Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:58 pm**

Hi all,
I'll use this thread to document my rebuild of a K321 that came out of my 224.

The story of this tractor
This guy somewhere near Niagara had this 224 on for sale or trade. He said he got the tractor from an older gentleman who just didn't finish the restoration. The paint job was somewhat rough on it, but there seemed to be quite a few new parts on the tractor. He claimed, like many others, that the tractor runs but just needed the carb adjusted - which was new too. Well, when I got it home and played with it...

http://www.vimeo.com/406420726

If that's not convincing, how about this.

http://www.vimeo.com/406707922

Couldn't do anything about it for a while, just too many other priorities, replace the roof on the house and shed, garden, plus the other tractors. Still, took the head off and there were all kind of tell tell signs. The piston said 030 hm... so this block is probably done. The head gasket looked like new but was broken; that means probably the head is warped.

Found some time to pull the engine out about 2 months ago, and went at it, little bit at a time, as I barely can scrape a few minutes for such things. So it's going to be a long story here.

Managed to disassemble the engine, was having trouble making a good measurement of the cylinder with the cheap telescoping gauges I got from amazon.

Started looking for something better and managed to score a nice Mitutoyo dial bore gauge from ebay at a really good price. Wow, what a difference in being able to accurately meausure the cylinder, repeatedly! The cylinder measured pretty much everywhere 3.533 which is right on the edge of worn out for 030 over. Some folks offer 040 over kits, but the internet says it's too much over boring for the Kohler K321, you end up with an overheating engine. Not being sure what to do, I was keeping an eye on ebay for a block, and voila, one showed up. Not only that, but it was from a Case 224, and it was STD. Pulled the trigger on it, as the price was not indecent, and shipping price was really good, which is these days a killer if it comes from the US.

This one measures the worst at 3.502 inches. The wear limit is 0.003. I could use it as is, and get a few years out of it, but since it's all ready for boring, I decided it will go to our own member Sylvester Calzone of http://enginebore.com and have it bored 010 over. He will supply the rest of the rebuild kit as well.

What about the crankshaft? The old crankshaft measured closed to 0.02 under already

What to do? Went back to the ebay seller that sold me the block, wondering if he has the crankshaft belonging to the block, and he did. That one measured at 1.499

Why am I complicating myself this way? Because it's the first time I rebuild an engine, and intend to keep this engine for as long as I live.

Updates will follow, hopefully soon.

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:05 pm**

Great start Eugen - looking forward to following this thread!

Chad

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

Posted: **Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:12 pm**

Getting a scrub before going to get bored. Was full of grime.

Engine degreaser and hot water

Posted: **Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:31 pm**

The Kohler K-series is a great engine to learn on. It is simple and there are quality aftermarket parts, but there are also crap parts. That is probably the toughest part. But, it seems you have that sorted out already.

You should consider a governor and governor shaft bushing. They do not fail that often. But, you have to totally take the engine apart to change one and you are nearly there now.

Boring is a must in my opinion. I do not know where you measured but, the cylinder does not wear evenly. Flatheads Kohlers develop piston slap. That is where the piston is forced to rock in the bore because of it being a flathead and where the spark plug is located. This results in the piston skirt wearing 90 degrees from the piston pin and the same for the cylinder. The bottom wear of the bore is probably very different in the 90 degrees from the piston pin.

There was a recent Facebook post where a guy had a Kohler with low hours on an overhaul and the piston wore the top edges opposite of the piston pins. That can only happen in a bore that is oval shaped.

Posted: **Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:19 am**

Appreciate your advice Steve!

ssmewing wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:31 pm The Kohler K-series is a great engine to learn on. It is simple and there are quality aftermarket parts, but there are also crap parts. That is probably the toughest part. But, it seems you have that sorted out already.

I'd have gotten the parts from bakt4kids from ebay, but I do want to support our local Kohler parts guy, and he assures me the parts are quality.

You should consider a governor and governor shaft bushing. They do not fail that often. But, you have to totally take the engine apart to change one and you are nearly there now.

Good idea. Hard to find a source for the bushing Kohler part 235476S, but looking.

Boring is a must in my opinion. I do not know where you measured but, the cylinder does not wear evenly. Flatheads Kohlers develop piston slap. That is where the piston is forced to rock in the bore because of it being a flathead and where the spark plug is located. This results in the piston skirt wearing 90 degrees from the piston pin and the same for the cylinder. The bottom wear of the bore is probably very different in the 90 degrees from the piston pin.

There was a recent Facebook post where a guy had a Kohler with low hours on an overhaul and the piston wore the top edges opposite of the piston pins. That can only happen in a bore that is oval shaped.

Yes, boring will be done. The measurements on this block were

	X	Y
Upper	3.5021	3.5018
Middle	3.5015	3.5003
Lower	3.5018	3.5003

Posted: **Sat May 15, 2021 12:39 am**

Got the block from Mike today. He says the valve guides are within spec so no need to replace them. Phew!

There was no need for boring, he did a rigid honing married to the 010 piston that came with the kit.

For the fun of it I measured the valve guides and indeed both are somewhere between 0.312 and 0.313 inches.

