Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

Timj said: As for distance I don't know, some of the OEM chutes are getting some incredible distance.


Thrower and blower design has something to do with that for sure, but I wonder if it’s the type of snow that is thrown. Wet, damp, dry, blown drifts or fall straight down, grainy snow, powder snow, ice pellets mixed in, freezing rain on top, many different types of snow we deal with, would all make a difference.

Berco snow blowers seem to throw very well, but built the same as other snow blowers. I could never figure out why they are that much better. Any body know ?

Noel

Propane57 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:36 am Timj said: As for distance I don't know, some of the OEM chutes are getting some incredible distance.


Thrower and blower design has something to do with that for sure, but I wonder if it’s the type of snow that is thrown. Wet, damp, dry, blown drifts or fall straight down, grainy snow, powder snow, ice pellets mixed in, freezing rain on top, many different types of snow we deal with, would all make a difference.

Berco snow blowers seem to throw very well, but built the same as other snow blowers. I could never figure out why they are that much better. Any body know ?

Noel

Two stage , most of the power is directed to fan speed . Auger only feeds . But more expensive to manufacture heavier, larger, and more parts to ware out. So there is pluses and minuses to both.

Dave

Did Case ever build a two stage snow blower ?

Noel

Seems to me though, that the with same size two stage blower you won't be able to throw snow and travel as fast as with the one stage.

Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:34 am Seems to me though, that the with same size two stage blower you won't be able to throw snow and travel as fast as with the one stage.

On one hand the high speed and power dedicated to the impeller fan of the 2 stage should through farther .

On the other hand there is less moving parts and gear boxes that rob power in a single stage .

Now factor in the fact that All snow thrower/ blowers are two stage these days the engineers that design them must have a reason .

The only way to know for sure would be a head to head test off the same tractor in the same snow .

Dave

Propane57 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:36 am Timj said: As for distance I don't know, some of the OEM chutes are getting some incredible distance.


Thrower and blower design has something to do with that for sure, but I wonder if it’s the type of snow that is thrown. Wet, damp, dry, blown drifts or fall straight down, grainy snow, powder snow, ice pellets mixed in, freezing rain on top, many different types of snow we deal with, would all make a difference.

Berco snow blowers seem to throw very well, but built the same as other snow blowers. I could never figure out why they are that much better. Any body know ?

Noel

The type of snow definitely is a big factor. Think about the weight of different snows. My first round this winter we had 3-4" then rain then 3" more on top. With my weak hydraulic motor, my caster didn't like it. The first pass through was ok, but re-blowing it was a challenge.

The Berco design seems to be very efficient. They use to offer a mule for Case/Ingersoll.

I have never seen a Case/Ingersoll branded 2-stage. I'm really surprised with their proximity to
Ariens, that they didn't partner with them for an optional 2stage.

My LGT165 Ford came with a blower when I bought the set up 17 years ago. Blower worked good, rolled up flyers at the end of the driveway, no problem, right thru, hehe. Any way, a lot of breakdowns on the blower. Drive system is just crazy. If any of ever saw one you’d know what I mean. Two 90 degree gear boxes. Power change direction 4 times from the engine to impeller. Blower is heavy. Hard on the steering system. Broke front left spindle, steering box twice and drag link. All from twisting and metal fatigue. Started looking for a thrower about 4 years ago. Found one, luckily, fixed it up and used it. Thrower, less weight less moving parts, less changes in power direction and closer to the tractor, which helps the steering system.
I will say the thrower works just as good throwing snow as the blower did.

Noel

Propane57 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:45 am My LGT165 Ford came with a blower when I bought the set up 17 years ago. Blower worked good, rolled up flyers at the end of the driveway, no problem, right thru, hehe. Any way, a lot of breakdowns on the blower. Drive system is just crazy. If any of ever saw one you’d know what I mean. Two 90 degree gear boxes. Power change direction 4 times from the engine to impeller. Blower is heavy. Hard on the steering system. Broke front left spindle, steering box twice and drag link. All from twisting and metal fatigue. Started looking for a thrower about 4 years ago. Found one, luckily, fixed it up and used it. Thrower, less weight less moving parts, less changes in power direction and closer to the tractor, which helps the steering system.
I will say the thrower works just as good throwing snow as the blower did.

Noel

I know what you're saying, I look at alot of the newer MTD design 2stage blowers, they've simplified the blower, but the rest of the drive system to work of a vertical shaft motor

Hope you don't mind guys, I've opened a new topic single vs two stage and will move these messages there.

Jumpins, I’ll never find it. Hehe.

Noel

Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:43 am Hope you don't mind guys, I've opened a new topic single vs two stage and will move these messages there.

Not a bad idea, I guess we have a few threads going, all circling around snow blowers.

I can give you some more feedback on my SB48 snowcaster vs my Berco this weekend. For now I will tell you that I tested both back to back in the same snow storm, about 6" of heavy snow. The Snowcaster better than the Berco in terms of moving a huge volume of snow. I was able to run the Snowcaster at a much higher travel speed while clearing a wider width. The Berco on the other hand is able to throw the snow a good 40 feet, well past my driveway. The Snowcaster throws some snow over the driveway, the rest lands on the driveway to be blown again. This is when blowing to the right with the wind.

