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646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:38 pm
by Spike188
This was a purchase made online at 1 AM. Going to bed early does not always pay off, and waking in the middle of the night and checking a Case web site is not recommended "but". A member posted that there was a new listing on FB marketplace and did not have and account. Much to my surprise a pm to the owners daughter at 1 am brought a quick response. It was listed at $2500 CD. Davis backhoe attachments in any condition list at $4,500 CD on kijiji which made this a Buy Now price that couldn't be passed up.
646BH dropped at home.jpg
646BH dropped at home.jpg (883.55 KiB) Viewed 14569 times
By morning at 7:30 the owner said he had 40+ responses to the ad and one person showed up at 7 but declined making and offer due to the amount of work needed to put it back in usable condition. Afraid of loosing it I called a friend with a roll-off and drove 1.5 hours to get.

The first test made was hanging the back hoe off of a forklift and hooking the hydraulic up to a 646L. Because the backhoe requires a "case drain" that was added to the 646L.
Bh test.jpg
Bh test.jpg (577.25 KiB) Viewed 14569 times
That test went well. Then reality set in.

Spike

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:42 pm
by Eugen
Great story so far!

Eugene, by the way, did you see that Case-Davis 430 with loader and backhoe that was for sale at around 6000 on kijiji? I was so tempted, but I didn't know how I could transport it. Plus, it disappeared in about one hour.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:47 pm
by Spike188
I didn't see it. I have noticed them around the Toronto area occasionally.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:52 pm
by Eugen
That looked like twice the machine a 646 is, at less the price. I wish I got it.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:43 am
by Toolslinger
Where did the hoe have a case drain? I've never seen that in a D-100 manual, they've all been plumbed in series with no drain. I had to put a tank line on mine, but that was only because I had to replace the entire stack valve when the end block cracked for some reason...

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:24 am
by Spike188
Tool Slinger, I am not sure about calling it a case drain but there are 3 lines at the hoe.
Hose configuration lables.jpg
I labeled the picture with the terms used in the parts manual.

Spike

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:33 pm
by Toolslinger
I'm going to have to get out to the tractors soon now... I know my early machine only had the two hookups untill I had to work on it. I guess it's possible my later unit has all 3. It's been a while since I had to do anything other than run that one, and it's all tucked behind the weight, so perhaps I'm just not remembering...

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:52 am
by Spike188
5 months ago a rebuild of the hoe spool valve was started.
backhoe valve rebuild.jpg

It took $90.00 worth of o-rings. 4 between each valve, 2 on each spool and 6 on relief valves.
Valve washer r.jpg
Missing was a spool stop washer that is 1" OD X 0.5" ID X 0.155 Thick. This is not something found on the shelf. With covid making it impractical to run out and pick up a solo item, scrounging became the next option.
vavle washer stock.jpg
A 1" bolt was found and cut off at the thread end of the shank.
Valve washer center hole r.jpg
After chucking the donner bolt in the drill press a 0.5" hole was drilled into the shank body, deep enough to get 2 washers if needed.
valve washer slice r.jpg
The washer was sliced off of the shank, and belt sanded to the final finished thickness.

It wasn't a big job but one of those items that became a job stopper.

With that project out of the way, space can be made for starting the engine rebuild.

Spike

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:49 pm
by Eugen
Even a washer is good progress when it's the one thing that blocks you!

How are you able to get such smooth finish on the outside surface of the bolt? Wanted to make something out of a bolt and the best I could do on my small Myford 7 is this, quite rough surface compared to yours.
E00B0304-35B1-4B76-9DCF-8EE6BB3835B4.jpeg

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:53 pm
by Spike188
Emery cloth or sandpaper while spinning in the lathe.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:24 pm
by Timj
That's called "can do attitude"! :thumbsup: took a little time, but the project moved forward. :worship:

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:19 pm
by Spike188
The reassembly of the CCKA has started and will take longer than planned. The block was bored but there are a lot of small details to address.
CCKA port surfaces.jpg
To start with then exhaust and intake ports show signs of casket failure.
CCKA port filing  2.jpg
The filing begins
CCKA port filing 1.jpg
Taking a little off on both sets of ports.
CCKA port filing.jpg
This is being addressed by filing the manifold mating surfaces flat. Getting all of the pits out took some time.
CCKA honing ports.jpg
When the mating surfaces were completed the ports themselves were honed clean and smooth.