That's the best I could measure with an old Oldak small whole gauge.

For the cylinder I set the micrometer to 3.510" again, I don't have gauge blocks

so I go by the 3 and 4 Mitutoyo standards I got, and hope that 3.5" is also accurate.

Set the dial bore gauge to zero against the micrometer and on with the measurement.

Which looks like around 3.505 to me.

Crankshaft needs grinding too, so that's next.

Posted: **Mon May 17, 2021 12:35 pm**

So, some of you may have been wondering, if the block was standard, meaning the bore size must have been 3.5" ,then going to the next size piston which is 0.010 over, should have a bore diameter of 3.510". Here's the new piston, in all its glory:

But, in my previous post I had measured the new bore size to be 3.505", not 3.510". That's a difference of 5 thousands. Did I measure it wrong, or did Mike not bore it wide enough?

You've heard before that a good shop will not do a bore without a piston in hand. That's because pistons vary quite a bit, threfore the better way is to measure the piston that will be used and add to it the desired piston to cylider wall clearance, which for this engine is 7 thousands.

Let's measure this piston. The diameter of the piston should be measured perpendicular to the pin. However, there doesn't seem to be consensus as to where the measurement should be done. Mike measured it right below the oil ring. Some people measure it about 0.7" below the oil ring, or about half way between the oil ring groove and the bottom of the skirt. Note that the top of the piston diameter is smaller than the bottom.

My measurement shows 3.502" So, according to this, the bore should be 3.509"

But Mike measured it right below the oil ring groove. So, let's measure it there too. I got 3.499". Add 0.007 as piston clearance and we get a bore size of 3.506".

I suppose we can have doubts about the tool used for measurements, which in my case is a China made micrometer. I do have a some faith in it though, because it exactly measures some 3" and 4" Mitutoyo standards.

Posted: **Mon May 17, 2021 1:56 pm**

Well, well, well. Manual to the rescue. It confused me that I could not find a definitive answer where to measure the piston. Then I did.

So, different pistons require different ways of measurement. The piston I got is the first one shown on this page, with note 2, saying it should be measured just below the oil ring groove. Bingo! And clearance by the manual is 0.007/0.010. Therefore, the bore is at most 1 thou tight, with clearance 0.006 instead of 0.007. I think this is not an issue of concern.

Posted: **Tue May 18, 2021 9:47 am**

I realized this morning that my posts here may be interpreted as not trusting Mike's work, but that's not at all the case. Mike is an experienced engine rebuilder and I'm a beginner trying to understand and learn. It's fun to play with the tools too.

Posted: **Wed May 19, 2021 11:49 pm**

Guys, don't mind my ramblings, but one day someone may find some of this useful. It's no secret that I like technical stuff like all of you, whether it's mechanical, electrical, hydraulics, or computers. I'm really enjoying even the littlest time I can put into this first ever for me engine rebuild. One of the things I found difficult was to trust the measurement done with the cylinder bore with the telescoping gauge. Exhibit one:

So, I got a dial bore gauge, which made the measurement much more repeatable. However, I ran into a problem with that too. The dial bore gauge also needs a micrometer. Goes like this: set the micrometer to the size the bore should be. For a standard K321 this is 3.5". To be really precise you also need accurate block gauges, or at least one of that size. I happen to have a 3" gauge, and a 4" gauge. So I can check my 3-4" micrometer at 3" and at 4", but I'm not sure if it's accurate at 3.5" too, because I don't have a 3.5" gauge. The micrometer has a ratcheting thimble so when you measure something the pressure applied to the measured object when turning the thimble is consistent. That pressure if it were to be simply applied by hand would not result in consistent accurate measurements. So, setting the micrometer to 3.5" without a gauge applies no pressure to the mechanism, therefore I again doubted the measurement.

But I found a solution to make consistent measurements without a 3.5" block gauge. First set the telescoping gauge to the largest size it can go in the cylinder bore in a diagonal manner (wrt horizontal engine block face), tighten the telescoping gauge somewhat then bring the telescoping part of the gauge upwards towards horizontality and a little past it. This is pretty standard. Now tighten the telescoping gauge well and and measure it with the micrometer. Block the micrometer to that measurement. Put the dial bore gauge in between the micrometer and set the dial to zero. The dial bore gauge usually has zero and then plus and minus 5 gradations. The idea is that once set to zero on a size that you want, anything plus or minus is easy to see. Once the dial bore gauge is zeroed in between the micrometer, take it out and measure the cylinder bore. If the needle does not go to 0, your measurement with the telescoping gauge was not done right.

Using this procedure I can say with confidence that the piston to cylinder clearance is 6.5 thousands of an inch. The confidence comes from the procedure above, and from the fact that I measured the piston using the same micrometer. So even if the micrometer may not be able to measure the piston alone accurately, or the cylinder bore alone accurately, the relative measurement has to be accurate. Well, as accurate as the Mitutoyo 3" and 4" standards are, which is way more accurate than it matters on an 50 years old air cooled engine.

