Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

I went to the shop and noticed the 646 on an angle. I walked around the back and noticed a big puddle on the floor and the left rear tire flat. It appears after putting air in the tire whatever was put in the tire for ballast had leaked out on the floor. These tires loaded came on rims that way. It looks clear and feels like water no film on my fingers when wet and rub them together. I mopped up the liquid put it in a container overnight and there was ice on the top today. Could someone have loaded the tires with water? It looks like rusting around the rim has caused leaking around the tire rim seal. Looks like the tire needs to come off and clean up the rim to paint. The reinstall the tire with a tube inside. Harry

the shreader valve failed . This happens when the wrong one is used for liquid filled tires . What ever was in there was not water or it would have frozen before this . Most likely WW fluid . It will protect from freezing but not corrosion . WW fluid will not corrode bear metal like calcium , but still will over time . Even condensation in air filled tires will rust bear metal .
I recommend you take wheels off empty second tire and take them to a rural tire shop and have tubes and ballast pumped in . I do most thing myself , but that one I have the pro do .

I know today when I aired up the tire in was leaking between the tire and rim. I have no experience with loaded tires before these. Does calcium or beet juice have a color? I know washer fluid is usually blue. I’ll probably take the tires off the rims and install tubes. I have combine wheel weights on these rims, so maybe that’s enough weight for my purpose. Please continue to respond. Harry

And I thought I was having a bad day. I was working on a chainsaw.
I’m just about done with chainsaws.

Noel

It could be water. I could see on a tire that size it might not be noticeable if it froze, depending on how much was in it, and how much you use it in cold weather. I don’t know about beet juice, but RV antifreeze has a pink tint, and calcium chloride has a kinda milky look to it. If you get it on you hands it will dry them out and it burns if you get it on a cut.

I agree with pulling the tires off cleaning and painting the rims and going back with tubes. Since you have the combine weights you could just run them and see what you think. You could always get the tubes filled later on if you find you do need more weight.

Straight water isn't uncommon in southern areas. I would doubt anyone up your way did that unless those tires were always in a heated enviroment. They wouldn't freeze up over say an hour while in use, so it would be possible I guess.

Could be a real low concentration of calcium to just prevent freeze, but not so much that it gets that sticky feeling, think ocean salt water. Most of my equipment runs with the calcium, but high concentraion for weight.

Apparently beet juice would have a distinct smell. Haven't been exposed to it yet to know. Probably real sticky too.

Washer fluid always seems to have some kind of color added. Orange, Blue, or Green mostly. Plus you can usually smell the alcohol in it. As mentioned RV anti-freeze is Pink.

At this point I’m guessing water since it started to freeze overnight. I usually do not use this tractor in winter, it stays in the lean to with no heat. I know it’s going to be a messy job but some are like that. I have a manual tire machine and an engine cherry picker to lift the tire and rim up. Again part of the challenge is in planning the job without hurting my body to much. At my age it’s starting to hurt doing all the things I love to do. Harry

Sorry to hear about that @Harry. It could be that liquid they use to winterize boats and RVs with. It freezes but it doesn't expand. It tends to be even cheaper than washer fluid. Though, it's normally coloured.

I was in a dollar tree store the other day. I see they had WW fluid for $1 a gallon. Tubes on Amazon two for $60. Not sure what route I’m going yet. Still time before I jump into that job. Harry

Rim Guard is beet juice. I went to Green Tractor to get Beet juice, I heard it was heavier than window wash. They said they didn't carry Beet juice any longer because it corrodes rim, lol. They sold me Wheat juice. Cost a fortune and was sticky and stinky. I used my neighbour's tire machine and we had to pressure wash it afterwards as it was all sticky (he was pissed). I first put WW in tires 20 years ago, still good, so I'm going to keep using it.

I know the beet juice is about as heavy as the calcium. Supposedly it wasn't corrosive. It is/was expensive in comparison. I had it put in the 444's tires when I went to ags. Shop didn't want to put in tubes, but I insisted. Honestly the danger of corrosion is a bit blown out of proportion in my opinion. The equipment here has been here for over 50 years now. We've had to replace 4 rims across 4 machines I believe. All those tractors were old when we got them, and all came with the calcium. Corrosion only starts if the tube has an internal failure.

I've only seen a couple references to the wheat juice. No idea how it compares for weight. I believe the washer fluid is lighter than water by a bit. It all helps, so go with what you're comfortable with.

FUTZ wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 4:07 pm Rim Guard is beet juice. I went to Green Tractor to get Beet juice, I heard it was heavier than window wash. They said they didn't carry Beet juice any longer because it corrodes rim, lol. They sold me Wheat juice. Cost a fortune and was sticky and stinky. I used my neighbour's tire machine and we had to pressure wash it afterwards as it was all sticky (he was pissed). I first put WW in tires 20 years ago, still good, so I'm going to keep using it.

