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Re: Adding a spool valve
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:50 am
by thebuildist
DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:48 pm
Maintains GPM to your standards for your priority application.
Allows you to redirect oil to a secondary application.
The Priority Flow Divider Valve from Buyers Products splits the oil from a single inlet into two separate flows, ensuring that your oil flow is maintained at the proper GMA regardless of load variations.
This is another way of say pressure constipated . Yes that will do what you want.
I don't think you will need a bigger pump . Remember you most likely will not be working the loader cylinders during full speed so there will be plenty of GPM to go around . You will be surprised just how little GPM cylinders require compared to motors . GPM make motors work / PSI make cylinders work .
Dave
Thanks, Dave, that's very encouraging!
I can't wait to get it piped in and see how it is. The whole PB port thing is tantalizing. But I'm going to go with the sure thing for now.
Bob
Re: Adding a spool valve
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:55 am
by Timj
thebuildist wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:28 am
Gordy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:19 pm
Tim,
Is this what you were talking about?
TCV with PB Colored Diagram.png
Cheers,
Gordy
Ok, that's awesome! I presume it's from one of the Hydro manuals. Which one? I need to compare it to an "non PB" valve to be sure that there are no differences other than the machined PB port and the inserted adapter.
I've just done some analysis, and my hunch was correct: The valve dumps all open centered flow out the PB port. In addition, any "Travel Spool" flow, any flow running through the travel motor, is also dumped out the PB port. Any flow through the mid-lift cylinder ports just dumps back to tank. So kinda specially made to pair with that other spool valve downstream. But the valve downstream doesn't need to be special. It's just a normal spool valve.
So now I'm a little torn. I have an extra TCV sitting on the shelf from my old 442. I'm tempted to set it up and machine that port in it. (pending confirmation that the other valve internals are the same) But do I really want to go to the work of installing a non-holding valve TCV on my tractor?
In the later years Ingersoll abandoned this approach. Is that because the integrated holding valve makes this approach unworkable? Can anyone confirm the existence of a TCV with both integrated holding valve and a PB sleeve/port? My current late model TCV has a port labelled "PB" and has a fitting screwed into it. But it's just a little bitty fitting where the PS valve returns to tank. The port isn't machined large enough to receive a PB sleeve, and it's certainly not functioning in a PB fashion.
But this is intriguing.
It's from one of the 2 "Hydraulic System and how it works) manuals. I can't get it to upload right now. The larger file has the color images, the smaller one seems more detailed, no color. I think it's in the same manual your hydraulic layout image is from.
Re: Adding a spool valve
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:05 pm
by Gordy
Ok, that's awesome! I presume it's from one of the Hydro manuals. Which one? I need to compare it to an "non PB" valve to be sure that there are no differences other than the machined PB port and the inserted adapter.
It was posted in a thread on the other group several years ago, I saved the picture but not the link
I have not been able to find that post yet. I did find this pdf of a 600 TCV.
file:///media/fuse/drivefs-86594500e0b2323e7e1034b515ce83ae/root/travel%20control%20valve0001.pdf
Gordy
Re: Adding a spool valve
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:22 pm
by Eugen
Re: Adding a spool valve
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:54 pm
by Spike188
@thebuildist Post by thebuildist » Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:56 pm
Bob said, "I posted this at the (other) site and got a single private response. I was hoping for more points of view. "Safety in many counselors" and all that. Maybe people are more knowledgeable here on this site. "
Bob, it looks like you came to the right place.
Spike
Re: Adding a spool valve
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:31 pm
by thebuildist
Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:22 pm
Having seriously considered to build a loader for my 446 I have gone down this path of thinking too, but did not delve so deep. Interesting discussion.
I don't know how much the regular TCV differed over the years, but here's one from the Ingersoll Hydraulic System - How It Works manual, page 37
https://manuals.ccigt.com/ServiceManual ... marked.pdf
Screen Shot 2021-11-18 at 12.17.36 PM.png
vs
tcvpb.png
Tried to overlap the images in gimp but obviously my skillz suckz
tcv-tcvpb.png
so drill a hole, turn a sleeve on the lathe, and Bob's your uncle
but the real question is... x,y coordinates of the center of the hole, and z axle orientation
That overlay is actually pretty nice. And shows that the valves are substantially identical. The x coordinates of the whole shouldn't be too hard to work out. Just use the same x reference as the existing spools sticking out the end. And the existing holes on the other side. They should all share the same x value I would expect.
For a y value it's tempting to drill a 3/8" hole at your best dead reckoning of center. And then try to probe the interior of that hole to make a judgment of how close you are to center of the already existent hole down inside of there. The only trick then is getting your final hole on the center you want despite the fact that the whole you've already drilled is trying to pull you one way or the other. 'Probably use something like a half inch end mill to get around that.
Then measure to choose a the axis depth. Since you'll be making your own sleeve, you just have to choose a depth that's deep enough but not too deep. Probably of a full 1/4" range that's workable.
Re: Adding a spool valve
Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:35 pm
by Jancoe
Bob, I have a 600 series tcv with P.B. sitting in a box. In the next day or 2 I can get some pics up and some measurements of the p.b. hole and what not if you'd like.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Re: Adding a spool valve
Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:05 pm
by thebuildist
Jancoe wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:35 pm
Bob, I have a 600 series tcv with P.B. sitting in a box. In the next day or 2 I can get some pics up and some measurements of the p.b. hole and what not if you'd like.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
I'd really appreciate that!
If you're inclined to unscrew the PB sleeve and measure the od and distance from the face to the o ring, that would help a lot too.
Bob
Re: Adding a spool valve
Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:24 pm
by Spike188
This is from an
ad posted on Kijiji. It is a novel way of controling flow to an aftermarket loader.
Spike
There is more than one way to skin a cat.
Re: Adding a spool valve
Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:37 pm
by Eugen
@Spike188 what is different about this one?