Posted: **Thu May 20, 2021 1:37 pm**

Moving on. It's good to have access to an experienced engine rebuilder. Mike pointed something out to me that I was not aware of. He asked me if the tappets were worn out. I don't think the manual mentions this. So here are the tappets.

Though some wear/shine can be seen, it doesn't seem to me like it's worn out as an indent on the face of the valve lifter. I'm inclined to leave the faces as they are. The alternative would be to get the bolt out and put it in the lathe/drill press and try to flatten the face with sandpaper?

If you guys have experience with this I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Posted: **Fri May 21, 2021 10:34 am**

Dropped off the crankshaft for grinding. What a shop!

Posted: **Fri May 21, 2021 10:53 am**

Eugene,

That is good to know. Portave Tool and Die is one of my rush suppliers at 61 Advanced Rd. When working in Etobicoke area knowing where trusted machine shops can be found is a plus.

Spike

Posted: **Fri May 21, 2021 11:14 am**

f you tell him in advance he can do it on the spot while you wait! Nice guy, family business.

Posted: **Fri May 21, 2021 5:31 pm**

wow , that is some serious grinding machines .
Dave

Posted: **Sat May 29, 2021 9:41 pm**

Got the crankshaft back on Friday. Gave him the rod so it was ground not to measurement but to fit the rod perfectly. I didn't measure it yet though I'm curious.

Posted: **Sun May 30, 2021 12:19 pm**

I don't remember ever replacing a tappet in a Kohler single, they are extremely hard and rarely show any wear. I do however pay attention to the adjusting nut that contacts the valve stem as they are not hardened and will show wear at the contact point making it impossible to get an accurate reading with a thickness gauge when setting the valve lash. This can be easily corrected with a file or a sheet of abrasive on a surface plate.

Bob

Posted: **Sun May 30, 2021 4:15 pm**

myerslawnandgarden wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 12:19 pm I don't remember ever replacing a tappet in a Kohler single, they are extremely hard and rarely show any wear. I do however pay attention to the adjusting nut that contacts the valve stem as they are not hardened and will show wear at the contact point making it impossible to get an accurate reading with a thickness gauge when setting the valve lash. This can be easily corrected with a file or a sheet of abrasive on a surface plate.

Bob

Yes Bob, Mike of enginebore.com who did the cylinder did point this out to me. I have a small lathe but can't figure out a way to hold the screw or the tappet because of the larger bottom edge. So I grinded a little of the surface on a diamond abrasive plate doing my best to keep it flat and at right angle with the length of the tappet.

Posted: **Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:17 am**

Finally found some motivation to continue. Got the bearings washed in brake cleaner and re-lubed.

Looks like Case was sourcing parts from all over. One blocked had an skf from Italy on one side and an unmarked bearing on the other. The other block had this bearing from Poland. The skf is c3. I wonder if that is the called for spec for this application.

Also cleaned this plate which was badly covered in grime.

Getting closer to reassembly.

Posted: **Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:40 am**

I just had to re-do an overhaul done by someone else. It was for a 222, so K301.

It had been bored to .020 over I found. That part was done correctly and was round with the proper sizing. The crank journal on the other hand was not right. It was not round and was undersized for the rod. It sounded the same as a paint can ball rattle. When the machinist measured the journal it was under by as little as .003 and as much as .007.

He reground the crank and we used a .0020 under rod that was done the same as your guy, perfectly sized to the rod.

Actually, you should be wary of any shop that will machine your engine without the actual parts being available for them to go off of.

Posted: **Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:18 pm**

I suppose I was lucky not having real experience with this. You saw pictures of the shop in the thread above, an old couple business, the wife does the front desk and the old guy does everything on the machines himself. When I said I want to go 0.010 under he said in a thick accent "bring the rod I measure and grind it perfect" All his tools appeared of high quality too, what I've seen on the desk were only Swiss Etalon micrometers. The rto od feels like glued to the crank, yet turns easily. No play of any kind.

Now I'm trying to find time start assembly. I'm a little worried that I miss something that someone who's done it before wouldn't.

Steve, anyone else, does it matter if the crank bearings are C3 or not? Because one of the original bearings is marked C3 and the other isn't, I'm wondering if all should be C3, or the C3 is meant for one of the positions. By definition C3 has more internal clearance, room for expansion due to heat. So I'm thinking that all bearings should really be C3 in the engine.

Posted: **Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:34 am**

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:18 pm I suppose I was lucky not having real experience with this. You saw pictures of the shop in the thread above, an old couple business, the wife does the front desk and the old guy does everything on the machines himself. When I said I want to go 0.010 under he said in a thick accent "bring the rod I measure and grind it perfect" All his tools appeared of high quality too, what I've seen on the desk were only Swiss Etalon micrometers. The rto od feels like glued to the crank, yet turns easily. No play of any kind.

Now I'm trying to find time start assembly. I'm a little worried that I miss something that someone who's done it before wouldn't.

Steve, anyone else, does it matter if the crank bearings are C3 or not? Because one of the original bearings is marked C3 and the other isn't, I'm wondering if all should be C3, or the C3 is meant for one of the positions. By definition C3 has more internal clearance, room for expansion due to heat. So I'm thinking that all bearings should really be C3 in the engine.

