Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:28 pm**

And sorry, but not on a Case tractor. Our MF16 tractor had some troubles. Melted the connector on the ignition switch. Some what common as the B terminal gets hot over time and things melt. This tractor has a four position switch. Off, lights and run, run and start. Battery/point ignition. Kohler engine.
Any ideas would be great. Part numbers of some thing I could git locally would be nice. It’s an indak switch.
Both my Case tractors have the same sort of sequence when you use the key switch.
Switch that is in the MF 16 is not original I would say. And of course, no part number on it. But it is an indak. And Case and MF tractors may not be wired the same. Electric pto on the MF. Case normally manual.
Thanks for any help. Why do I allways git the queer problems trying to find stuff.

Noel

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:22 pm**

Propane57 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:28 pm And sorry, but not on a Case tractor. Our MF16 tractor had some troubles. Melted the connector on the ignition switch. Some what common as the B terminal gets hot over time and things melt. This tractor has a four position switch. Off, lights and run, run and start. Battery/point ignition. Kohler engine.
Any ideas would be great. Part numbers of some thing I could git locally would be nice. It’s an indak switch.
Both my Case tractors have the same sort of sequence when you use the key switch.
Switch that is in the MF 16 is not original I would say. And of course, no part number on it. But it is an indak. And Case and MF tractors may not be wired the same. Electric pto on the MF. Case normally manual.
Thanks for any help. Why do I allways git the queer problems trying to find stuff.

Noel

Noel , order this .
https://www.amazon.ca/Stens-430-249-Rep ... B0015MIFBI
it is labled on the back what wire goes where .

This diagram is of a MF 14 , should be the same . Compare it to your tractor . I have been down this road on other older GTs with electric clutch.
First clean EVERY connection and ground in the wiring harness . Put the new switch , you may have to move around the wire to suit . Make sure you replace any terminals that have been "hot" . The trigger wire (positive) for the clutch cut it in a convenient spot to wire it into a Bosch 5 pin relay (30 amp) . Use it to control the relay and the to power the clutch and fuse it with 20amp. fuse . Don't skim on the wire size . As the clutch get older they tend to pull more currant .

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:44 pm**

Is this a 4 position key switch Dave. Thanks for the help. Yes the wiring diagram is of my MF 16. 14 is the same.

Noel

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:21 pm**

Just to add to what David said about wire size. I stared using 10 gauge wire and heat shrink connectors that you can get at any automotive place in all my old stuff. I started using it on 6 volt applications but now use it on most things. Shouldn’t really need that heavy of a wire in a short run 12 volt Circuit but it’s not gonna hurt.

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:10 am**

Propane57 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:44 pm Is this a 4 position key switch Dave. Thanks for the help. Yes the wiring diagram is of my MF 16. 14 is the same.

Noel

3 position switch for battery ignition . None of my suppliers sell a indak style 4 position switch for battery ignition . Your tractor was made by Simplicity from what I understand . Indak has a part # for a battery ignition 4 position switch (#R464A) . But I have not been able to get a viable part number .
For clarity is your switch key the simple stamped out key or the milled teeth key .

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:28 am**

Noel, sorry but I don't really understand what's going on. Do you want to find out why the terminal got melted or just replace the switch?

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:46 pm**

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:28 am Noel, sorry but I don't really understand what's going on. Do you want to find out why the terminal got melted or just replace the switch?

Replace switch and fix melted part.

Noel

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:53 pm**

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:10 am
Propane57 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:44 pm Is this a 4 position key switch Dave. Thanks for the help. Yes the wiring diagram is of my MF 16. 14 is the same.

Noel
3 position switch for battery ignition . None of my suppliers sell a indak style 4 position switch for battery ignition . Your tractor was made by Simplicity from what I understand . Indak has a part # for a battery ignition 4 positon switch (#R464A) . But I have not been able to get a viable part number .
For clarity is your switch key the simple stamped out key or the milled teeth key .

Yes Dave I found that part number. R464A that’s what I need. Stamped key. AMF made MF tractors until 1976. 1977 model MF’s were made by Snapper

So what key switch does my 1982 Case 446 take. ? It has the same four positions.