Now its off to a service call while the main bearings began chilling in the freezer next to the ice cream.
Which of those will get attention first?

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:29 pm
by Eugen
I like the idea of honing the ports. I will steal it and hone my k321 ports too :violin: :cheers:

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 1:45 pm
by Eugen
Quick question. Are you going to ream the new valve guides after they're in? The manuals says you might have to, but it's unclear to me how you can ream the new guides so accurately. :geek:

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 4:21 pm
by Spike188
I am sending the block to Michael for valve fitting. The seats are a 45 deg angle no more than 3/16" wide. The valves are at 44 deg angle and not lapped. It do not have the tools to do either. There is a box of parts still in transit from Booner that has the job stalled.

Spike

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 11:08 pm
by Spike188
The 4118AH had been sitting on the slab taking up space and creating mental dilemmas. The deck is totally bent and needs spindle bearings before it will even turn. The only reason the tractor was purchased was it was priced right, but now has became a project that needs to be shelved to finish other CCI commitments.
tractors moved to the pad.jpg
Yesterday was the Canada May 24 weekend. With everything closed I did what any bored mechanic would do, clean shop and stage the next project.
A day later being inspired by all of the cleaning, all of the hoe arms, 3 point mount and down rigger parts were taken to the sandblaster for prep and primer. Midafternoon today, the urge to surge on hit.
loader pin jam.jpg
The intent is to use the 646L which is minus motor, travel control valve, loader control valve and other stuff as a donor frame for rebuilding the 646B . The 646L was partial restored with an incorrect red and yellow when a previous owner passed.
brass drift loader pin remove.jpg
This made parts removal much easier but the loader hinge pin was seized in place on the left side loader arm. Driving the hinge pin using brass drive only spread the loader arms. Using a load strap to pull the arms together and lubricating the pin at the hinge was enough to get movement.
hood rod wear.jpg
Wear groves in the rod indicate that it had not been replaced by the PO.
bent steering wheel.jpg
The steering wheel shaft came out easily but the after market wheel is welded on and the shaft was bent. Further inspection indicated that the steering sector is extremely worn. At least there are 2 good wheels on recently purchased 224's and the 646B has a good sector that only needs bushings.
646L banana plate pin weld close.jpg
The banana plate had pins welded in and the travel control ball joints are shot. Rebuilding the banana plate and travel control linkage will probably happen with the frame on stands bottom side up.
646L rear axle water.jpg
Removing the rear axle from the donor frame did not bring any surprises. It was full of water as expected but appears to be very tight with low wear.
646L frame ready for transfer.jpg
With the 646L frame stripped it is ready to become a 646B
646B axle cover.jpg
Exposing the 646B transaxle top showed the typical grim build up and housing water entry point.
646B axle wear top.jpg
Ouch, Not good, extreme axle wear was not on the agenda, but not a surprise considering all of the other issues found.
646B axle wear bottom.jpg
Placing a jack under the axle housing let the axle drop about 3/8" The axles may have to be welded and turned for new bushings. Hopefully the housing is not damaged.
646B transfer build.jpg
The 646L was built a year before the 646B was introduced. Backhoe mounting brackets and weight bar hangers need to be added to the 646L frame. 4 holes will be drilled on the under side of the frame to mount the brackets.
At the end of the afternoon
646 build end of day May 25.jpg
Restoration is starting to look manageable both skill and time wise but cost is still unknown. The backhoe rear axle housing failure was unexpected.

Digging the hole a little deeper,

Spike

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Wed May 26, 2021 10:28 am
by Eugen
Oh wow, look at all those parts spread out on the driveway! Someone's having fun!