I have never heard anyone ever have an issue with Kohler K main bearings. They are very overbuilt and it would take a special kind of failure to cause them to die or be damaged.

But, some people are very determined to do stupid things and that is one of the big challenges when you are bringing something back that others have owned.

That engine I just referenced is a clear example of a determined hack who left his evidence of incompetence all over the tractor. I have found this more often than not.

But, I have morphed into the Hemlock Case Guy. And as such, I am the guy who gets tractors that the owner just says fix what needs fixing. That part is not that unusual. But, what I also get are tractors that either the owner or other mechanics have worked on to the point that the tractor has been completely quacked. These are tractors that are often purchased at auctions. Auction tractors are often very messed up.

I got a 4020PS for $300. That was auction bought and then given up on and then I got. One of many things I can tell you is that if you bend a 1/4" hydraulic hose far enough to kink it, that kink remains on the inside even though the outside looks perfectly normal.

Posted: **Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:47 pm**

ssmewing wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:34 am
Eugen wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:18 pm I suppose I was lucky not having real experience with this. You saw pictures of the shop in the thread above, an old couple business, the wife does the front desk and the old guy does everything on the machines himself. When I said I want to go 0.010 under he said in a thick accent "bring the rod I measure and grind it perfect" All his tools appeared of high quality too, what I've seen on the desk were only Swiss Etalon micrometers. The rto od feels like glued to the crank, yet turns easily. No play of any kind.

Now I'm trying to find time start assembly. I'm a little worried that I miss something that someone who's done it before wouldn't.

Steve, anyone else, does it matter if the crank bearings are C3 or not? Because one of the original bearings is marked C3 and the other isn't, I'm wondering if all should be C3, or the C3 is meant for one of the positions. By definition C3 has more internal clearance, room for expansion due to heat. So I'm thinking that all bearings should really be C3 in the engine.

I have never heard anyone ever have an issue with Kohler K main bearings. They are very overbuilt and it would take a special kind of failure to cause them to die or be damaged.

But, some people are very determined to do stupid things and that is one of the big challenges when you are bringing something back that others have owned.

That engine I just referenced is a clear example of a determined hack who left his evidence of incompetence all over the tractor. I have found this more often than not.

But, I have morphed into the Hemlock Case Guy. And as such, I am the guy who gets tractors that the owner just says fix what needs fixing. That part is not that unusual. But, what I also get are tractors that either the owner or other mechanics have worked on to the point that the tractor has been completely quacked. These are tractors that are often purchased at auctions. Auction tractors are often very messed up.

I got a 4020PS for $300. That was auction bought and then given up on and then I got. One of many things I can tell you is that if you bend a 1/4" hydraulic hose far enough to kink it, that kink remains on the inside even though the outside looks perfectly normal.

@ssmewing , when you're good at what you do, you are always the last one they come to, and you get the toughest jobs. Many times made worse by not coming to you to start with.

Posted: **Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:10 am**

First part to go in: crankshaft ball bearing. Then valve tappets, and camshaft with a 0.010 distancer shim to bring camshaft end play within spec (0.005-0.010).

Crankshaft next, timing marks aligned.

Was late and I too tired to go on.

Posted: **Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:41 pm**

Question to the experienced rebuilders here or anyone who has rebuilt a k321

@ssmewing @SylvesterCalzone

I didn't keep track of which tappet was on intake and which on exhaust.

Does it matter if I have possibly reversed them? Are they not the same?
Thanks

Posted: **Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:59 pm**

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:41 pm Question to the experienced rebuilders here or anyone who has rebuilt a k321

@ssmewing @SylvesterCalzone

I didn't keep track of which tappet was on intake and which on exhaust. Does it matter if I have possibly reversed them? Are they not the same?
Thanks

I will answer that as a teacher would. Look at the parts manual. If the part numbers are the same for both tappets you are good to go.

The main thing that you will possibly experience is the tappet settings for each is different and so your starting points could be way off.

Posted: **Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:43 pm**

Ha! Thank you @ssmewing. Yes, same part number. This blog post made me wonder though:

http://adventureswithadeere.blogspot.co ... stall.html

See the base thickness difference?!

Glad to see it's inconsequential.

I have to say that the intake tappet has a "tighter" feel then the exhaust one. I'll leave them as they are.

Posted: **Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:35 pm**

Typically tappets and valve lifters are always reinstalled in the same position so that any wear patterns that have been set up with the camshaft lobes are still the same. It's likely not the end of the world if they've gotten mixed around for your K321.

Bob

Posted: **Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:46 pm**

Thanks Bob, I could pull it out and go by feel and try the best fit but I don't see how this is likely to cause problems in the future.

Posted: **Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:35 am**

Eugen,

Once they are mixed up there is no way to determine which one was in which hole other than a 50/50 chance. So not a time to worry about changing anything, just go with what you have.

Bob

Posted: **Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:39 am**

A little stuck again. Haven't taken a picture of how the stator wire was routed behind the bearing plate, or where should it go.

