Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

So guys, I bought a 1979 446 with Onan B43M from a neighbor last year. I runs ok, but not well, and has a major oil leak, dropping oil onto the deck when running so in less than 1/2 hour the level drops from full to empty, or close. Not had time to strip it down yet and will not till spring. The neighbor had it serviced every year since new too. What/where should I concentrate my efforts?

ras101 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 2:55 pm So guys, I bought a 1979 446 with Onan B43M from a neighbor last year. I runs ok, but not well, and has a major oil leak, dropping oil onto the deck when running so in less than 1/2 hour the level drops from full to empty, or close. Not had time to strip it down yet and will not till spring. The neighbor had it serviced every year since new too. What/where should I concentrate my efforts?

If you fill to the full line . Does it leak when not running , ie. just sitting ?

Yes, it seems to but more when running. I am thinking it could be the oil pan gasket but it's too cold to check right now.

ras101 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 3:40 pm Yes, it seems to but more when running. I am thinking it could be the oil pan gasket but it's too cold to check right now.

Pan gasket is above the full line a little bit . The dip stick tube seal, oil drain tube , additional oil drain plug (some have for other spot) , Cracked/ broken foot , are all possibilities . It would not hurt just to get a rebuild gasket set and change all gaskets and seal as most will be around 50 years old anyways . That is what I did with the genny enginein the 446 even though it was low hours .

Dave, I think you could be right on here. My neighbor is not short of money (he is a Doctor) and had the GT serviced every year since new by a professional shop. It will start (reluctantly) and run, and sounds great, it's just the oil problem. It came with a deck that he used year round and cut great, but nothing My neighbor tells me he gave away a snowblower (never used) a few years ago that he bought with it as a package.

Targeting the oil leak is not the route needed. You most likely have gaskets that are all rock-hard from age and heat. The heat that destroys the gaskets comes from running lean. The carb needs cleaning, the 2 piece manifold is probably leaking.

I have my tips and videos on my pages on Facebook and YouTube as Hemlock Case Guy. I have had great feedback on them.

Onan does not sell a gasket kit. Aftermarket junk from China is often sold as a kit. They are not worth the box they ship in.

Boomer sells new gaskets and is good at getting you the correct gaskets. Onan parts are only sold through authorized dealers and they are all sold at the same prices unless it is eBay. EBay sellers have to pay about 15% to sell on eBay. That usually gets rolled into the price.

Boomer's number is 651-437-2826. He can email you the service manual for torque specs and instructions. John Deere wrote an extended version of the service manual called Onan CTM2 service manual, google search for that. It has way more pictures and more precise instructions.

Overall you should correctly clean your carb and use a service kit from Onan. You should search for my help in testing the intake manifold and testing your valves. Both are most likely just a formality and they both should fail the leak tests. You will need to get the carbon off the face of the intake valve. Then you lap the valves to read the lap and see that it passes the test for contact. You also going to be looking right at the camshaft when you do the cover gasket and the shaft seal. The cam bearings have about half the life of the main bearings. You can look at them and see the uneven colors and such. It adds a lot of complexity and stuff like having or buying or making drivers for crank seals, cam bearings, and valve tool to remove the valves. Then the really going for it is taking out the crankshaft and such and having the bore honed at a machine shop. Their hones maintain a perfect circle. If you end up at 0.005 or under for the bore you can use the Hastings rings which have way better oil control from the start compared to the Onan parts.

I do this to all my Onan engines. I do not add oil to any of them. Once the oil gets to the add mark, I am well past the 50 hours. So, I use that as a time to change the oil metric. I run one season with regular oil and synthetic after that.

But, there is a good part. If you do all this correctly, you will never have to do it again.

So, I guess guys you have convinced me to just strip it down and a do a full rebuild. I know that I should have just done that anyway but I guess I was hoping for the "quick fix" . So come spring I will take the engine out and strip it down.. In the mean time it just sits in my yard covered till spring.

I managed to get to the engine this weekend and found the oil leakage problem almost immediately - the oil drain! This GT had been serviced by the same 'professional" shop and I guess over the years they had managed to loosen the pipe into the block. when I went to tighten I found the right angle fitting was hitting the hydraulic pipe to the oil cooler. other than draining the hydraulics and removing the pipe are there any other solutions?

ras101 wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 9:47 am I managed to get to the engine this weekend and found the oil leakage problem almost immediately - the oil drain! This GT had been serviced by the same 'professional" shop and I guess over the years they had managed to loosen the pipe into the block. when I went to tighten I found the right angle fitting was hitting the hydraulic pipe to the oil cooler. other than draining the hydraulics and removing the pipe are there any other solutions?

Hard to picture what's going on. Can you show a photo of that area

I looked at my 448 It's pretty close, I don't know if you can pry the line up enough to get the elbow off or not. Mine moved some with my fingers but...
Tim

Attached is a picture of the drain which comprises a piece of 3/4 inch threaded iron tube, a 3/4 threaded right angle fitting and a 3/4 plug. All seem to be standard plumbing/gas fittings with tapered threads.

Thanks Tim, I tried that first and it moves a little but no where near allowing the drain to turn. Thinking I might just cut the straight part of the pipe and remove the part still attached with a pipe wrench (possibly, as it is loose might even be able to remove with my fingers). If I did that I would size the length of the new pipe to miss the hydraulic line. I would also change from black iron pipe to brass.

that's tight, but yes it's standard pipe thread.

Thanks Tim. I have a plumbing pipe threader in my tool kit so I could/can make a custom length pipe to make install/removal easy.

Does it look this?

Eugen, yes that looks very similar.

Ray, this one here disassembles into three parts, as seen on this pic.