I never thought the axles could get that much wear. :O I supposed a lot of weight and usage will do that?! I'm even afraid to check mine now, as I don't have any other 6xx for parts.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Wed May 26, 2021 12:08 pm
by MattA
The newer tractors had a much beefier rear end. Not sure when Ingersoll started putting the loader/backhoe rear end in the 3000 and 4000 series. My 2001ish 4016 has it. I can't seem to figure out how to upload pictures to show you my tractors rear end :headbash:

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Wed May 26, 2021 12:17 pm
by Dave180
Amazing how much use these 600 series had over the years and little or no maintenance

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Wed May 26, 2021 12:26 pm
by Eugen
MattA wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 12:08 pm The newer tractors had a much beefier rear end. Not sure when Ingersoll started putting the loader/backhoe rear end in the 3000 and 4000 series. My 2001ish 4016 has it. I can't seem to figure out how to upload pictures to show you my tractors rear end :headbash:
Just click on attachments tab and then add files

Then wait for the pics to upload. They will appear below the submit button and you can also use the "in line"
CE040B2A-A8A1-45DA-8E4D-32B5A15CB32A.png
69E8DFE7-C9A0-4BED-8F1D-25E8EE422672.png

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Wed May 26, 2021 1:44 pm
by MattA
Thanks Eugen. I never saw the attachments link at the bottom of the page.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Thu May 27, 2021 8:32 am
by Spike188
B axle.jpg
The beefier rear end was introduced on the 6XXB's to handle the weight of the backhoe. Three cast webs are the visual difference with earlier units having no webs. Backhoes with the 12" flotation tire kit have a unique axle lengths to extend into the 12" wide rim. These axles are longer than standard 4XX and 6XX series tractors.
dif cover.jpg
Silicon and a bent differential cover plate signal that this was another PO hack. I fully expected the diff to be full of water. The tube of silicon did the trick of sealing.
No lube.jpg
It would have been nicer to find water in the case than finding no lubrication.
dif crack.jpg
Extreme wear in the axle bushings cause horizontal distortion in the differential halves,
broken dif.jpg
leading to a broken ring gear carrier. Tight tolerances in housing clearance make ring gear assembly hard to install. A break like this make removal a jigsaw puzzle.
pinion teeth.jpg
How long the tractor was driven without rear end lubrication?
Pinion teeth profile.jpg
Pinion teeth are razor sharp. The drive motor will have to be removed for gear replacement.
rh axle.jpg
The left hand axle still had a seal and intact bushing.
LH axle bushing.jpg
but the right hand axle seal was missing and the bushing was in 2 pieces.
Rh axle housing wear.jpg
The right hand housing stub is worn obround where it became the carrier for the axle after the bushing cut through. The end may not hold a new bushing with out welding and machining the stub. Axles from other tractors are usually grooved by wear on the bushing surface but these appear to have survived running in a lack of oil and bushing.
6XX rear end.jpg
What the next step in the rebuild will be depends a bit on the housing condition. Probably mounting the transmission to the frame and fitting the backhoe supports will happen in spite of latest problems.

How could this tractor have been driven in this condition? Remember that the engine was missing the charging armature, the hoe supports were bent and the frame pulled apart. What kept this unit from getting a warm bath at Stelco is a statement of the previous owners tenacity.

Spike

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Thu May 27, 2021 9:21 am
by Eugen
That's quite some damage there. Hopefully the case is in good enough shape to not need replacement. Fingers crossed!

Is the gear assembly the same as a 4xx? My logic says not.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Thu May 27, 2021 7:50 pm
by Timj
Wow Spike, as long as it moved, the PO must have just kept abusing it. :109:

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Thu May 27, 2021 9:29 pm
by Spike188
Day 3 is the first full day (11 hours) of the parts swap onto the new frame. The first 2 days were about 5 hours each.
wrench put to the test.jpg
Inspection of the flotation axle housing was good. There is a slight casting chip on a stub end and the damage from failed bushings proved to be limited.
poor little wrench.jpg
Flattening a the end of a 2 foot long 1" pipe seemed to be a bit of over kill for a 1/2" wrench but some have said the motor bolts need a lot of force to remove. They are correct but the little wrench took the abuse like a champ.
motor off and gear removed.jpg
With the motor removed from the transmission case, the gears slid off and the case became lighter to handle. After mounting the case to the new frame,
backhoe mount bolts stripped.jpg
the rear backhoe mounting support was installed. This is not the first time I have encountered accessory mounting holes in the casting rusted to the point of stripping. These holes will have to be repaired before painting and assembly.
mouting the lower backhoe arms.jpg
The next 4 hours was spent correcting and reforming the lower hoe support arms.
bent arms and holes off.jpg
The lower arm offsets had bend damage and holes were off by a 1/2 inch so the counter balance weights would not fit.
reforming arms.jpg
Multiple trips to the 20 ton shop press along with eyeballing the angles and parallelism eventually lined up the counter balance weight holes.
hanger move needed.jpg
The front frame hangers were off about 1/4" from where the optimum location need to be.
lower and upper arms.jpg
Cutting the ears off off of the lower arms and welding them in the prime spot solved that issue. Note the 2 short arms are the upper links and are beyond repair and will be replaced. The lower arms need attachment points fabricated for attaching the short arms to. The previous owner flame cut them off and blew out the mounting holes. Those holes will be weld filled and re-drilled.
hanger holes.jpg
After attaching the carrier to the frame the front carrier support brackets could be lined up then the frame drilled for final attachment.
shiming with paint.jpg
The rest of the day was spent sorting through spare parts to find the best spindles and steering gear. Paint is a novel way of shimming to take the slack out of front axle steering instead of replacing the bushing. :dizzy:
pictures of decals before paint.jpg
All decals have been photographed and removed before sending parts out for blasting. A source for Davis backhoe decals will be helpful.
ready for blasting and prime.jpg
The last project for the day was to knock the tires off of the rims. With that all that was left to do was
end of day 3.jpg
cleanup the work area. Tomorrow afternoon will be spent replacing the water pump in the Nissan forklift. The pump locked up and the forklift is my much needed other tractor.

Spike

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:01 am
by Spike188
Dropped the last parts off on Monday expecting a long wait for blasting and priming. Call came in late Wednesday afternoon that everything was ready for pickup.
blasted and primed 1.jpg
blasted and primed.jpg
Finding space for everything indoors was not on the agenda for today but it looked like rain was coming so we made room.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:51 pm
by Spike188
The snag of the week, a Kijiji barn find.
Goodyear terra  tire 26X12-12 8 ply.jpg
4 Goodyear Terra Tire 26X12-12 8 ply tires. I had to take all 4 and only need 2. These tires have never been mounted.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:56 pm
by Eugen
😮 what a great find! What will you mount them on?

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:00 pm
by Timj
Looks like you're set on the tire front for a little while. :thumbsup: nice find. :cheers:
:geek: Tim

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:13 pm
by Spike188
Eugen these are the exact replacement tire for the 600 series backhoe equipped with the flotation tire kit. I had been hunting :writing: for a Canadian supplier of 8 ply tires for a week. Only one place called back with a 6ply offshore and no specific delivery date for $360 each. Yesterday I did a kijiji search :letmesee: and these came up 15 minutes from me.

:spin: Spike

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:24 pm
by Eugen
They'd look awesome on a 2xx too, like the 226 I used to have.

Glad you found them!

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:16 pm
by Spike188
Ran into a snag while painting. The paint is PPG Omni left over from doing the 646L three years ago. There wasn't going to be enough base coat to do this job but why worry?
first paint rs.jpg
First paint 1rs.jpg
Because the Omni line of TMX has been discontinued in Canada. A replacement formulation has not been introduced at this point. It sounds like the hardener and reducer is still available so my supplier is doing a colour match that is suppose to be ready this week.

:headbash: Uhhgg. :((

Spike

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:01 pm
by Dave180
Looks good what you have done, hopefully you get paint to match what you have done

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:22 pm
by Eugen
They're really good these days at colour matching. It's unfortunate though that you ran out of the original. On the other hand just like most of us are technically deaf beyond 16kHz, we're pretty much colour blind too. I think you'll be fine at the end of the day. Let's see how it all works out. I know it will one way or another.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:34 pm
by Spike188
Does anyone have a lead on where to find the decal sets for the Davis D100 hoe? H102749, Lever control identification, 321-3054 Seat warning label, and 321-3196 D100 Decal.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:46 am
by Harry
I did purchase the decal a few years ago. I think I ordered it from Barneveld.