Anyone hint please?

Posted: **Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:29 am**

Never mind, this engine does not have a stator!

I was following the service manual and looked and looked for the stator in my disassembled parts boxes and couldn't find one. Then I remembered that biiig starter and the fact that the voltage regulator on the 224 is not far from the battery. So, the starter must be an alternator too, therefore no stator

Posted: **Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:25 pm**

A little more progress last night.

New valves don't need grinding, I've been told. But I couldn't stop myself and gave them a little zip.

@myerslawnandgarden Bob said on the other site that lapping is also not necessary. Again, I couldn't stop myself. Partly also because one of the seats has not been done with a carbide cutter.

Springs go in.

Compressed with the valve spring compressor, followed by an inordinate amount of time spent fiddling with the valve keepers which kept in falling off the stem.

Like my wife says, I failed to use my intelligence here, mind you late at night and tired. Only after I got them in I wondered why I didn't turn the engine upside down

Keepers in and done for the night.

Posted: **Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:42 pm**

Next time use a dab of wheel bearing grease in the keepers, it will glue them in place until the spring compressor is released

I know, a day late and a dollar short

Gordy

Posted: **Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:31 am**

I should have added. Gun grease may work also

, but the wheel bearing grease I have is thicker and stickier

Just make sure both surfaces are clean and dry, as in no oil on them.

Gordy

Posted: **Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:13 am**

@Gordy good advice! I should have thought of that. My excuse is that it was about 1:30AM after a full day of work and kids so my brain probably was sleeping already. I was a little tricked also by the engine assembly lube which is pretty sticky. But obviously a thick grease would have worked better.

Now, on to the piston and rod. A little more progress last night.

All parts ready to go. All tools ready to go? Oops, can't find the ring installation pliers.

I was able to carefully install the rings without the pliers which I just could no longer find. Let's pay attention to the ring gaps. The oil ring on the major thrust of the piston, not far from the piston pin, like in the picture. The top and second ring on the minor thrust side.

Which is what I did.

Tighten the sleeve and in goes the piston.

Let's not forget the hole at the bottom of the cranshaft connecting rod must be on the side of the camshaft.

There's something that did confuse me this being the first engine I rebuild. The Kohler manual has a table with the torque values for the connecting rod cap.

With different torque procedures for a posi-lock connecting rod than for the capscrew type. Had to do some searches to make sure I don't have the posi-lock type.

Ok, so I torqued the bolts on the cap to 20% above the 285 in lb, which is 342 in lb, or 28.5 ft lb. Then I unscrewed them and torqued to 285 in lb or 23.75 ft lb.

Posted: **Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:39 pm**

Cleaned up the oiler pan and flywheel. Brake cleaner and wire brush, manually. Elbow grease. I so wish I had a sand blaster. Oh well.

Also brushed them with krud-kutter rust stuff, as there was surface rust. No pictures tonight, too tired. Good night to all.

Posted: **Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:03 am**

One thing I always do before firing up an engine is to spin the engine up with no load . ( spark plug removed and no fuel and wide open carb or not installed ) This allows the oil to be pumped or splashed into all the critical areas before firing .
Dave

Posted: **Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:09 pm**

I will do that @DavidBarkey , good advice! Thanks!

This stuff is magical. No more surface rust at all.

Do people paint flywheels at all? I'm tempted to give it a layer with the spray can if high temp paint.

Posted: **Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:52 pm**

After the phosphoric acid has done it's job the metal surface remains in a state primed for paint. So I'm thinking a thin layer of paint can't hurt.

Posted: **Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:28 pm**

Oil pan on. Hm.. Two 1/4 in npt elbows that I have and both are broken.

Off to the hw store to find some. When, I don't know yet. A week of work in the big smoke awaits me.

Posted: **Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:00 am**

Eugen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:28 pm Oil pan on. Hm.. Two 1/4 in npt elbows that I have and both are broken.

DF72F035-827A-4429-AA92-D91BC25E2200.jpeg

Off to the hw store to find some. When, I don't know yet. A week of work in the big smoke awaits me.

If you can get to PA and get a hydraulic fitting 90, they are stronger and less likly to brake .
Dave

Posted: **Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:33 am**

Passing through Barrie next week so I'll try to stop by Princess auto.

Posted: **Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:11 pm**

The flywheel is cast iron. When it goes back in the key should be in this position, according to the manual.

The manual also says 50-60 lb ft torque for the nut and hold the flywheel in place with a strap wrench. You better not stick anything between the flywheel fins. But what if you don't have that strap wrench? You can improvise one from a hammer handle and a piece of strong strap. Like so

Got to about 57 lb ft of torque with this.

Posted: **Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:13 am**

I know I departed from the original paint color, making the engine silver. But I like it better than black. Wish I didn't install the oil pan before giving it a coat of paint. Oh well...