Chute topic today. I wonder if the opening for the chute on the Case casters is to big to give pressure to push to snow out, to give distance. The Case snowthrower is basically the same as my John Deere snowthrower Case thrower 48”, John Deere 46”. But the Case chute opening is 8” and the John Deere is 6”. The John Deere throws reasonable and snow all stays together and you can place the snow where you want. The hydraulic top chute deflector sure helps with the placing, on the John Deere. Seems to be more pressure out the chute on the John Deere as compared to the Case. Now the John Deere doesn’t throw 40’ feet or anything, but 15/20’ is about normal depending on snow and wind.
Any way. What do you think. Just something to chat about.

Noel

Propane57 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:19 am Chute topic today. I wonder if the opening for the chute on the Case casters is to big to give pressure to push to snow out, to give distance. The Case snowthrower is basically the same as my John Deere snowthrower Case thrower 48”, John Deere 46”. But the Case chute opening is 8” and the John Deere is 6”. The John Deere throws reasonable and snow all stays together and you can place the snow where you want. The hydraulic top chute deflector sure helps with the placing, on the John Deere. Seems to be more pressure out the chute on the John Deere as compared to the Case. Now the John Deere doesn’t throw 40’ feet or anything, but 15/20’ is about normal depending on snow and wind.
Any way. What do you think. Just something to chat about.

Noel

I would agree you about the chute size . One thing I notice is that the Paddles on the JD auger is wider than on the Case . Is there a difference in auger diameter / tip speed between the two ?

Dave

Never measured the augers, but I think the John Deere is a little bigger in diameter. Don’t have clue about tip speed. I guess there’s a way to figure that out maybe ?

Noel

Saw this while looking at you tube this morning. Looks like a reasonable chute.

Noel

I believe that all components factor into the performance of blowers. The engineers had to come up with an optimal performance for a variety of snow conditions.

I agree, narrowing the chute should increase/will increase velocity, until the it becomes overwhelmed and plugs.

@DavidBarkey I think someone on the other forum cut the auger and widened the paddles on a Case blower, but I think the results were very minimal.

Noel has a variety of brands to compare and get information from. Matt will have a good side x side of Berco vs SB48.

I have ran into tip speed references from time to time. It would be very interesting to have a tach on the auger and see what happens during use.

Idea! . Would a vibration tach work on the thrower to get auger rpm. ?

Noel

Picture of two John Deere snow throwers mounted on a chev blazer. Right thrower has the same chute that my John Deere thrower has. The left thrower has the newer tall chute option. The tall chute one throws higher and a little farther, from what I can tell.

Noel

Propane57 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:27 pm Picture of two John Deere snow throwers mounted on a chev blazer. Right thrower has the same chute that my John Deere thrower has. The left thrower has the newer tall chute option. The tall chute one throws higher and a little farther, from what I can tell.

Noel

If anyone ever tells you that you take your tractors to far.....

Timj wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:44 pm I believe that all components factor into the performance of blowers. The engineers had to come up with an optimal performance for a variety of snow conditions.

I agree, narrowing the chute should increase/will increase velocity, until the it becomes overwhelmed and plugs.

@DavidBarkey I think someone on the other forum cut the auger and widened the paddles on a Case blower, but I think the results were very minimal.

Noel has a variety of brands to compare and get information from. Matt will have a good side x side of Berco vs SB48.

I have ran into tip speed references from time to time. It would be very interesting to have a tach on the auger and see what happens during use.

I have an optical tach and will check my 446 and caster when/if I get it finished this year .

Dave

Propane57 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:09 pm Idea! . Would a vibration tach work on the thrower to get auger rpm. ?

Noel

If it is out of balance enough . But the chain going though the sprocket may skew readings . Try it and see what you get , take reading on engine as well . Then we can do some math and see if it jives .

Dave

I had hoped to have some more free time last weekend to post this but that didn't happen. Anyways I'll try and post a few pro's and con's for the SB48 snowcaster and the Bercomac.

I'll start with the Berco.
I recall reading somewhere that the Beroc is designed for tractors with 18-27HP. I've only got a 16HP Vanguard which limits my ability to really load up the Berco. So my opinion is based on not having as much power as I'd like. I have seen the Berco run on a 14HP Vanguard. You just need to take you time with it.
Pro's:
-I'll start with the obvious, snow throwing distance. At low engine loads (3600 RPMs) the Berco throws snow about 40 feet and probably 15-20 feet in the air. This is useful if you need to clear a large area or if you have high snow banks.
-The Berco throw snow past my driveway and most of my house where as the Snowcaster throws most snow beyond my driveway and the rest landing on my driveway has to get moved again. The Berco does take more power to run for a given amount of snow but your not blowing the snow a second time like with the Snowcaster.
-The Berco's auger has teeth on it giving it the ability to chew through a frozen snow bank. I haven't really had the chance to use it for this.
-An electric chute rotation and deflector kit can be purchased for the Berco. The electric chute rotation takes 23 seconds from one side to the other. Its painfully slow at times but precise. The electric chute deflector only takes a few seconds.
-The Berco’s internal drive system is quickly accessed under an easily removed cover (no tools needed). Both the auger and impeller shear bolts are under the cover.
-The Berco can quickly be removed from the mule drive by removing the belt, pulling up two retaining springs an backing away from the Berco. The mule drive can also be used to run Berco’s sweeper attachment with a different idler pulley.
-The install time is longer than the snowcaster but isn’t too bad even with the electric rotation kit.
-The Berco’s chute rotates a bit more than 180° which allows you to throw snow slightly backwards on the right and left sides of the tractor.
-The Berco uses a standard size B series belt. A little beefier than the snowcasters belt.