Keep the Peace
Harry

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:22 am
by Spike188
Slowly getting the hoe back together. All new hoses, new piping in boom, new o-rings and seals in valves and cylinders, a couple of new wrist pins.
hoses.jpg
Hope to power it up this afternoon.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:59 am
by Eugen
Well, I disagree with you Eugene! I am amazed how quickly you find the right parts, paint, hydraulic hoses, o-rings, sources for sand blasting and so on. What's slow to you is mighty fast for me at least! :smash: :smash: Well done, looking forward to seeing it alive! :spin:

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:24 pm
by Spike188
swing cylinder setup.jpg
Putting the swing cylinders and gear on was a tight fit. The swing cylinders had to be clamped in place and rotated to be parallel to the gear face. It was unexpected to find that the swing rack and pinion were in excellent condition
Pinning.jpg
Pinning booms in place revealed that the lower boom pivot pin was not the correct pin. The od was too small and pin length was an inch short. 2 pins will need to be made, it and the long one for the travel locking bar which is missing the extra length need to attach the bar.
hosing.jpg
With the boom and dipper in place the hose and cylinder layout could be began. The parts manual for the plumbing layout is vague. There are 4 drawings in 2 Davis-Case parts books that when compared made it possible to unravel.
hose times two.jpg
Two hoses have to fit through the down rigger posts.
hose tight fit.jpg
There is very little room to get a wrench in the tube. This is the first encounter where hose instillation sequence had to be planed.
boom top.jpg
The top boom hose connections and
boom piping.jpg
the lower boom connections were completed by prying the steel lines up with a large screwdriver and working across.
control tower.jpg
Attaching the hoses and tubing to the correct valves was a challenge. Once again working from right to left after test fitting all of the lines then removing them in a sequence that made tightening possible.
bleeding and testing.jpg
Using the 646 Loader as the hydraulic supply testing began. One down rigger need lines reversed, 2 of the 4 steel lines in the boom were crossed in the boom causing a hydraulic lock, and lastly the travel direction on the dipper arm was reversed. 15 gallon of fluid later the control issues were cleaned up but there was a mess of oil on the pad. Next project is digging the travel and loader control valves out of the old carcase for total rebuilds.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:38 pm
by Timj
Coming together nicely, Spike :thumbsup:
I think the tight spaces and fun hooking up the hydraulics is an inherited trait of all backhoes. :pullhair:
:geek: Tim

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:12 am
by Eugen
I can imagine some frustration when working in such confined spaces, oil all over the place. But the satisfaction when you'll be digging with this backhoe will be something else! :cheers: oh how much I would like a backhoe like that. One day..

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:15 am
by Spike188
Some have ask why posting has been on hold. The last week has been spent taking out carpet and intalling floating flooring and other home renovations.
side tracked.jpg
I can see now why the quote for doing the stair way was $100 per tread. Undercutting the pieced tiles has been a learning curve.

A box of tractor parts arrived this week so motivation for completting the floor is high.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:52 pm
by Eugen
I can only imagine how much work that is. Best of luck with the renovations. Your audience here is waiting patiently for the next instalment! :cheers: :creeper:

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:36 pm
by Spike188
Finally found some time to get back at the restoration. Spent the afternoon puting crank, cam, valves, and pistons in. All new bearings, valves and guides, pistons and high end rings. Hope to finish by the end of week.

Spike

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:34 pm
by Spike188
The engine assembly was going well until the new armature would not fit. It took a bit of time for the cause to become apparent.
broken timing cover.jpg

When removing the flywheel, it was found that the armature was missing. Now the reason is obvious. Two of the standoff lugs are missing and 1 of the mounting bolts is sheared off in the cover.

At least there is a spare cover here but it needs a lot of cleaning.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:33 am
by Spike188
I am looking for a timing gear cover. :violin: The cover that came with and engine of unknown origin has the same casting number but :headbash: The difference between the two is the Case cover has bearings top and bottom for the governor shaft to float in, the cover from my stock has a bushing on top and aluminium on steel at the bottom of the shaft with no provision for bearings. With the cost and time put into this rebuild cutting corners by installing a cover with a loose fitting governor shaft is out of the question.

I will add pictures of the differences later.

Spike

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:21 am
by Eugen
Oh no! Bummer! :cuss:

It'd be nice if you could put a bronze bushing on the aluminum side. :geek:

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:52 pm
by ssmewing
Boomersonanparts.com

New and used and specializes in Case and Ingersoll. He is old school. You call him and pay with a check or money order or Paypal if you pay the 3% fee. If it is going to Canada, you probably should arrange that yourself. But, I am not sure.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:59 pm
by ssmewing
Your stator got wiped out by either the flywheel magnets coming off or the flywheel itself. There have been many flywheels cracked from over-torquing the bolt.