Noel

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:37 pm**

So took switch out of Case 446. It looks to be the same as what came out of the MF 16. And I would say nether are original. But they work.

Noel.

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:00 pm**

There are many switches like this on amazon. Bob @myerslawnandgarden might have oem or close to it too. I usually don't like the 4 position switches because I like the lights to be on separate switch.

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:20 pm**

I kinda like having things the way they came from the factory. I’m kind of odd that way.

Noel

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:24 pm**

Propane57 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:20 pm I kinda like having things the way they came from the factory. I’m kind of odd that way.

Noel

I don't think you are odd, most people in fact like it like that.

This is 4 position. Not sure the terminals are compatible though.

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:34 pm**

Propane57 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:37 pm So took switch out of Case 446. It looks to be the same as what came out of the MF 16. And I would say nether are original. But they work.

Noel.

M is for magneto ignition you need is battery ignition .

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:36 pm**

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:24 pm
Propane57 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:20 pm I kinda like having things the way they came from the factory. I’m kind of odd that way.

Noel
I don't think you are odd, most people in fact like it like that.

This is 4 position. Not sure the terminals are compatible though.

Screen Shot 2022-08-05 at 14.24.11.png

I looked that up . it is for magneto ignition .

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:41 pm**

Yes I know they are magneto ignition switches. But that’s what In the Case 446. And it works.

Somebody figured out this switch would work some how and maybe reworked the connections on to the switch to make it work.

If I could figure out the number of this switch. I’m sure it would work in the MF 16.

Noel

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:30 pm**

I think this applies to your S, A, M, B, G. Just replace A (accessory) with L (lights). Better yet, measure with an ohmmeter and see how you can assign terminals to this diagram.

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:44 pm**

That’s only a 3 position switch Eugen.

Noel

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:10 pm**

Propane57 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:37 pm So took switch out of Case 446. It looks to be the same as what came out of the MF 16. And I would say nether are original. But they work.

Noel.

And you say this is 4 positions?

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:30 pm**

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:10 pm
Propane57 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:37 pm So took switch out of Case 446. It looks to be the same as what came out of the MF 16. And I would say nether are original. But they work.

Noel.
And you say this is 4 positions?

Yes. The switch I took out of the Case 446 this afternoon, is a 4 position one. And it has a M, G, A, B and S terminals. And it works in this tractor. Notice the picture of the dash. 4 key switch positions.

Noel

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:43 pm**

Propane57 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:37 pm So took switch out of Case 446. It looks to be the same as what came out of the MF 16. And I would say nether are original. But they work.

Noel.

Still can't get my head around how they made that work , unless it is the correct switch just miss labled .

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:47 pm**

Not the correct switch Dave. The one in the picture is the correct one I believe. If I have my tractor serial correct with the correct parts book.

Noel

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:03 pm**

Propane57 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:47 pm Not the correct switch Dave. The one in the picture is the correct one I believe. If I have my tractor serial correct with the correct parts book.

Noel

That is a 4 prong 4 position switch , which it the right one for you Case 446 . But will not work in the MF 16 . I have some old non orange stuff out back I am going to look at . all battery ignition I have are 3 position . The 222 has 4 wires but it is a 5 prone switch , so maybe it will work . It would help to know what the 5th terminal is .

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:15 pm**

But could wire it to make it work maybe Dave.

Noel

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:45 pm**

I agree with Dave. A magneto switch connects "M" to ground in off position to stop engine. A 5 pin switch gets one terminal connection that must to ground (external to switch) so switch can be used in a plastic dash panel, or safety interlock so no start if deck is engaged. I just went through this with my neighbour, he connected the magneto shut-down wire to positive and coil stop working (permanently). Not 100% sure that's what killed coil, but coil didn't work after he re-wired, and coil kill to positive is what I found.

Posted: **Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:27 pm**

This is how that magneto ignition switch is hooked up in the MF 16 tractor. Son got the melted wires fixed up and she’s running again. Was nothing wrong with the switch, other than the key keeps falling out. So still on the hunt for a switch.
He just messaged me and just finished cutting the grass with the MF 16.

