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I got hurt. (Sorry if this is a little graphic)
Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2024 3:18 pm
by JSinMO
I’m still not sure how this could happen and I thought one of you guys might have some insight.
So the 2N lost spark AGAIN! I pulled it into the shop with the 446 and was trying to figure out what the heck could be happening. I had the switch on and was checking voltage to the coil with my meter and the engine started cranking on its own! My hand was at the front of the engine and the alternator grabbed my thump and ripped it open.
I was at the front of the tractor, the starter button, solenoid, and wire to the starter all at the opposite end.
How in the world could this happen? There’s no way voltage should be going to the starter.
I got to spend the evening at the hospital getting sowed back together.
So now I’m working one handed with a bag over the wound and a thumb that useless for awhile.
This is confounding to me. The only thing I can come up with is there is a path to ground either in the starter button or the solenoid. Have you ever heard of something like this? And why did it decide to crank at that moment? In my mind power still has to get through the solenoid.
Anyway I’d like to hear your thoughts. I hate getting hurt but if in someway someone else can see this and it keeps them from having an accident at least that’s something positive.
Re: I got hurt. (Sorry if this is a little graphic)
Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2024 6:48 pm
by DavidBarkey
JSinMO wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 3:18 pm
I’m still not sure how this could happen and I thought one of you guys might have some insight.
So the 2N lost spark AGAIN! I pulled it into the shop with the 446 and was trying to figure out what the heck could be happening. I had the switch on and was checking voltage to the coil with my meter and the engine started cranking on its own! My hand was at the front of the engine and the alternator grabbed my thump and ripped it open. IMG_4515.jpeg
I was at the front of the tractor, the starter button, solenoid, and wire to the starter all at the opposite end.
How in the world could this happen? There’s no way voltage should be going to the starter.
I got to spend the evening at the hospital getting sowed back together. IMG_3870.jpegIMG_3875.jpeg
So now I’m working one handed with a bag over the wound and a thumb that useless for awhile.
This is confounding to me. The only thing I can come up with is there is a path to ground either in the starter button or the solenoid. Have you ever heard of something like this? And why did it decide to crank at that moment? In my mind power still has to get through the solenoid.
Anyway I’d like to hear your thoughts. I hate getting hurt but if in someway someone else can see this and it keeps them from having an accident at least that’s something positive.
It pains me to say this , but been there done that . I have a scare that goes from the crotch between my finger and thumb back almost to my wrist. left my left hand useless and in a bag for weeks . I won't get into how it happened . As for how it happened to you . You just prove that you have an intermittent short in the system somewhere that back fed power to the starter solenoid . Without being there and doing my own test , I can only guess , but I would start by changing the ignition switch. That to me is the common denominator.
Ps . Hope you heel quickly .
Re: I got hurt. (Sorry if this is a little graphic)
Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2024 7:21 pm
by RoamingGnome
Ouch!
Hope you make a speedy recovery and are feeling better soon...
Re: I got hurt. (Sorry if this is a little graphic)
Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2024 7:46 pm
by Timj
I won't give you a thumbs up for your post
there's nothing good about it other than it wasn't worse. Hope you get healed up and back to work with two hands quickly.
Re: I got hurt. (Sorry if this is a little graphic)
Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:10 pm
by propane1
That’s nasty Jeff. I’d be changing the ignition switch, starter button and solenoid, to start with. Then looking at all the wires.
Hopefully it heals quickly.
Noel
Re: I got hurt. (Sorry if this is a little graphic)
Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:49 pm
by Eugen
Ouch! I'm sorry it happened Jeff.
hope you recover quickly. I must say though, thank God you didn't lose your whole thumb or worse. Our flesh and bones isn't a match to any moving parts on the tractor.
Re: I got hurt. (Sorry if this is a little graphic)
Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2024 1:32 am
by Spike188
Jeff, Like others I can relate to having stiches in the same area almost 40 years ago and have a nice centipede scar to prove it.
My thoughts are also the ignition switch or that all of the wires leading to the switch might be bundled or wrapped together for neatness. If wrapped together and wire insulation is deteriorating, then that is the most like cause of the short and false start.
Heal soon.
Re: I got hurt. (Sorry if this is a little graphic)
Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:25 am
by Harry
Getting hurt is never a good situation. All I can say as mention the system shorted out some where. Just goes to say you can never be to careful. Hope you heal soon!