I have also seen where an owner hacked a hole in the shroud to change a starter. The debris from the hack job was picked up by the magnets which both shorted the stator and took out the stator. The hacked hole will always haunt the engine in a loss of cooling air that escapes from the hole in the shroud.

Short cuts are often a fool's folly.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:12 am
by Spike188
Thanks for all of the feedback. A member here came through with the timing gear cover and bonus engine tin for the CCKA.

It is awsome having a fellow enthusiast close by.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:22 pm
by Eugen
Hello :wave2: @Spike188 , I know you are busy, but when you do get a little time, could you please :please: post your findings of the yellow paint you used for the backhoe?
thank you! :spin:

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:52 pm
by Spike188
This is the system that CarQuest, a local supplier to repair shops made for me. Unfortunately the can does not show the formula. I am impressed with the finish but the supplies were anything but cheap. I took a part to them that still had a sheen to it and they matched the color.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:04 pm
by Eugen
Thank you @Spike188!

646-75lbh Restoration -Spike!

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:15 pm
by Seabee
Spike my cousin has a 6018 loader tractor that the steering went nutso yesterday. I wonder if he could call you or some one else on this board about your restoration (experience with the banana plate and mechanism).

If you send PM phone number I will get it to him.

Thanks!

Bill Moyer

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:42 pm
by Spike188
Update on the 646bh. This project got put on hold due to workload and health. If a plan comes together, the engine, transaxle, and hydraulic pump will get attention this winter. Wish me luck. Covid has been breathing down my neck for the past 2 weeks. Now the wife is kicking my butt every time I mention doing a service call. Sometimes a guy just can't win.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:38 pm
by Spike188
Guy's I have been running on reduced energy for 2 years and this project got put on the back burner. With @thebuildist and @Eugen both working on D100's it seems appropriate to add to this thread. The D100 rebuild started before this site was began. It may take me a while to migrate the complete rebuild over.

For now I will pick up the rebuild as it stood on July 20, 2020

This is my second 646 restore. There was a big learning curve on the first one. Based on the end results of the first loader there are things that will be approached differently.
#1 Assess the parts needed and prioritize which should be sourced first.
#2 Do not put off getting each step completed.
#3 Commit to replacing end of life parts before proceeding to the next step.
#4 Have a plan.

Thise time around the engine will get more attention.

The kicker here is that the exhaust is missing and not available new. I would like to find a 646 exhaust manifold and figure out what kind of muffler will be used.
image.png
The engine that came with the tractor is a CCKA MS/280J 0475 93480S.

A cold compression test showed zero on the LH side and 95 on the RH side. Being able to feel air movement at both the exhaust port and sparkplug hole indicated a stuck valve. After removing the carburetor manifold and valve inspection covers a stuck intake valve was confirmed. The left hand head was removed.
Using a light hammer and some very hard hits the intake valve was freed up. While the head was off a visual inspection of cylinder and piston fit bottom dead center egg shaping of about 0.015" was visible. The upper ring could be seen clearly at the top of the piston. At top dead center the egg shaping disappeared, hiding the upper ring, leading me to think that the cylinder boar is the issue. With the head reattached a compression test with the possibly bent valve was LH 95/ Rh 85.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:44 pm
by Spike188
July 24, 2020
The 646 came with an extra Honda engine. I was not keen on installing the Honda because of wanting to keep the rebuild as original as possible. Getting your feedback help confirm that the CCKA replacement is the proper way to go. I have watched enough exhaust videos that build a muffler will be easy.
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Exploratory surgery was preformed on the CCKA-sm j earlier in the week. Wiping down the cylinder walls and looking at the piston clearance made me cringe. The compression ring can be seen when the pistons are at bottom dead center.
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One tool missing in my arsenal was a short inside micrometer set. A quick look on Kijij and I found a Starrett inside mic set and picked it up last night. The inside mic along with the outside set already in the toybox confirmed my suspicion.
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The pistons are shot, upper ring groove has .015 slap, the piston wear below the oil rings was measurable and above the compression ring off the charts. Boring the cylinder 0.010" would clean the bottom dead center ridge up.