Posted: **Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:39 am**

In my studies of solar heat collectors, I ran across a number of references that black paint is not only better at collecting heat than other colors, but is better at shedding/radiating heat as well. So there is a reason they were black, not just the Henry Ford thing "You can have it in any color you want as long as you want it in black"

Gordy

Posted: **Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:04 am**

Gordy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:39 am In my studies of solar heat collectors, I ran across a number of references that black paint is not only better at collecting heat than other colors, but is better at shedding/radiating heat as well. So there is a reason they were black, not just the Henry Ford thing "You can have it in any color you want as long as you want it in black"

Gordy

hahahaha! well well... but it'll overheat in what I think it is a beautiful silver clean color!

now you made me read this 1956 master's thesis by Richard F. Justus: "Heat transfer coefficient of paint films"

@Gordy It must be the real reason why the green painted kohlers in JD tractors fail more often. Same with the yellow-orange of the cast iron 16HP B&S.

Laughing matter aside, you made a good point, I'm inclined to take the silver paint off and go back to black.

Posted: **Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:50 am**

Looky looky, conclusions from that thesis:

Now, this block and cooling fins had no paint. It was mostly bare metal and rust. According to the info above, that is the worst case scenario. An aluminum based paint increases the heat transfer by about 4%. While a white paint based on titanium dioxide increases it up to 15%. The black paint is almost as good as the white paint.

This motivates me to take off the silver paint and go back to black. As I don't think I can find white engine paint.

thank you @Gordy !!!

Posted: **Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:07 pm**

Eugen - When it comes to electronics heatsinks, a black anodized aluminum heatsink radiates heat 14x -20x heat more than a raw unfinished aluminum heatsink. You can look up the emissivity of the materials. Raw aluminum is 0.04-0.06 and black anodized aluminum is 0.83 to 0.86 (the scale goes 0 to 1 AFAIK). This is only for the radiated portion of the heat transfer. You also have convection and conduction heat transfer. The radiated heat transfer makes up a decent amount of the heat transfer in a passively cooled system (no fan) but in an active cooling system (fan), the amount of cooling that radiation makes up is much less.

Not really tractor related but its a similar concept.

Posted: **Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:36 pm**

Thanks @MattA, I think I won't bother to strip the silver paint, I put a very thin single coat. I'm thinking a single coat of black high temp paint should be just fine.

Posted: **Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:28 pm**

Bye bye silver

hello black

Should've left the back silver. Get it? Silverback?

Posted: **Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:05 am**

When you got no sandblaster you do it with the steel brush. Can't say I enjoyed the paint stripping of the oil dipstick enclosure, up to 2AM, but what needs to be done needs to be done.

Slow progress, but progress nonetheless.

Posted: **Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:08 pm**

One of those miracles of life, today the little ones went to sleep earlier. After evening chores are done, I can do a little work in the shop.

A bit of detailing. After a lot of wire wheel I must say. This is my wire wheel. Older than me, put together by someone who didn't have a lot of money, like me. I have to turn the wheel by hand to start it when I plug it in. I love it, no solid state, no ram failure, give it a whirl and it turns.

Here are the results of wire brushing and some paint.

Posted: **Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:27 pm**

Turns out the breather assembly was missing the reed valve and the filter

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:21 am**

Eugen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:27 pm Turns out the breather assembly was missing the reed valve and the filter :headbash

My 222 would not stop leaking at the breather / valve cover . It had bean repeatedly over tightened over its life time . I tried brazing steel rod to the back side to reinforce it , headed but didn't stop the leak . So after seeing what the pullers due to the hoped Kseries I made a new simple one out of place aluminum . Not pretty but no more leaks there . All the rest of the PCV assembly is widely available online NEW. I beleave our friend Mike at engine bore has them as well.

Dave

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:16 am**

Eugen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:27 pm Turns out the breather assembly was missing the reed valve and the filter

Sometimes you want this to be the PO

with your hand on the back of his head and maybe a little of this too

I am dealing with that now. A Simplicity 7116 followed me home. It has the VERY rare power steering, the PO was up front in the ad about the PS oil leak and that it it was impossible to turn to the left. As I inspected it, the hoses had been changed (oversized with swivel adaptors) well most of the oil leak was from multiple loose hoses and swivels

And looking at the PS unit I already have the PO had the hoses on wrong

So I change that and it steers like a dream now

Add to that a snapped off bolt on the back of the PS unit that let the unit twist sideways and rub hard against the steering linkage

I'll resist going on and hijacking the thread farther

But buying used means sometimes dealing with PO's that must have been Short bus passengers

Gordy

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:12 pm**

Haha @Gordy we're pretty relaxed here about not staying super focused on a topic.

I think we should have a sticky thread something like "Rants about the previous owner!"

Present company excluded of course.

I mean, look at this!

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:09 am**

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:12 pm Haha @Gordy we're pretty relaxed here about not staying super focused on a topic.

I think we should have a sticky thread something like "Rants about the previous owner!" Present company excluded of course.

I mean, look at this!

4F236885-C114-4EB4-AE36-9A3BF8EF8F47.jpeg

Just remember guys if it weren't for the stupidity of PO.s many of us wouldn't have gotten some of the deals we got over the years . I agree some thing the want to be You Tube mechanic do will drive us crazy . But the more they @@#$%^&* it up and and get frustrated at the POS because it is not there stupidity after all they all stayed at Super 8 last night . So that makes them experts. There POS. is our next bargon . You got to hope they didn't damage stuff to much that it no longer is bargon.