Harry
Re: I got hurt. (Sorry if this is a little graphic)
Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2024 7:25 pm
by JSinMO
Thank you for the comments fellas, I appreciate it.
No pun intended, but on one hand I feel pretty stupid about this, on the other hand this shouldn’t have been an issue that could have happened. I felt like i was in that horror movie Christine!
I did wrap my hand in a bag and go have a look. There are only 3 wires I didn’t replace so that’s on the list. This is a simple push button starter switch. I took it off the tractor and it was covered in oil and grime.
I’m not comfortable saying this is the issue but it COULD have been the problem. As stated I’ll have to replace it
I doubt I’ll be getting much wrench turning done for a little bit. Hopefully this won’t take long to heal. I’m thanks again guys!
Re: I got hurt. (Sorry if this is a little graphic)
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 9:19 pm
by Chad
Ouch Jeff! Hope you heal quickly, you'll have it sorted in time and as always with some great input from our many experts.
Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
Re: I got hurt. (Sorry if this is a little graphic)
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 6:48 am
by DavidBarkey
JSinMO wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 7:25 pm
Thank you for the comments fellas, I appreciate it.
No pun intended, but on one hand I feel pretty stupid about this, on the other hand this shouldn’t have been an issue that could have happened. I felt like i was in that horror movie Christine!
I did wrap my hand in a bag and go have a look. There are only 3 wires I didn’t replace so that’s on the list. This is a simple push button starter switch. I took it off the tractor and it was covered in oil and grime.
IMG_4865.jpeg
I’m not comfortable saying this is the issue but it COULD have been the problem. As stated I’ll have to replace it
I doubt I’ll be getting much wrench turning done for a little bit. Hopefully this won’t take long to heal. I’m thanks again guys!
Where does that red 10 guage wire go to on the back of the starter button ? What side of the switch is on ? Battery or starter .
Re: I got hurt. (Sorry if this is a little graphic)
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:51 pm
by JSinMO
DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 6:48 am
JSinMO wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 7:25 pm
Thank you for the comments fellas, I appreciate it.
No pun intended, but on one hand I feel pretty stupid about this, on the other hand this shouldn’t have been an issue that could have happened. I felt like i was in that horror movie Christine!
I did wrap my hand in a bag and go have a look. There are only 3 wires I didn’t replace so that’s on the list. This is a simple push button starter switch. I took it off the tractor and it was covered in oil and grime.
IMG_4865.jpeg
I’m not comfortable saying this is the issue but it COULD have been the problem. As stated I’ll have to replace it
I doubt I’ll be getting much wrench turning done for a little bit. Hopefully this won’t take long to heal. I’m thanks again guys!
Where does that red 10 guage wire go to on the back of the starter button ? What side of the switch is on ? Battery or starter .
It is on the battery side. It goes to the inline fuse I added then to the switch that sends power to the ignition.
Re: I got hurt. (Sorry if this is a little graphic)
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 6:19 am
by Toolslinger
Been away... Sorry to hear your N bit you. That's some scary crap.
Way back... Prior to my existance... My folks learned the hard way that you don't leave a tractor in gear when you park it... Somehow, a mouse chewed the right wires, in just the right way to cause a short on the start circuit of the 8N. Being awfully reliable, the N started, and ran in to an immovable object in the barn basement. It then started digging. It managed to dig the rears down until the axle bottomed out. We don't know how long it ran, other than it was out of gas when my folks showed up the next weekend. I guess the neutral interlock didn't work on the N back then. I imagine after having to dig it out by hand, they decided to fix that issue, and nothing gets parked in gear since then.
I wish I could say I pull the ground cable every time I work on a machine, but I don't... I should, and this is a great reminder... I guess putting a ground disconnet on every machine would make that easier, and more prone to use... I'll just add that to the list of when I get to it stuff.
Re: I got hurt. (Sorry if this is a little graphic)
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:37 pm
by JSinMO
Good to hear from you @Toolslinger !
I’m healing up fairly well. I still don’t have much feeling in the thumb though, doc says it might be 6 to 8 weeks yet.
I can’t imagine how mad your dad was to come back a week later and find the tractor buried up to the axle! I can almost hear what words he was saying as he shoveled it out!
I should have been more careful, but the idea that the tractor would crank was not on my mind. Thank god it didn’t start. This is one situation I won’t soon forget.