I did find a couple of surprises. I woke up in the middle of the night and realized that the armature was missing. I overlooked that when pulling the flywheel. Why would someone intentionaly attempt to run a tractor without a charging system? Another surprise but understandable was the nice aluminium weld job where a mounting foot had broken off of the oil pan.

I have seen the short blocks advertised but am considering doing the rebuild myself. ​
My guess is the Honda will go a long way toward putting a CCKA back into the tractor.

Digging in,
Eugene

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:48 pm
by Spike188
July 27, 2020

I love it when a plan starts coming together. Lionel came through with a new muffler, and several sources for engine rebuilds are helping out.

Now for the sad story. The tractor was pressure washed Saturday. Once the deep layer of dirt and oil were removed the abuse this tool received was apparent. A previous owner used the loader bucket to "plant" the tractor when over working the backhoe. The frame was nearly torn in half before being patch welded back together, hidden inside the tower and frame.
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The cross member is bent and ripped loose on both sides of the frame.
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The under carriage bracket bolts are sheared on one side. This explains why the under carriage arms have the pin locator holes crudely torched out.

The cross member could be cut out cleanly and duplicated and pulling the tower back to its proper location could be accomplished. Metal fatigue can not be overcome without glove plating. Replacing the complete frame would facilitate
finding the original under carriage hole centers easier.

If an 75 or later 646 Loader frame can be found, replacing the frame makes sense. A loader frame will not have been stressed and weakened like this frame is.

So this is a distress call. Does anyone know of a 646 loader frame for sale? ( I did some horse trading with @SylvesterCalzone aka Mike for a 74 646 frame)

Eugene

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:51 pm
by Spike188
July 27, 2020
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This is the one Mike sold me. I gave him a Cub Cadet in partial trade.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:55 pm
by Spike188
Mission accomplished! A nearby CCI member had a basket case 646
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and I had a bait tractor. He wanted a Cub Cadet 125
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that I had purchased from a neighbor a few years ago, so a trade was made.

I thinks we are both happy.
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The donor tractor is missing the travel control valve, loader valve, bucket, engine, and serial number plate. It is one of the tightest, low wear tractors of this era that I have seen.

Next step is back to work on making an engine.

Digging in,

Eugene

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:07 pm
by Spike188
Sep 20, 2022

The engine has been dropped of at a machine shop for boring and a wish list sent to Boomer. In the meantime the hoe will get some attention. After reading Harry's post of issues with his bucket not curling, it was the motivation and encouragement needed to give the hoe a proper rebuild.
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The 646L hydraulic system was used to stretch out the hoe for pressure washing and joint pin removal. The center pin was seized and took a lot of persuasion to remove. At one point consideration was given to drilling and tapping the pin for using a hollow core cylinder to pull the pin out.

2 items added by a PO were found after removing the center pin. A 2X4 block was wedged under the 4 hard lines and a clamp made of steel had been used to support??? the lines. The clamp bolts were bent over and nuts damaged beyond turning. Because the bolts were tapped into the frame they turned out of it easily. Time has not been taken to see if there is a proper pipe clamp that is missing from the joint area.
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The 2 long cylinders came apart much easier than expected. The Davis manual says the the gland nut is torqued to 200 ft/lb's. The end caps were not much more than hand tight and the gland nuts broke loose with a cheater.
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There was quite a bit of filth inside the cylinders, probably 45 years worth. The 646L was used for testing the hoe so it will definitely need an oil and filter change before doing any work.
20200923_130519.jpg
The gland guide on on barrel has a lot of gall marks. The barrel is also scored. The barrel will hone but no decision has been made on whether to reuse or make a new rod end.
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The crushed hard lines were taken to a local hydraulic shop and duplicated with a 24 hour turnaround. The price was roughly 3 times the price of a same length hose.
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Still digging in,

Eugene

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:26 pm
by Spike188
Oct 7, 2022

2 out of 3 cylinders cleaned up very nicely.
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This one has deep scoring so it will be paired with a slightly pitted ram. Since this cylinder will be a candidate for replacement it will be used as the bucket cylinder so that change out labour will be minimal. The good cylinder twin will be used in the boom position.
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The first 2 cylinders came apart with very little effort but...
dipper cylinder brighten.jpg
Over 3 hours was spent removing the ram and cap from the dipper cylinder. After removing the snap ring, the end cap would only move just past the snap ring grove. Remembering the problems that Lionel ran into with one of his rams a different approach was taken. The cylinder bottom was pinned to heavy wall tubing which the forklift was parked on top of and the ram end was tied to the forklift mast. After 2 attempts of lifting the mast forks and bending the 2" X 1/4 wall tubing it was time to rethink what was binding. On close inspection the snap ring grove was hammered and mushroomed. Using a Dremel and grinding burr the mushroom area was removed. The ram pulled out by hand with with 3 good pulls.

