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Re: Case 646 Poor Condition, Whats it Worth
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 2:04 pm
by Eugen
oliver244 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:23 pm
Forgive me for a "What's it Worth" post.
I know location, condition, etc has a lot to do with price.
So I've had a Case Loader on my Wish List for a long time. They rarely pop up for sale around me, or within Texas for that matter.
This one just popped up. Their asking $1250
From the pictures I can see:
THE BAD
All 3 cylinder rods are rusted beyond use. New cylinders Est $800
Hydraulic hoses look sun rotten
Engine missing intake and carb, probable a basket case. $2000 or more
Tires are worn and at least one off its rim Est $700
Seat is shot $150
THE GOOD
Loader bucket is straight
overall tractor is straight doesn't look abused, just neglected.
Has a weight box.
Not overly rusted.
I've done a couple of Wheel horse full nut and bolt restoration's.
But this would be the biggest project I've thought about taking on.
I have a mid 60's White/Oliver 2-44 Industrial Loader backhoe that I did quite a bit on, and have at the family farm.
(hence my user name "Oliver 2-44")
So I know how useful even a small loader could be around the house and a few acres.
But its a beast to haul back and forth a 100 miles.
Let know what you think
I've had to do similar work on a 644 about a year and a half ago. My approximate costs might be of use to you:
* I got four rod stock from a local hydraulic shop, total cost around $180; the machining of the rods, basically the thread on the piston end cost me about $100; I cut the eyelet off from the old rod and welded it myself on the new rods
* all seals for full overhaul of the three cylinders, from hercules, about $150
* got rims from
@Spike188 traded for 400 series rims
* got old tires from
@Spike188 for free, but bought tubes for them, around $60
* I got a Kohler K321 engine locally for $100
The loader structure needed quite a bit of fixing, welding, grinding, etc., but it cost nothing as I've done that myself. Many hours of work, which you only get value from if you use the loader yourself, not if you're selling it. I'm still happy to have done it.
Re: Case 646 Poor Condition, Whats it Worth
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 4:36 pm
by oliver244
The Case 644 used a 14hp Kohler K321 single cylinder engine.
I have 2 Kohler 16hp k341's which have the same size block.
How much would have to change to install one of my k341's
Re: Case 646 Poor Condition, Whats it Worth
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 7:54 pm
by Eugen
oliver244 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 4:36 pm
The Case 644 used a 14hp Kohler K321 single cylinder engine.
I have 2 Kohler 16hp k341's which have the same size block.
How much would have to change to install one of my k341's
I was undertaken the impression that the frames are identical between 646 and 644 of the same age. Can any of you guys confirm? If anything I'd venture to say it would be a minimal effort.
Re: Case 646 Poor Condition, Whats it Worth
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 9:12 pm
by sdunt
Swapping in a Kohler Single 14 hp should be fairly easy, the big plus is that mufflers and exhaust systems for a K321 in a 64x already exist. you don't have to engineer some kind of custom exhaust.
Re: Case 646 Poor Condition, Whats it Worth
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:31 pm
by myerslawnandgarden
I can't give very accurate information on the spot, but I can tell you the the K321 and K341 blocks are entirely different, the K341 has a much higher crankshaft height for example. Not sure how it compares to the CCKA. Nothing is impossible, given enough time and effort. I would suggest that the pto side of the K341 will not accept the standard pump mount as used on the GT's and 644. that bracket would have to be fabricated and the frame modified to get the crankshaft height correct. Also, the Kohlers used on the Case/Ingersoll models all were narrow blocks with the modified oil pan as designated by the "A" after the K321 etc. K341's were never offered that way so all have the 2 quart pan which gives you an even higher crankshaft position before even considering the taller block.
Bob
Re: Case 646 Poor Condition, Whats it Worth
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2024 9:09 am
by Harry
I have both a 644 and a 646. I will take some measurements and report bac. The 644 has a K321 and the 646 has a CCK Onan but has been repowered with a Honda OHV 20hp. The frames are both stock no fabrication changes on either.
Harry
Re: Case 646 Poor Condition, Whats it Worth
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2024 11:15 am
by Eugen
The usual Case deployed k321 only needs 4 holes in the frame to bolt the engine down. Worst case scenario you just drill the holes yourself. The bolts are 3/8 I believe.
Re: Case 646 Poor Condition, Whats it Worth
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2024 11:17 am
by Eugen
myerslawnandgarden wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:31 pm
I can't give very accurate information on the spot, but I can tell you the the K321 and K341 blocks are entirely different, the K341 has a much higher crankshaft height for example. Not sure how it compares to the CCKA. Nothing is impossible, given enough time and effort. I would suggest that the pto side of the K341 will not accept the standard pump mount as used on the GT's and 644. that bracket would have to be fabricated and the frame modified to get the crankshaft height correct. Also, the Kohlers used on the Case/Ingersoll models all were narrow blocks with the modified oil pan as designated by the "A" after the K321 etc. K341's were never offered that way so all have the 2 quart pan which gives you an even higher crankshaft position before even considering the taller block.
Bob
Bob, I don't think the k341 was considered by myself, also hardly needed those extra 2hp. My 644 had plenty of power with the k321 power plant.
Re: Case 646 Poor Condition, Whats it Worth
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2024 6:01 pm
by Harry
I agree with Eugen about the power of the K321 to run the hydraulics. The 644 lbh with the K321 has plenty of power for all functions.
Harry
Re: Case 646 Poor Condition, Whats it Worth
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2024 8:38 pm
by MattA
Kind of off topic, how much power does it take to max out the loader/backhoe hydraulic system? Two of you guys stated the 644 has plenty of power but case built a 646 and a 648. Did the 646 and 648 get a larger pump (and power steering)? Really off topic, same question for the 6000 and 7000 series.