Noel

Posted: **Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:24 pm**

Propane57 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:27 pm This is how that magneto ignition switch is hooked up in the MF 16 tractor. Son got the melted wires fixed up and she’s running again. Was nothing wrong with the switch, other than the key keeps falling out. So still on the hunt for a switch.
He just messaged me and just finished cutting the grass with the MF 16.

Noel

That switch is labled wrong . It is a battery ignition switch for sure . If it was a magneto switch, the M and G would only be in contacted with each other in Off position and neither would have contact with any other at any time .
I emailed indak switch company to see about buying R464A switch retail and if they had Mower manufacture #s that we could purchase it by . Hopefully they will come up with one of the Case part numbers from say a 80's 446 or something like that .

Posted: **Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:11 pm**

Well that could be very well there Dave. That it’s a battery one. I’m not right up on that stuff so I can’t say.
Hopefully Indak gets back to you. To bad there’s no part number on them, so a fella could figure something out. Would make for more sales for them in a way. Which is what the world is all about.

Have a good Saturday evening Dave. I’m listening to my favourite county music show on the radio, CFCY. 6:00 pm till 9:00 pm.
Can’t stand the modern so called county music. That’s just me.

Noel

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:21 am**

Glad it got fixed! Im sure you can find a switch that works Noel, but sometimes you need to search a lot.

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:52 pm**

Was at the MF dealer here today to order water pump for my Tea20 Ferguson tractor. And should have one Thursday or Friday.

Any way gave them the part number for the key switch for the MF 16 tractor. Subs to different number, but he says he can get it. But, $66.00 plus shipping and taxes. Ouch. So I’ll keep looking. But at least it available. And not sure if it’s 4 position.

Noel

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:56 pm**

Propane57 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:52 pm Was at the MF dealer here today to order water pump for my Tea20 Ferguson tractor. And should have one Thursday or Friday.

Any way gave them the part number for the key switch for the MF 16 tractor. Subs to different number, but he says he can get it. But, $66.00 plus shipping and taxes. Ouch. So I’ll keep looking. But at least it available. And not sure if it’s 4 position.

Noel

What's the new part number?

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:59 pm**

Sadly I didn’t get it. I’ll try to remember when I pick up pump. That’s what happens when you get older.

Noel

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:37 pm**

Yeah, if they give it to you then you can find the cross reference or something equivalent.

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:25 pm**

Hehe. If you have the part number, they will give you a 4% discount. I got the 4% off the water pump. Woo hoo. But that’s good.

Noel

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:45 pm**

So if you don't have the part number they punish you basically.

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:49 pm**

Well what ever way you want to look at it Eugen.

Noel

Posted: **Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:45 am**

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:45 pm So if you don't have the part number they punish you basically.

They charge you for the time to look it up . It is built into the pricing of parts . The parts person needs to get paid some how .
So if you do it for them , you save .

Posted: **Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:56 am**

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:45 am They charge you for the time to look it up . It is built into the pricing of parts . The parts person needs to get paid some how .
So if you do it for them , you save .

Each industry has its own quirks it seems, and when you're not familiar with that industry their way of doing something may appear strange. I just found this unusual because I never heard of such a thing. As Noel says, it depends how you look at it. The glass is half empty or half full.

Posted: **Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:50 am**

I kinda figured that’s why the discount. And saves them time too. So they can move on to the next customer. Never heard of it before here. And maybe if you go back to return the part, they can say. You supplied the part number and charge a restocking fee.

Noel

Posted: **Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:14 am**

Ok. New part number for a ignition switch for a MF 14/16 garden tractor is:

S27 414 V91

Noel

Posted: **Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:42 am**

Some people say that switch 925-3021 is equivalent. I don't know..

Posted: **Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:02 pm**

Seems to me you could use a mag start switch for an automotive type ignition, by connecting the ignition wire to the "L" terminal. I would have thought that the lights would go off while cranking, but this schematic shows lights are on while cranking.

BTW, I connected lights to the "L" terminal and through a dash switch. That way I can turn lights on and off with dash switch, but if I forget, they will go off when I turn tractor off.

Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

Ignition switch trouble. HELP.

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