1.30.22 edit
-The Berco works great in deep powder (15-30") and its very easy to control the travel speed so that the engine is not overloaded.

Con's:
-Available electric chute and deflector kit costs around $300.
-Electrical connections on the electric chute and deflector motors are not sealed connectors. Berco loads up the connectors with dielectric grease.
-The Berco is a left hand chute control. Ingersoll CB34 modern cab is setup for right hand chute control.
-The Berco's left hand chute control support rod nearly hits the front axle on level ground.
-The Berco tends to plow snow at the low snow depths that I typically get. Some of this snow falls off to the side where I’ve already cleared. As the snow gets deeper, the Berco throws the snow just fine. The Berco’s impeller is several inches off the ground which is probably optimal for deep snow. Berco may offer extension wings to help with this? I’m not sure…
-The Berco takes more power to run for a given amount of snow than the Snowcaster and therefore has a slower travel speed.
-The Berco’s drive system is more complex and harder to work on. The auger is chain driven and the impeller is chain driven with a 90° gearbox (if my memory servers me correctly).
-The Berco’s weight is farther forward than the Snowcasters. At times my 4016 struggles to lift the Berco. Other people have had this problem. I haven’t looked into it.

1.30.22 edit
-This is more of a not using it correctly than a Con, I was able to clog the Berco 3 times in deep powder (2.5-3') while only running the engine at 1/3 to 1/2 throttle. No issues in the same conditions at WOT.

Snowcaster pro’s and con’s
Pro’s
-The snowcaster moves a larger volume of snow for a given amount of horsepower compared to the Berco.
-The snowcasters low intake height works great at low snow levels.
-The snowcaster will blow right through the slushiest snow without clogging the chute. (The Berco has never clogged either).
-Simple design, low maintenance.
-Quick and easy to install.
-Available extension wings.

Con’s
-The snowcaster’s throwing distance could be better. Some snow lands in uncleared areas and must be moved again.
-No shear pins. Its possible to break the chain when hitting something.

@MattA Thanks for that write up . In my case it confirms a lot of what I suspected in a head to head comparison.

Dave

A person could put a shear bolt in the drive pulley that is on the drive shaft to the small cog, on the snow caster. I suppose.

Noel

Propane57 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:13 am A person could put a shear bolt in the drive pulley that is on the drive shaft to the small cog, on the snow caster. I suppose.

Noel

Why?

MattA said : -No shear pins. Its possible to break the chain when hitting something.



So you don’t break the chain ! That’s why.

Noel

Oh thanks! I wasn't paying enough attention.

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:34 am Oh thanks! I wasn't paying enough attention.

That's what happens when you buy big expensive toys . Now you can't afford to pay attention .


Dave

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:55 am

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:34 am Oh thanks! I wasn't paying enough attention.

That's what happens when you buy big expensive toys . Now you can't afford to pay attention .


Dave

Yep! Broke now!

I know a fella that bent the auger in a snow caster. I don’t know all the details, but that would be nasty. I’d rather the chain break.

Noel

I'm thinking the chain breaking must be what the engineers felt was the safety for the caster. That many years without a a change says something.
At the speed the auger is spinning, if it stops right now, something has to give. Even if the chain breaks or there was a shear pin, the inertia in the auger could still bend/break something when you hit that piece of firewood.

I ran a steal decoration through my 2stage pto blower last winter. Broke both 5/16" shear bolts in the pto shaft.

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:09 am

It was about a 30" circle of thin plate steel that had cutouts to make a picture of a bass jumping out of the water. Don't know how it got out in the yard.

The John Deere snow thrower has a shear bolt right in the auger. It’s broke a couple over the years.

Noel

Propane57 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:37 am I know a fella that bent the auger in a snow caster. I don’t know all the details, but that would be nasty. I’d rather the chain break.

Noel

Thats why Frankie has a caster housing for a bucket . When I got it , it was bent in a twist and was unable to straighten it properly . I would rattle your teeth loose ,but would not not through snow far because of it .

Dave

Any body ever use a Wheel Horse snow thrower. ? Kind of a different auger. Short or long chute. I don’t like the extensions on it. Or maybe the way the thrower is built. Any way, to me that would just pull you into the bank, if it was deep and sorta hard snow.

Noel