Just saying
Dave

Posted: **Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:44 pm**

It's a double edged sword Dave

Had to go to Toronto again for a few days with the job. Now that we're back from the zoo and children nap, outside it's drizzling and I got a few minutes to spare.

One small step of progress.

Posted: **Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:12 pm**

I hit a bit of a snag, I don't remember how the head nuts and washers are ordered. Looking through the various manuals has not made it any clearer. Does have any pointers?

Posted: **Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:05 pm**

Eugen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:12 pm I hit a bit of a snag, I don't remember how the head nuts and washers are ordered. Looking through the various manuals has not made it any clearer. Does have any pointers?

No sure I am understanding the question . BUt here goes . The washer goes on first with the domed side up / convex side down and the the nut on next . The nut being the little metal hex thing with threaded hole in it , not you .

I hope that helps bud.
Dave

Posted: **Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:34 pm**

Haha, good one Dave! Let's see. There are 7 studs and two bolts on the head.

And some number of these items:
2 x bolts
5 x tubes
9 x 1/8 in washers
7 x spring washers
7 x nuts

I think I'm missing two of those tubes. Also not sure if those tubes go beneath or above the 1/8" washers.

This is how it would make sense to me.

Posted: **Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:10 pm**

Parts manual comes to the rescue.

But clearly I don't have all the nuts, washers, and distancers that were there originally.

Oh well...

Posted: **Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:16 pm**

manuals/More/Model-644-646-p33.pdf on page 15- #4 is the shroud that sits on top of

standoff spacer #5.

So at the very minimum it would be spacer #5, then the shroud,

add a washer, then the lock washer and nut.

On old shrouds and tins vibration damage around holes can cause a lot of stress cracks. Adding washers as backups helps spread the stresses out and adds life to the tins.

Spike.

Posted: **Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:42 am**

I have bins of bits and pieces . what are you missing ?

Dave

Posted: **Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:27 pm**

Lucky me @DavidBarkey set me up with the missing hardware.

Closer and closer to throw this thing onto a machine and see if I screwed up or not

Posted: **Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:38 pm**

Any time bud , and thanks for looking at my phone-computer issue .
Dave

Posted: **Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:50 pm**

There was this engine shroud I couldn't

so I has so many other things to deal with, after searching for it thrice I gave up and everything went on the back burner.

Guess what, I wasn't looking for it today and we just about bumped into each other.

This gave me a little oomph and painted a couple of other parts. I knowledge it's not the right colour and I pleased guilty. But it was the only colour good quality email in had on hand. Sorry!

Hoping to get this 244 in the tent and throw the rebuild engine in it before the snow falls.

Posted: **Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:06 am**

Another inch closer to the finish line.

Posted: **Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:47 pm**

Minor setback. Couldn't find the original spark plug so that's not a problem me thinks, I got the right type may as well put on a new one.

Ahm! What gives?! Look at that big gap between the 14mm thread spark plug and the threads in the head. So the standard plug doesn't work. Go look for the thread repair kit I tell myself, and the son of a gun is nowhere to be found. Fine, I get to go shopping then, which I hate right? Shopping for tools and parts I just hate

. Not!

Here we go again, tap.

JB weld the outside thread and screw the insert in, then use the swage tool to expand the knurled top of the insert.

Happy insert, happy spark plug.

Posted: **Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:53 am**

The Champion H10C is the correct plug is very common. The older parts books say Champion H10, but that was before they improved the plug with a better tip and added the C on the end. Gapping is unchanged.

Posted: **Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:13 am**

@ssmewing the local store didn't have the Champion, so I got the NGK B6LY which is cross referencing the Champion H10C.

Posted: **Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:48 am**

Another little setback. One of the engine frame mount bolts broke on me. Totally my fault. True the old trick welding a nut, didn't work. The nut just came off.

I was left with the only other method I know, drill through the bolt larger and larger size drill

until I could use this Irwin tool.

Which worked and I proceeded to install a fee more items. Which are not in the pictures

.

Posted: **Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:28 am**

Starting to take shape nicely. Done this work late last night (morning) but was totally out of energy to post.

I'm a little confused as to where this piece goes. Back to look through the parts manual.

Posted: **Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:45 am**

Had very little time tonight to work on the engine, my wife didn't feel well and I wasn't able to come out until very late. Hooked up the carb, and some of the governor stuff. Next time I do something like this I'll take a lot of pictures before disassembly.

Posted: **Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:26 pm**

Finished assembly but the engine isn't starting. Cranks but it seems too slow. It almost seems like the engine is slightly seized. Turns but hard.

kinda bummed right now.

Posted: **Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:57 pm**

Pull the spark plug and see if it cranks any better
Dave

Posted: **Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:33 pm**

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:26 pm Finished assembly but the engine isn't starting. Cranks but it seems too slow. It almost seems like the engine is slightly seized. Turns but hard. kinda bummed right now.

