Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

myerslawnandgarden wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:33 pm

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:26 pm Finished assembly but the engine isn't starting. Cranks but it seems too slow. It almost seems like the engine is slightly seized. Turns but hard. kinda bummed right now.

Eugen,

Did it turn hard before fastening to the pump adapter? The spacing of the pump coupling may not be correct if you did not check that. There are two holes on the bottom side that allow access to the coupling set screws so that you can tighten them after everything is bolted into place. Maybe to start with, just loosen the 4 mounting bolts on the rear of the engine block and see if the engine turns easier then.

Just had a guy turn his pump into toast and contaminate the entire hydraulic system by because he installed a different engine and had the pump coupling misadjusted. He would have been money and time ahead if his engine did not start like yours.

Bob

That is crazy that people think the 2 holes on the Kohler adapter go on the bottom. They are not drain holes and if they are on the bottom then they're useless for their actual purpose. The holes go on the top. I have to fix that often. Once the holes are on the top you can adjust the coupler just fine and see the actual set screw. I find that if you actually buy a new rubber spacer that is surprisingly soft and springy that the loose half of the coupler will self-adjust just to where the spacer is relaxed. It can then be tightened with a 3/8" drive hex bit. Those bent pieces of steel that are called allen wrenches are not good enough for set screws which are harder than grade 8.

I used the carb that came with the tractor, indeed a new cheap carb. I don't have the original.

ssmewing wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:36 pm

myerslawnandgarden wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:33 pm

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:26 pm Finished assembly but the engine isn't starting. Cranks but it seems too slow. It almost seems like the engine is slightly seized. Turns but hard. kinda bummed right now.

Eugen,

Did it turn hard before fastening to the pump adapter? The spacing of the pump coupling may not be correct if you did not check that. There are two holes on the bottom side that allow access to the coupling set screws so that you can tighten them after everything is bolted into place. Maybe to start with, just loosen the 4 mounting bolts on the rear of the engine block and see if the engine turns easier then.

Just had a guy turn his pump into toast and contaminate the entire hydraulic system by because he installed a different engine and had the pump coupling misadjusted. He would have been money and time ahead if his engine did not start like yours.

Bob

That is crazy that people think the 2 holes on the Kohler adapter go on the bottom. They are not drain holes and if they are on the bottom then they're useless for their actual purpose. The holes go on the top. I have to fix that often. Once the holes are on the top you can adjust the coupler just fine and see the actual set screw. I find that if you actually buy a new rubber spacer that is surprisingly soft and springy that the loose half of the coupler will self-adjust just to where the spacer is relaxed. It can then be tightened with a 3/8" drive hex bit. Those bent pieces of steel that are called allen wrenches are not good enough for set screws which are harder than grade 8.

I cannot find the correct procedure for adjusting the engine to pump coupling.

Eugen wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:45 pm I used the carb that came with the tractor, indeed a new cheap carb. I don't have the original.

I would replace that wrong cheap carb with a better one. There are carbs that come with two choke lever shafts. Some of the cheap carbs are better than other cheap carbs. The ones you buy from legitimate parts businesses are better than the ones sold on just random websites. It should run $40-60 and they are actually decent carbs.

After discussing this with Dave, and reading the original Lovejoy installation instructions, I think I got it figured out. Indeed, as @ssmewing says, an original spider may have the right spacing (also due to the piston like bumps on its to contact surfaces). The original installation instructions also specify the alignment tolerances, which I am thinking are a non issue if the pump housing is not bent, as the housing is what should supply the necessary on-axis alignment. So all there's left is the clearance, which I will change again.


Regarding the carb Steve, I would indeed prefer an original carb. Looking through my other parts I did find an original carb that came with another k321 I had, seized choke butterfly and all. I'll see if the gaskets from the chinesium carb fit, and attempt a thorough cleaning. Or perhaps just switch the choke lever from the old to the new, don't know. I do prefer the look of the old one, weathered and true with wrinkles just like me.

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:08 pm After discussing this with Dave, and reading the original Lovejoy installation instructions, I think I got it figured out. Indeed, as @ssmewing says, an original spider may have the right spacing (also due to the piston like bumps on its to contact surfaces). The original installation instructions also specify the alignment tolerances, which I am thinking are a non issue if the pump housing is not bent, as the housing is what should supply the necessary on-axis alignment. So all there's left is the clearance, which I will change again.


Regarding the carb Steve, I would indeed prefer an original carb. Looking through my other parts I did find an original carb that came with another k321 I had, seized choke butterfly and all. I'll see if the gaskets from the chinesium carb fit, and attempt a thorough cleaning. Or perhaps just switch the choke lever from the old to the new, don't know. I do prefer the look of the old one, weathered and true with wrinkles just like me.

You have an issue that must be addressed. Your throttle linkage to the governor's arm should be parallel with the frame or ground. You have an angle that I have never seen before. I do know that you cannot have it that way. It is not going to ever work right like that. So, changing the choke shaft will not fix the issue of the throttle linkage to the carb being way wrong. I think you got an almost correct carb or something. Like I said I have never seen one that way before. But, the geometry of the linkage will prevent the engine from running correctly.

I would just take that carb off and do what I said to do before. Buy a carb from a dedicated parts seller that comes with both choke shafts and get the correct carb that is less garbage than what you have. Also, that old carb may very well be no good due to throttle shaft wear, very common. That would mean that you would have to clean it and repair the throttle shaft with a new shaft and a new bushing after drilling the hole oversized in a drill press.

You are starting to frustrate me. I tell you that you have a problem and you do not seem to read that part. Please re-read what I wrote and know that you do not have an option to use the current carb. It would be extremely odd, but your governor arm could be too short and that would be extremely unlikely.

Look, I do appreciate your advice but simply didn't clue in to the problem you pointed out. I just missed that detail, sorry.

I'll go back and reread everything you said more carefully.

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:06 pm Look, I do appreciate your advice but simply didn't clue in to the problem you pointed out. I just missed that detail, sorry.

I'll go back and reread everything you said more carefully.

I cannot be the only that sees that the linkage from the carb to the governor linkage is way off. The issue appears to be that the carb throttle shaft is way too long.

Just Google pics of K321 or K-Series engines and then look at that area.

I really think you need to purchase a carb from a parts house as I said. One that already comes with 2 different choke shafts. It should cost $40-60 US which means it is not from the group of completely crap carbs and into the ones that are decent. What I like to see is a site that offers the OEM carb and then the knock-off both. Those vendors are aware of the knock-offs but also will only sell parts that work. Your challenge is your CA issue that is why I am not suggesting a vendor.

I spend a great deal of time selecting parts. For the most part, Onan and Kohler should be OEM on all gaskets and starters. Vanguard 100% OEM.

Now that you pointed it out I can clearly see that the linkage isn't parallel to the x-axis of the tractor, far from it. Looking for the right carb for this tractor now. Will post progress.


Here, for comparison.

First, the way it should be




And now, my carb. :/




I found these guys online, they claim this is made in the USA, as a copy of the original k321 carb. And they don't ship to Canada

http://shop.kustomlawnandgarden.com/KOH ... arb30c.htm

I went to the back of the tent today set on pulling out the carb with the weird angle on the governor link. Hm.. this is what I found :




Maybe it was skewed when I first assembled it, I don't know, but it sure looks fine now


Very strange!