Almost sounds like they were playing you, I am not familiar with wheat juice and really haven't found any reference to it when searching online, only some tire sealant products at nearly $50/gal. As far as I know, beet juice is non-corrosive, however I would prefer to have it installed in an innertube.

Beet juice is stinky and sticky, was the fluid they sold you red in color?

Bob

After mopping it off the floor, I put it into a container which I took a pick of. The pink container seems to change the color. Harry

Doesn't seem to be much on the wheat product, but it might be the basis of the Bio-Ballast product I'm seeing reference to. The SDS doesn't give you any infe. The Google AI links them, but doesn't tell me where it got that info and that's wrong so often, I'd like to see the source.

Saw this on a FB group I follow and thought it was worth sharing -
Knowing you are handy making sparks and sticking steel together
thought it might be easier than using an engine hoist for changing loaded tires in the shop... Creative use of a trailer jack for the hoist mechanism add some casters and a splash of paint - It almost looks store bought!
Definitely something I would consider when I have a shop to work in...
(The floor in the BigSky Shop is a little rough and tumble for this - probably end up using my "off-road" engine hoist instead...)

Looks like a great idea for installing a wheel and tire on a GT. I usually just raise the GT up or lower it to install. I’m more concerned about turning the tire horizontal and lifting it onto a tire removal machine. I have solicited a friend to help me with that. Harry

Today was the day to take the tire off and do damage control. A lot of work for grandpa, but between the HF engine picker and the HF tire changer, the job is well under way. Both the HF pieces of equipment were my sons left back when he moved to Oregon about 15 years ago. There were two plan B moments and one plan C when the liquid that was left in the tire came out and was running all over the floor. Grab rags and mop up. All the dirty work is now. Tire all cleaned and ready to install and wheel all cleaned and primer painted. Let it set until Monday after Easter and go again. Harry

Tire and wheel back on tractor. Harry

Harry do those tires ever spin?

MattA wrote: ↑Mon Apr 21, 2025 10:51 pm Harry do those tires ever spin?

Why do you ask?

Harry , how much air pressure you run it those ? You don't seam to have any side wall squat .

The sidewall reads 20 psi for off road use, so I put in 20 lbs. I still have to install the weights. The combine weights are 130 lbs and I have a 50 lbs weight between the wheel and combine weight. The weights I most recently purchased are also 130 lbs. They are dished and fit over the combine weights. So a little over 300 lbs per side to be added. Then I’ll see how much squat there are on the tires. Harry

That looks like a lot of weight... In reality it isn't bad (apart from actually handleing them)
My loader unit (former BH) has the 500# backhoe weight hanging on the rear, and then at one point I had to add 2 - 50# Deere wheel weights to each side to get to 700# plus me. Kinda goofy sticking out like that, but without it, the rears were spinning due to the big load I was dealing with up front, and the kinda muddy conditions.

I have had Beet Juice in my tires for my 448 for 5-6 years. Very thick and sticky, smells like beets! I ran it in my rear tires for 4 years with tubes. I thought they had put tubes in the front tires, also. But when I was moldboard plowing and the RH tire got cranked hard in the furrow it leaked some juice. Smelly and dark brown! I took another set of fronts to the same tire shop, different guy working that day and he stated they wouldn't load GT fronts with beet juice anymore. I asked why with tubes they wouldn't do it. He said that with most GT tires they couldn't get the valve stems where they needed them to be in order to put tubes in them. Told me that my fronts with beet juice in them would have been done w/o tubes. I had been told that they had installed tubes prior to the beet juice. Developed a bad leak in the one front tire a year ago when I leaned on the sidewall pretty had, again, and tire came loose w/o a tube inside.

The reason I got rid of the rears with Beet Juice was my cousin who has a 6018 had finally worn his tires out and didn't want to put new tires on BC he didn't use the machine that much. I had told him that the 16 inch tires from a 400 machine should fit. Long story/short - he talked me out of my rears with Juice in them in exchange for A rear mounted RM48 deck, that needed some repair.

So my tires with Juice in them are on his 6018, with a pair of the original steel weights for the 6018 on each side didn't slipped at all when he had a bucket full of snow.

I have enough weights for my 448 when I Moldboard plow/or till to hold it down. Or when I use my 4020 to do the same thing!

Harry wrote: ↑Tue Apr 22, 2025 5:27 am

MattA wrote: ↑Mon Apr 21, 2025 10:51 pm Harry do those tires ever spin?

Why do you ask?

Curiosity

Painted wheel weights today with a quart I found at a garage sale last summer. Harry

The beet juice is brown and stinks a bit like a beet that sat around for a while.

It does weigh more than other options that I know of. It weighs over 11 pounds per gallon. It may seem pricey, but unless you get a very good deal on steel weights, and then being able to find them is the other issue. The most premium benefit of liquid ballast is that it has the lowest center of gravity, and it is not part of the rotating mass, so there is no extra strain on the drive system, except for the extra traction you will get.

