive as the underhood relay is easily replaced and inexpensive.

So, sadly this starter is now $715.68 from Cummins leaving no reasonable alternative other than the Chinese replacements through Amazon sellers. We offer that starter for $72.99 USD.

Since you are in CA, I would suggest that you try to find the item from Amazon rather than purchasing from us, the Onan number that you need is 191-1567, the supplier that we use for these starters sells them as their p/n 5701.

Our listing is https://www.casegardentractorparts.com/ ... arter.html

From Amazon:

image.png

That was a good read and invaluable info Bob. Thanks for taking the time to share. Harry

I purchased this starter for the 446 winter machine three years ago and it has been working good for me. Harry

Finally got Frankie in to change the starter . I put the oem starter back in with a new solenoid on it . Tomorrow night is going to be quite cold so I will know Thursday if I got it fixed for good . The aftermarket one I took out turns out had no gasket between the solenoid and the housing . The new solenoid came with 2 gaskets and 2 spacers . I didn't need the spacers , but used one gasket on each one . You can see some corrosion from water getting in on the aftermarket one . I will bench test it after leaving it out in sub zero temps to see if it will work as a spare .

Temp went from +2C yesterday to -16C this morning . The starter worked on Frankie .

-16C?! What work did you make Frankie do?

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Jan 16, 2026 3:29 am

-16C?! What work did you make Frankie do?

Nothing I just wanted to make sure the starter would work below freezing again .