If you took it apart and the elbow, part no 3, cannot turn because of something blocking rotation, why not cut the elbow from below and replace it with a straight NPT fitting. This elbow I show here was less than $2, 1/4" NPT thread.


Cut carefully here or here

Eugen. The problem is that the tube screws into the sump of the engine - it needs to be tight to seal the thread
which is a pipe thread and tapered. The 90 degree e!how then screws into the tube, again tapered thread. The elbow does not have enough room to turn because the solid tube hydraulic tube just above. There is no way the tube can flex because of the engine tins. I could drain the hydraulics and remove the hydraulic pipe out of the way but I really want a permanent fix so the drain could be removed in the future. I think my solution will be to cut the drain pipe thus removing the elbow and remove the final part of the drain tube from the engine. I will then fit a longer drain tube and elbow to move the elbow away from the hydraulics. I will also add some sealant to the threads to stop the elbow moving when removing the drain plug for caring the oil.

Just wondering if anyone has ever tried a "Quick Drain" valve like this -

(edit - make sure you check and get the right size - I just posted the first NPT one I found...)
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0B9CDQ873/ref ... N955ILKN5F

Swapping it for the elbow and tube might give some extra clearance, I put something similar on my Toyota Tacoma after I got it, made engine oil changes much easier, It's nice to be able to put a hose on the the drain valve when you are ready and have everything go straight into the drain pan instead of all over the place...

Think I talked myself into doing this on my 446's next oil change

ras101 wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 4:50 pm Eugen. The problem is that the tube screws into the sump of the engine - it needs to be tight to seal the thread
which is a pipe thread and tapered. The 90 degree e!how then screws into the tube, again tapered thread. The elbow does not have enough room to turn because the solid tube hydraulic tube just above. There is no way the tube can flex because of the engine tins. I could drain the hydraulics and remove the hydraulic pipe out of the way but I really want a permanent fix so the drain could be removed in the future. I think my solution will be to cut the drain pipe thus removing the elbow and remove the final part of the drain tube from the engine. I will then fit a longer drain tube and elbow to move the elbow away from the hydraulics. I will also add some sealant to the threads to stop the elbow moving when removing the drain plug for caring the oil.

Sounds like you found a way to fix it


@RoamingGnome I've often wondered if I should get a valve like that.

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 6:07 pm
@RoamingGnome I've often wondered if I should get a valve like that.

@Eugen - With skid plates and other stuff under the Tacoma it made oil changes a breeze
Bigger versions of drain valves are really common on heavy equipment - It makes PM services go a lot quicker
FWIW - just wanted to add that there are a couple of different formulations of "Thread Sealant" some with a very effective locking formulation - handy if someone previously over torqued a NPT fitting and you want to be able to set an elbow pointing in the right direction

Thank you #RoamingGnome - I have just ordered a tube from Amazon.

@ras101 - I hope it does the trick for you... I think I used something similar at work - Industrial suppliers package things a little differently. Just make sure you use lots of brake clean, the threads are bone dry and that you give it enough time to set up before using it...

@RoamingGnome thank you for this tip, I will add it to my "must get" list.
Relu

So my thread locker/seal arrived today. Everything I have read says go-for-it and I really intend to try that. I have though decided to change the Hydraulic oil too so will be stripping the oil tube that is causing interference problems too. So my next post will include hydraulic oil draining, changing to a holding valve (1979 GT I bought from a neighbor) as well as engine oil change, etc. In some ways that makes the change easier as I will remove the hard line from the pump to oil cooler so no cutting of the drain. M fix will include brass fittings for the drain. I am really impressed with the brass parts - the 90 degree angle is square and the whole deal looks so much better when installed. I will be sealing the joints with thread sealer and thread locker too. Only talking here do I get the full story on my needs.. Thanks guiys.

Sounds like the right plan, get everything hydraulic done in one drain down of the system.
Tim

So that decided, I will drain the hydraulic system too, what else should i do at this time? New oil will be (for ONAN b43M engine) and then 5/50 (probably mobile one) synthetic for the deck/blower. I only want to change my oil a couple of times every 5years or so..

Ray, show us some pictures of what you're doing please. Helps everyone when time comes to do it.

I don't quite understand the idea of changing the engine oil so rarely

Eugen, changing engine oil is one thing. Based on that oil is subjected to contaminates from engine use that finds its way into the oil stream over time. The fact that most people tend to the lower quality conventional oils too does not help and a change to synthetics would help here too. Not so with hydraulic oils, there are no contaminates! the ONLY reason to change is by season. If you really examine the Case/Ingersoll doctrine on this the only reason to change out oil is due to season, i.e. temperature. Case recommends 20/40 for summer and 5/20 for winter for a reason... They want to make sure that during winter temperatures that the GT starts easily, hence the 5 rating during the winter, and provides enough power during what they deem the summer season when most power is needed. All these assumptions are false! Case/Ingersoll tractors are used all over the US and some even in Europe. Temperatures very through all seasons too. Conventional oils at a reason price and availability were the norm and synthetics even though available were expensive and not universally available. Rather than stake the companies reputation on the new thing on the block they went with the current norm (how could blame them!). Unlike conventional oils that need additives to move to multi grade synthetics are actually designed to be multi grade...big difference. All this info is available online for anyone that wants to know.. So now to answer you question: Knowing that the reason to change oil is based on oil becoming contaminated due to engine by products, and the need to change oil between summer and winter usage due to viscosity we are left with only one thing - an oil that has a viscosity that could/can span the range for summer/winter use. As Case/Ingersoll recommends 5/20 for winter use and 20/40 for summer use in our Hydraulic systems using an oil that spans that - lets say 5/50 meets all our needs. Next lets look at contaminants and there are NONE - hence my oil change period which might be too short...

The 5w20 recommendation for winter use is a mystery to me.