Your tire store that will not put beat juice or inner tubes into the front wheels is too ignorant to know that they are stupid, literally. They make tubes with valve stems offset from the radial round of the tire for the placement of where the valve stem comes through the rim. Then, on top of that, only Rim Guard is known to blow the brass out of a rubber valve stem, and it does not matter if it is in a tube or in the rim. Then, on top of that, they do make all brass and all stainless steel valve stems for the rims. They also make the steel or brass valve stems for most inner tubes as well.

Then, Harry, you only use the maximum pressure in tires if you are running the stated maximum weight for the tire. Your picture with the tires shows that you are way over-inflated on your tires.

In the off-road community, you would not be allowed on the trails or hills unless you were running about 4 psi max on those tires. I have 4-ply ag tires on my 4020PS with Beet Juice, and the inner combine weighs 104 lbs each. I have inner tubes with steel valve stems and bead-glued tires. I only have about 2 psi using an ATV tire gauge with a max of 20 psi.

I have a State of Michigan ORV park on Lake Michigan that I have enjoyed many times. The difference in traction from 16 psi to 12 psi is pronounced, even in tires that had max psi at 50. Until the last twenty years, every vehicle I bought was 4WD, and I installed lift kits on all of them. I also went from P-rated tires to LT and more ply tires on each of them. On none of the lifted vehicles with big truck-rated tires was I anywhere near the normal 32 psi on the road. You used the vehicle tire sticker to calculate the original weight per axle against the maximum weight capacity of the original P-rated tires to get the manufacture weight design per axle and then extrapolate that to the larger and more ply and more weight capacity to figure out what psi to run on the street that would carry the same as the original tires. Normally, my street pressure was 15-20 psi. That really depended on how much bigger the tire was. That also depended on how much money I was willing to spend. If I went with really big tires and a really big lift-kit, then I also had to change out the gears in the front and rear diffs. That was even more math.

But I would guess that those big tires would be just fine at around 8 psi. And you will love the ride much more. Right now, your contact patch is screaming way over-inflated.

I have a front-mount Grasshopper. Those tires are at 6 psi, stock size, and exactly the original tire. Yet the forums are filled with guys wanting air-ride seats. I do not need an air ride seat. I have air ride tires. The ride gets bouncy at times, but it rarely is harsh. Down by the shoreline, I have some rough spots made by the wildlife. I do not think it is active any longer, and I just need to remember when I am out there with the loader that I need to fill and smooth that.

There has to many projects that have taken priority to finish the 646 tires and wheel weights. Cutting grass for one and starting new evergreen cuttings for two. Sooner or later I’ll get the weights on adjust tire pressure and I’ll post some pics. Spring is in full bloom in my backyard. Harry

@ssmewing good point on tire pressure. On my big tractors I think max psi is something like 35 or 40. I run right around 12psi in them. I can’t remember what I have in my garden tractors. Might have to play around with that.

Just made that point to my daughter when her husband put all of the tires on her Ford Escape to 40# because that's what it said on the sidewall.

Bob

myerslawnandgarden wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 10:32 pm Just made that point to my daughter when her husband put all of the tires on her Ford Escape to 40# because that's what it said on the sidewall.

Bob

Just tell them that the guys who went to school for at least 4 years and have extensive experience have put a sticker on the door well, saying what the tire pressure should be.

There are very active forums on everything off-roading. Tire pressure on there is almost like which oil here. The tire makers do agree with the formula used by off-roaders that need street pressure and off-road pressure. The street pressure is pure math. You use the stock tires and the tire's maximum load at whatever pressure, and that gives you the percentage of the load rating the factory wanted. Then you have to use two calculations for the very stiffer and higher load tires to first reduce the load rating to the equivalent of the original street tires, and then take that and reduce the pressure to get to the load expected by the engineers of the vehicle specs. It usually is something around 16 psi. That makes many guys a bit squeamish, and they usually round up to 20 psi.

On the sand dunes, tire pressure makes a huge difference. Once I went into town with my Ford Excursion, and I aired it back up to 16 psi for the road. The next morning, I wanted to go out on the dunes again, but also knew that we were going to town again. I only lowered it to 12 psi, and I could barely move. So, I had to lower them to 8 psi, which was my normal. The tires were bead-glued, so I did not have to worry much about unseating the tires. Then, on a different trip, in the same truck, it would not go into 4WD. Of course, everything is now just a wire to a computer that goes to the fuse panel to pick up bigger wires and current. My ECM was bad. No 4WD. I wondered if I needed it for just the small hills and the trails. I did not need it. It drove around just fine. That truck was so fun, I added a locker in the rear, and playing in the mud and snow was so fun. I miss having a locker or posi and rear wheel drive.