EZ clutches

[DavidBarkey]

So one thing I did not mention in my posting on bearings was that I had bought those in the early part of the year and not, say last week. Still no excuse but just saying.
So today I called into Harbor Freight, in Webster NY, and bought a O-Ring hook scribe set to remove the seal on one of the Tritan bearings and also bought a set of 3/8 drive SAE long reach hex sockets too -

When I opened the Tritan bearings I found LITTLE! to no grease!!!! no wonder the YouTube video says to open and pack. I bought "STP Moly-EP" grease for this purpose and will be doing that in a couple of days unless anyone can recommend a better alternative. Remember I only want to do this once!
A couple of other things I have decided. The first is I have two a 1979 and 1985, (Onan engines B43M and B48M) that I want to fit/replace PTO clutches on. I have decided through members feed back to retain these as manual clutches (EZ PTO Clutch). My other GT has a B&S 18HP engine and is already fitted with an Electric clutch.

After I sent this photo, I opened a second bearing just because.. I found the same thing... one side had a little grease applied but the other side NOTHING! yeah these are China bearings! We could all act out and say well what do you expect?d though that it is the same worldwide and American made bearings are the same. For me from now on I will not assume and open up al my sealed bearings and fill to capacity. As no one responded to my grease type question I will assume that my Moly Grease is good or better. I know the grease used is colored BLUE but Moly grease is black, and for a reason too. I intend to fill the bearings to capacity and let the seals decide the total fill- thank you YouTube!

You need to understand that , 1 That clear grease is synthetic , 2 if the bearing case is "Full" of grease it will expel excess grease when it heats up onto your friction disk , 3 Yes some China Bearings are inferior , but some are top grade and it is all about what the buyer at the factory level is paying for . Sometimes it is a matter of just a little less grease . And since No one else is making them here because labour is to $$ you need to learn to live with it .

[ras101]

So just a question for members here...
When you order parts from a Case/Ingersoll parts supplier what do you expect to get? Pristine stock or are you prepared to take new stock that has quite bad surface rust as I found on shims and washers I ordered?

Just had that happen with the supplier I have been using (look it up on past posts here) Never buying from them again!

When you are dealing with NOS New OLDDDD Stock . there is possibility of surface rust . The fact that you still can get NOS parts in some cases is a miracl in its self .

Dave, i somewhat agree with you but the rust was quite pronounced and the part was actually in worse state than what I was going to replace! IMO there is no reason whatsoever for a new part to be rusty it only takes a spray of oil in the container/bag prior to putting on the shelf and that's not rocket science or costly. Yeah I could de rust the parts before use but that is what I am paying for when I order new parts. I think we, as a community, have just accepted that that is how it is - I for one will not accept that - Too old! BTW, when I sent a message, complaining to the supplier, I got an apology and new "selected" parts for free and the statement that the parts were new stock to them and after exam were not to their quality either! The new parts that they have now sent were from OLD STOCK! Pays to complain...

[ras101]

So one thing I did not mention in my posting on bearings was that I had bought those in the early part of the year and not, say last week. Still no excuse but just saying.
So today I called into Harbor Freight, in Webster NY, and bought a O-Ring hook scribe set to remove the seal on one of the Tritan bearings and also bought a set of 3/8 drive SAE long reach hex sockets too -

When I opened the Tritan bearings I found LITTLE! to no grease!!!! no wonder the YouTube video says to open and pack. I bought "STP Moly-EP" grease for this purpose and will be doing that in a couple of days unless anyone can recommend a better alternative. Remember I only want to do this once!
A couple of other things I have decided. The first is I have two a 1979 and 1985, (Onan engines B43M and B48M) that I want to fit/replace PTO clutches on. I have decided through members feed back to retain these as manual clutches (EZ PTO Clutch). My other GT has a B&S 18HP engine and is already fitted with an Electric clutch.

After I sent this photo, I opened a second bearing just because.. I found the same thing... one side had a little grease applied but the other side NOTHING! yeah these are China bearings! We could all act out and say well what do you expect?d though that it is the same worldwide and American made bearings are the same. For me from now on I will not assume and open up al my sealed bearings and fill to capacity. As no one responded to my grease type question I will assume that my Moly Grease is good or better. I know the grease used is colored BLUE but Moly grease is black, and for a reason too. I intend to fill the bearings to capacity and let the seals decide the total fill- thank you YouTube!

You need to understand that , 1 That clear grease is synthetic , 2 if the bearing case is "Full" of grease it will expel excess grease when it heats up onto your friction disk , 3 Yes some China Bearings are inferior , but some are top grade and it is all about what the buyer at the factory level is paying for . Sometimes it is a matter of just a little less grease . And since No one else is making them here because labour is to $$ you need to learn to live with it .

So on this one Dave. Until I watched the Case tractor NE video on YouTube I would never have thought about checking grease in a sealed bearing!
Because they made such a big deal of checking I did this time and was appalled at what I found. For starters the grease used in the bearings I checked was Blue and not clear and definitely not synthetic and my grease if add is Moly , i.e Black!. It was obvious the bearing had only been filled with grease haphazardly from one side only and the reverse side had NO GREASE WHATSOEVER!. The bearings used on the PTO are sealed and not open so filling the bearing with grease will not only not leak out as you suggest but also the bearing is fitted away from the clutch surface face too. Any leakage, which I doubt will just maintain the surface of the shims and washers and stop them rusting. BTW, I love your input into my posts and find them very informative so I hope I don't offend when I push back a little..Thank you!

[ras101]

So, I mentioned a little while ago about rust. Our EZ PTO clutches are prone to that.. right up front behind the cooler, not painted or protected in any way, etc. So I have ALL these parts, some rusted, some badly, others that just, well you get it!, We also have grip surfaces, somewhat like a brake disk that can and does get contaminated with oil, etc. what do we do? Yeah we could take to cheap approach and try cleaning with say brake cleaner and flattening the surface with sand/emery paper (I thought about that too) but lets face it how many times do you want to do this? for me ONLY once! remember most of what we are going to work on has been working fine for 20-50 years! and its our turn to fix...

So I really, I mean really, took a very critical look at the PTO parts. First thing I did was to select the two best sets that I have! , I must admit they tended to be from the latest parts too, read that as being the most recent (I have at least 4 and often several more sets to choose from). When I looked at the metalwork, most (all) needs major rust removal using chemicals, etc and other treatments so even though the remaining pad thickness is fine I have decided to rebuild totally from scratch . I have bought/ordered new clutch linings, obtained a B&D toaster oven for $14 on Craigslist.. can you see where I am taking this thread...

[RoamingGnome]

@ras101 I think I know where you are going with your recent purchases... have you considered DIY electroplating of your "prone to surface rust" metal parts?
I personally haven't tried the process, but there does seem to be some info on Google and other places. I wonder if it might be more durable than paint or powder coating?
What ever you decide, your rust proofing adventures probably deserve a thread on their own - I'd certainly follow it

[ras101]

@ras101 I think I know where you are going with your recent purchases... have you considered DIY electroplating of your "prone to surface rust" metal parts?
I personally haven't tried the process, but there does seem to be some info on Google and other places. I wonder if it might be more durable than paint or powder coating?
What ever you decide, your rust proofing adventures probably deserve a thread on their own - I'd certainly follow it

That 'safe thought! I did some over 20 years ago but never gave it consideration for this. I will take a look.

[CaseIngersollNE]

Have not been able to come here as often as we have been busy but a few things to touch on. I agree with Bob as the frustration can get real when lots of "good" and "free" advice is given all the time and then when it comes time to support those that helped, often people either conveniently forget or are penny shopping over a little difference in price etc. I say all the time "what was the advice, info given or experiences shared worth?" And at the "time" of your issue or emergency when you were frustrated how much at that time would you have been willing to pay for a answer or solution? I am sure far more than the a little price difference or shipping difference you you find when price shopping, and Auto Zone, Amazon, Mcmaster, EBay etc are not going to answer your questions, give advice, point things out etc. And people always seem to be happy or point out they found something cheaper etc than from a dealer... And When the dealers get frustrated and go away so wont the knowledge as I am sure many will have a bad taste in their mouth. Most of us do this because we have a passion for these tractors and the community and have fun doing it! As truth be told there is not a lot of money in moving parts and the margins are not big at all with these, nothing like auto parts or other businesses. We made a video about who we are and our business model and touches a few times about similar situations about free advice and price shopping and I think can speak for others on this. As we often spend 10 to 15 hours a week on average "fixing other peoples tractors for free" over messenger, emails, texts, phone calls etc. and I do not know anyone who will work 40 plus hours a month for free? So just keep that in mind when you need parts, service etc. That people are spending their time to help. So maybe Amazon is cheaper or someone has better prices, or free shipping or can walk into Napa right away etc, but are they helping you on a forum or group when you post, or answering emails,messages PHONEs at 10 o clock at night and weekends (happens every week/end night...) or can you call Amazon or Mcmaster and get a answer to your tractor question? Bob is a great guy and a great resource and we do a lot together and I am glad to call him a friend above all and most the CI dealers are good people with lots of knowledge to offer. I am glad that us talking about packing new bearings helped you and most do not think about it. We appreciate you watching thank you. In today's world profit comes ahead of all for 99 percent of manufactures. They make bearings and in the business of selling bearings, can we blame them for putting minimum grease in it? Blame no, morally, ethics....another topic. So we at CIT Northeast try to source the best quality for the best price and its a fine line balance to walk and trade off before you pay very little but for junk or or you pay lots, and lots for better quality. We try to source US and or top quality when we can, when available, and when makes financial sense. The market will only support so much as far as what you guys are willing to pay. With most bearings we found no matter where the bearings were made and from what company, very little grease is in them. Also there are garbage over seas parts and there are many good quality ones now a days, so we can no longer lump "made in China" all into the same trash can. Often there are little to no options for some stuff. Our PTO Bearings too are Imported as are the ones Directly from Ingersoll on many items. We found in our opinion better quality bearings than what OEM is now offering and thats what we choose to use and offer for sale in our PTO kits. Sure we all would like top brand and quality. But One, these are garden tractors not race cars so we have to be realistic, second are you guys going to pay $50 or more a per bearing for name brand even when made overseas often, lots to spend for a PTO on a mower? I know the market wont support $150 for 3 PTO bearings for example? When our rebuild kit includes 3 bearings, all new spacers, spring washers and clutch disk for far less than $150.. Ok Lets talk rust. I 100 percent get your point and frustration and feel it too. That said do not blame the dealers. Many, many of the parts that have been coming from Ingersoll and elseware for years now (Bob can better tell you roughly when its changed) now come raw and uncoated un painted, unfinished often and frankly sometimes things with workmanship thats sad... But Thats what we are stuck with and as they say We should be happy we can get anything.. We have thousands and thousands of inventory with surface rust, shelves filled. Now we try to coat and wrap, bag etc what we can and even paint some stuff. But the time and expense to do so and to do more is a lot and at some point is counter productive cost wise for us. The lack of quality control or unfinished products all goes against my old school work ethic and morals and quality control so thats why we often will source some things else-ware even if the cost is a little more as to do best by our customers and pride of our business. But again as dealers we can only do so much on what we receive in. I have probably 20 mower hubs assemblies on the shelf we are talking many thousands of dollars and all covered in surface rust on hubs, spindles and bearings etc....It makes me sick and before we send them out we try to clean them all up once again the best we can or sometimes get paint on them on our own time and expense. Same with tie rods, drag links steering shafts and many other things we have to clean up or coat or paint before shipping out. Its out of our hands and prices for things are high enough so again how much will the market bare and support? Will it support painted and finished items like they use to be? IDK when I see so many play the price shopping and comparison game already. But point is 95 percent of the rust or raw product issues is not on the dealers but manufactures and distributors etc. Ok lets talk PTO quick. SO yes there are different parts used and combination of parts used and sometimes I still shake my head at what I find that should not be there or used when taking them apart. As many are disasters and can not tell you the things we find on PTOs, the things we dont find lol and well sometimes things that look factory and never touched, they worked but according to parts books they are wrong lol. That said what I feel are the biggest differences are the pulleys and what you use for spacers with each style pulley one with a shoulder and one without and I think basically you make up for no shoulder one with spacers etc. The forks are I believe based off the tractor/engine than necessarily anything off the PTO itself. PTO's are over complicatedly simple lol... Once you "get it" they are pretty easy but sometimes we still get aggravated at one from time to time lol. My advice watch our video, and set your PTO up to your pulley style according to parts book and go from there it may work right off the bat. If not then post back lol Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas!

[CaseIngersollNE]

Heres a link to the video about who we are I mentioned above if anyone is interested lol https://youtu.be/IejMcesn8ps?si=fjuX0P9Oq9qOD7Bi

[Harry]

So one thing I did not mention in my posting on bearings was that I had bought those in the early part of the year and not, say last week. Still no excuse but just saying.
So today I called into Harbor Freight, in Webster NY, and bought a O-Ring hook scribe set to remove the seal on one of the Tritan bearings and also bought a set of 3/8 drive SAE long reach hex sockets too -

When I opened the Tritan bearings I found LITTLE! to no grease!!!! no wonder the YouTube video says to open and pack. I bought "STP Moly-EP" grease for this purpose and will be doing that in a couple of days unless anyone can recommend a better alternative. Remember I only want to do this once!
A couple of other things I have decided. The first is I have two a 1979 and 1985, (Onan engines B43M and B48M) that I want to fit/replace PTO clutches on. I have decided through members feed back to retain these as manual clutches (EZ PTO Clutch). My other GT has a B&S 18HP engine and is already fitted with an Electric clutch.

After I sent this photo, I opened a second bearing just because.. I found the same thing... one side had a little grease applied but the other side NOTHING! yeah these are China bearings! We could all act out and say well what do you expect?d though that it is the same worldwide and American made bearings are the same. For me from now on I will not assume and open up al my sealed bearings and fill to capacity. As no one responded to my grease type question I will assume that my Moly Grease is good or better. I know the grease used is colored BLUE but Moly grease is black, and for a reason too. I intend to fill the bearings to capacity and let the seals decide the total fill- thank you YouTube!

You need to understand that , 1 That clear grease is synthetic , 2 if the bearing case is "Full" of grease it will expel excess grease when it heats up onto your friction disk , 3 Yes some China Bearings are inferior , but some are top grade and it is all about what the buyer at the factory level is paying for . Sometimes it is a matter of just a little less grease . And since No one else is making them here because labour is to $$ you need to learn to live with it .

So on this one Dave. Until I watched the Case tractor NE video on YouTube I would never have thought about checking grease in a sealed bearing!
Because they made such a big deal of checking I did this time and was appalled at what I found. For starters the grease used in the bearings I checked was Blue and not clear and definitely not synthetic and my grease if add is Moly , i.e Black!. It was obvious the bearing had only been filled with grease haphazardly from one side only and the reverse side had NO GREASE WHATSOEVER!. The bearings used on the PTO are sealed and not open so filling the bearing with grease will not only not leak out as you suggest but also the bearing is fitted away from the clutch surface face too. Any leakage, which I doubt will just maintain the surface of the shims and washers and stop them rusting. BTW, I love your input into my posts and find them very informative so I hope I don't offend when I push back a little..Thank you!

Ras101, yes I use the black moly grease myself. I posted some pics of my 446 snow machine front end rebuild. I showed how I use a needle tip on a grease gun to fill the bearings. If it has a plastic cover I pop them off and put them back on after greasing. If they have a metal cover I have drilled a very small hole in the metal cover, enough to get the needle inside. Grease then spin the bearing until full. Then I clean the metal cover with solvent snd put a dab of silicone over the hole. This is the only way for myself to have peace of mind that I know the bearings have grease in them. Harry

[Harry]

Have not been able to come here as often as we have been busy but a few things to touch on. I agree with Bob as the frustration can get real when lots of "good" and "free" advice is given all the time and then when it comes time to support those that helped, often people either conveniently forget or are penny shopping over a little difference in price etc. I say all the time "what was the advice, info given or experiences shared worth?" And at the "time" of your issue or emergency when you were frustrated how much at that time would you have been willing to pay for a answer or solution? I am sure far more than the a little price difference or shipping difference you you find when price shopping, and Auto Zone, Amazon, Mcmaster, EBay etc are not going to answer your questions, give advice, point things out etc. And people always seem to be happy or point out they found something cheaper etc than from a dealer... And When the dealers get frustrated and go away so wont the knowledge as I am sure many will have a bad taste in their mouth. Most of us do this because we have a passion for these tractors and the community and have fun doing it! As truth be told there is not a lot of money in moving parts and the margins are not big at all with these, nothing like auto parts or other businesses. We made a video about who we are and our business model and touches a few times about similar situations about free advice and price shopping and I think can speak for others on this. As we often spend 10 to 15 hours a week on average "fixing other peoples tractors for free" over messenger, emails, texts, phone calls etc. and I do not know anyone who will work 40 plus hours a month for free? So just keep that in mind when you need parts, service etc. That people are spending their time to help. So maybe Amazon is cheaper or someone has better prices, or free shipping or can walk into Napa right away etc, but are they helping you on a forum or group when you post, or answering emails,messages PHONEs at 10 o clock at night and weekends (happens every week/end night...) or can you call Amazon or Mcmaster and get a answer to your tractor question? Bob is a great guy and a great resource and we do a lot together and I am glad to call him a friend above all and most the CI dealers are good people with lots of knowledge to offer. I am glad that us talking about packing new bearings helped you and most do not think about it. We appreciate you watching thank you. In today's world profit comes ahead of all for 99 percent of manufactures. They make bearings and in the business of selling bearings, can we blame them for putting minimum grease in it? Blame no, morally, ethics....another topic. So we at CIT Northeast try to source the best quality for the best price and its a fine line balance to walk and trade off before you pay very little but for junk or or you pay lots, and lots for better quality. We try to source US and or top quality when we can, when available, and when makes financial sense. The market will only support so much as far as what you guys are willing to pay. With most bearings we found no matter where the bearings were made and from what company, very little grease is in them. Also there are garbage over seas parts and there are many good quality ones now a days, so we can no longer lump "made in China" all into the same trash can. Often there are little to no options for some stuff. Our PTO Bearings too are Imported as are the ones Directly from Ingersoll on many items. We found in our opinion better quality bearings than what OEM is now offering and thats what we choose to use and offer for sale in our PTO kits. Sure we all would like top brand and quality. But One, these are garden tractors not race cars so we have to be realistic, second are you guys going to pay $50 or more a per bearing for name brand even when made overseas often, lots to spend for a PTO on a mower? I know the market wont support $150 for 3 PTO bearings for example? When our rebuild kit includes 3 bearings, all new spacers, spring washers and clutch disk for far less than $150.. Ok Lets talk rust. I 100 percent get your point and frustration and feel it too. That said do not blame the dealers. Many, many of the parts that have been coming from Ingersoll and elseware for years now (Bob can better tell you roughly when its changed) now come raw and uncoated un painted, unfinished often and frankly sometimes things with workmanship thats sad... But Thats what we are stuck with and as they say We should be happy we can get anything.. We have thousands and thousands of inventory with surface rust, shelves filled. Now we try to coat and wrap, bag etc what we can and even paint some stuff. But the time and expense to do so and to do more is a lot and at some point is counter productive cost wise for us. The lack of quality control or unfinished products all goes against my old school work ethic and morals and quality control so thats why we often will source some things else-ware even if the cost is a little more as to do best by our customers and pride of our business. But again as dealers we can only do so much on what we receive in. I have probably 20 mower hubs assemblies on the shelf we are talking many thousands of dollars and all covered in surface rust on hubs, spindles and bearings etc....It makes me sick and before we send them out we try to clean them all up once again the best we can or sometimes get paint on them on our own time and expense. Same with tie rods, drag links steering shafts and many other things we have to clean up or coat or paint before shipping out. Its out of our hands and prices for things are high enough so again how much will the market bare and support? Will it support painted and finished items like they use to be? IDK when I see so many play the price shopping and comparison game already. But point is 95 percent of the rust or raw product issues is not on the dealers but manufactures and distributors etc. Ok lets talk PTO quick. SO yes there are different parts used and combination of parts used and sometimes I still shake my head at what I find that should not be there or used when taking them apart. As many are disasters and can not tell you the things we find on PTOs, the things we dont find lol and well sometimes things that look factory and never touched, they worked but according to parts books they are wrong lol. That said what I feel are the biggest differences are the pulleys and what you use for spacers with each style pulley one with a shoulder and one without and I think basically you make up for no shoulder one with spacers etc. The forks are I believe based off the tractor/engine than necessarily anything off the PTO itself. PTO's are over complicatedly simple lol... Once you "get it" they are pretty easy but sometimes we still get aggravated at one from time to time lol. My advice watch our video, and set your PTO up to your pulley style according to parts book and go from there it may work right off the bat. If not then post back lol Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas!

CINE, quite the ramble, thanks for taking the time and effort for your thoughts. Harry