Keep digging

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:36 pm
by Spike188
@Eugen These are the types of cylinder and glands used on my D100.
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Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:45 pm
by Spike188
Oct 12, 2020

After replacing glands and o-rings, the end caps needed persuasion when clearing the bore end. A welding clamp did just the job.
cylinder end install.jpg
With 3 cylinders completed, it was tempting to carry on without opening the swing cylinder or outriggers.
3 cylinders completed.jpg
The Swing cylinder removed very easily because it was all that was left connected to the valve bodies. This was where the biggest surprise came. The double ended ram is also a reservoir, hollow through to a valve on the other end.
swind ram.jpg
That end is solid and has a cushioning valve in it.

The hollow end was full of sludge
swing cylinder lh sludge.jpg
and the valve end full of debris.
swing cylinder rh debri.jpg
Debris in the valve could have became and issue and maybe where system crud migrates to.

The debris appeared to be hose lining and maybe some o-ring or gland.

Eugene

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:48 pm
by Spike188
Nov 7, 2020

Today's project, $90.00 worth of o-rings. 4 between each valve, 2 on each spool and 6 on relief valves.
backhoe valve rebuild.jpg
There is a stop missing on one of the spools but it can be replace with the unit assembled. The spools do show a bit of wear in the od but no scoring. This job was made a simple by taking a valve body to a local supplier so that he could measure the recesses and cutouts for the proper size. Of 46 o-rings in 6 sizes, all but one size was in his stock, and his order was here overnight.

Sorry, I forgot to take pictures.

Eugene

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:16 am
by Eugen
This is great help @Spike188 ! :worship: Very timely too! Thank you! Look, your tips allowed me to get the first rod out!

4F8FEFD4-2DF4-4345-97DF-74D8FF305274.jpeg

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:44 am
by Eugen
Spike188 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:48 pm Nov 7, 2020

Today's project, $90.00 worth of o-rings. 4 between each valve, 2 on each spool and 6 on relief valves.
backhoe valve rebuild.jpgThere is a stop missing on one of the spools but it can be replace with the unit assembled. The spools do show a bit of wear in the od but no scoring. This job was made a simple by taking a valve body to a local supplier so that he could measure the recesses and cutouts for the proper size. Of 46 o-rings in 6 sizes, all but one size was in his stock, and his order was here overnight.

Sorry, I forgot to take pictures.

Eugene
But did you keep track of the sizes?

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:46 am
by Toolslinger
I just checked... Apparently I didn't keep track of the sizes when I had my 1.5 year long battle with the stack valve on my machine... I really thought I did... Perhaps on another computer, or in a file I've lost track of... I do love the computers, but there's something to be said for a clipboard with all the details of each machine's history in one place like all the machines at the farm have had my whole life... I've got the details, and prices of parts back to the 70's on those machines.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:16 am
by DavidBarkey
@Spike188 Wow Eugene thats coming along . Hope you get your strength and stamina back . Covid long haulers is not nice.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:33 am
by Spike188
All repair parts were sourced locally. The supplier measured the glands and cylinders to match up o-rings, backer rings, wear rings, and seals. All of the paperwork had his own part numbers on them making cross referencing to size difficult.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:26 pm
by Eugen
@Spike188 any words of advice on getting the swing cylinder(s) off the frame? :hitsfan:

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:03 pm
by Spike188
swing cylinder setup.jpg
Here are pictures of the swing assembly. To remover the swing cylinders, remove the swing arm 16 tooth pinon gear. It is held in place by 2 socket head set screws. Once it is off there are 4 clamps / 8 bolts that hold the swing cylinder in place.

Re: 646-75lbh Restoration

Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:11 pm
by Eugen
Eugene! :worship: :worship: :worship: