May have found the rattle in my Ingersoll 4118

Discussions on restoring tractors.
Seabee United States of America
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:53 am
Location: Coldwater, MI
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 387 times

May have found the rattle in my Ingersoll 4118

Post by Seabee »

I had come to a stop a month or so ago because I couldn't locate the rattle in my 4118 when I was putting it back together. I feared it was engine related, and was praying it wasn't. Besides it was a good time to start pulling soil samples for my consulting clients.

This past Monday was a wet day after it rained. My buddy and I pulled the engine out of the chasis for about the 3rd time after watching the the flywheel, adapter bracket and the Hydraulic pump as it was slowing to a stop. We were trying once again to locate the rattle when the engine was running. We had already pulled the engine and checked the adapter to pump shaft tightness. Satisfied that it was tight, we put the engine back in and started the tractor. Rattle was still there.

Monday Paul and I watched the connection of the items again. And the pump was hopping as we slowed the engine to a stop.

Anyway we pulled the engine, again. When we pulled the adapter off of the pump shaft it appeared the key had been cut down to the shaft and welded there. When we looked into the adapter, one side of it was eaten out where the key was slamming into the inside of it. Apparently that is what cut the top of the key off to the top of the pump shaft. We had quite a time getting what remained of the key out of the slot (remember I said it looked like someone had welded the key into the key way).

We got the key way cleaned up, a new hub, and are waiting for a couple of woodruff keys that fit the hub.

I suspect this time when we put it back together, it won't be rattling. Then I can go about finishing the tractor.

Bill Moyer
Bill Moyer
User avatar
Timj United States of America
Posts: 1438
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:57 pm
Location: Central WI
Has thanked: 5169 times
Been thanked: 4985 times

Re: May have found the rattle in my Ingersoll 4118

Post by Timj »

Well at least you found something, and pulling the motor wasn't a waste of time. Hope it solves the problem.
:geek: Tim
:446cart: let's go, it's finally time to blow. :peace:
ssmewing United States of America
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:03 pm
Location: Hemlock, MI
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 464 times

Re: May have found the rattle in my Ingersoll 4118

Post by ssmewing »

You never take the pump out of the adapter. When you do, you get exactly what you got. You must only remove the pump adapter from the engine.

People re-install the set screws and they never seem to tighten them enough and or insert the shaft far enough. You are very lucky. Often the result is much more destructive. With the key sheared the pump slips and catches. That then sometimes breaks the pump anti-rotation arm. Once that happens other bad things happen. The pump inlet nipple gets pulled out, the pump inlet hose pulls the bottom of the tank out, which then rotates taking out the cooler.

The adapter cannot be reused after the set screw failure, ever. The set screws must be red loctited and tightened with a 3/8" drive hex tool. The simple allen wrenches are not able to apply enough torque to the set screws. The adapter being softer than the pump shaft always must get replaced. The pump adapters are often replaced after the motor is removed or a new motor has been installed. The pump shaft is hard enough that there is no possibility of it bending. It is either straight or broken off.

The Onan has the easiest pump adapter bolts to get to and most people go that route. The VanGuards are the ones that I have replaced the most. But, that is mostly because they are the least robust engine and the cheapest to replace. The adapter for the Kohler-powered tractors is NLA as far as I know.

Even the 3 digit tractors fail in the same way. If the set screws are not tightened enough the coupler will move. Then eventually the coupler will fail.
Seabee United States of America
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:53 am
Location: Coldwater, MI
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 387 times

Re: May have found the rattle in my Ingersoll 4118

Post by Seabee »

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I finally got to fire the engine again this time. Long story short: The new pump adapter and Key, along with Loctite and everything else involved with engine removal is finally done, and the engine and pump system are behaving as they should. No more rattling, runs very quiet for an Onan tractor and system. Now to clean up the new paint, and put final Power Red coat on, then finish with clear coat with 2 step Hardner layer.

It is going to get finished so wife can put her car in this winter!

Bill Moyer
Bill Moyer
Post Reply