Eugen,

Did it turn hard before fastening to the pump adapter? The spacing of the pump coupling may not be correct if you did not check that. There are two holes on the bottom side that allow access to the coupling set screws so that you can tighten them after everything is bolted into place. Maybe to start with, just loosen the 4 mounting bolts on the rear of the engine block and see if the engine turns easier then.

Just had a guy turn his pump into toast and contaminate the entire hydraulic system by because he installed a different engine and had the pump coupling misadjusted. He would have been money and time ahead if his engine did not start like yours.

Bob

Posted: **Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:04 pm**

myerslawnandgarden wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:33 pm
Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:26 pm Finished assembly but the engine isn't starting. Cranks but it seems too slow. It almost seems like the engine is slightly seized. Turns but hard. kinda bummed right now.
Eugen,

Did it turn hard before fastening to the pump adapter? The spacing of the pump coupling may not be correct if you did not check that. There are two holes on the bottom side that allow access to the coupling set screws so that you can tighten them after everything is bolted into place. Maybe to start with, just loosen the 4 mounting bolts on the rear of the engine block and see if the engine turns easier then.

Just had a guy turn his pump into toast and contaminate the entire hydraulic system by because he installed a different engine and had the pump coupling misadjusted. He would have been money and time ahead if his engine did not start like yours.

Bob

Similar story from my local former Case dealer Joe. The tractor owner replaced the pump, then brought it in for lack of power to the wheels. When Joe loosened the 4 bolts from engine to adaptor the adaptor moved out 1/8" and could not be pushed back in by hand. Joe figured less than 10 minutes to destroy the new pump with all that end pressure.

BUT Eugen looking back to the beginning of this thread, you have the starter/ generator. While I have not dealt with them much, I do know they turn slower than a newer dedicated type starter such as on my 224-78.

Gordy

Posted: **Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:56 pm**

With the spark plug in, slow

https://vimeo.com/628743544

@DavidBarkey With the spark plug out. Good spark, a little faster.

https://vimeo.com/628738166

@myerslawnandgarden Bob, with the spark plug in but the pump housing bolts loose

https://vimeo.com/628746953

Thank you guys! Bob was right I think. Trying to fix it now.

Posted: **Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:01 pm**

Update. After adjusting the lovejoy coupling to the pump it was turning much better but wouldn't start. The ignition key was also not always working until it stopped entirely, tested with a multimeter. When I supplied 12V to the solenoid directly it started turning more seriously and afterwards some time it fired up. It stays running as long as it gets 12V to the solenoid but stops otherwise. I'm thinking either the generator isn't supplying AC or the regulator isn't doing its job.

On the plus side while it was running it sounded nice.

More troubleshooting ahead.

Posted: **Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:41 pm**

Not to sound like a smartass BUT, Generators put out DC power. Alternator is short for Alternating Current (AC).

Google and youtube should explain better this process and how to test your system.

Gordy

Posted: **Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:50 pm**

Gordy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:41 pm Not to sound like a smartass BUT, Generators put out DC power. Alternator is short for Alternating Current (AC). Google and youtube should explain better this process and how to test your system.

Gordy

Oops, you're right

Posted: **Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:44 am**

Well, I was familiar with the alternator type charging system like most modern cars, but had no idea about the Delco-Remy type voltage regulators for the starter/generator like I now have on this 244. Digging up all kinds of info on this, including principles of operation and troubleshooting. Down the rabbit hole I go...

Thank you @Gordy for pointing it out!

Posted: **Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:35 pm**

So I didn't repolarize the generator after reconnecting all wires, which apparently is needed. Had no idea :/

I will try that next.

Posted: **Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:58 am**

Done repolarizing the generator, didn't fix the problem.

I think it's the regulator. Here's why. This tractor's regulator has 4 tabs,
A = armature
F = field
BAT = battery
L = load (lights)

A and F are connected directly to A and F on the generator. BAT gets +12V from the battery, not directly, but through the Amp meter.

Now, L from the regulator provides +12V to the ignition switch (key), which distributes it, depending on the key position. Key positions:

0 = tractor is off, no power goes to any part of the system.
1 = headlights get +12V
2 = headlights, and high voltage coil get +12V
3 = this is spring loaded and it goes back to position 2 if you let go of the key. This supplies
+12V to the solenoid which in turn opens the high current circuit from the battery to the A (armature) of the starter/generator, thus turning the engine. So if you let go of the key once the engine started, ignition switch goes to position 2, which supplies a continuous +12V to the coil which supplies the high voltage impulse to the spark plug.

Fine, here's the issue. When I put the key to position 3 to start the engine, the voltage supplied by L from the regulator goes to 0V. So this makes me conclude that something is not right with the regulator.

The other hokey thing with this tractor is the following. I bypassed the regulator and supplied +12V directly from the battery to the solenoid. The engine does start, not just turn, but runs for real; but as soon as I remove the jumper to the solenoid it stops. This again points to a defective regulator. I think. Please correct me guys, if I took a wrong turn somewhere.

Posted: **Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:27 am**

While looking for a regulator I come across this listing on FB Marketplace

I mean, how timely is that? Turns out that David Heurkens lives in Port Perry, and has a lot of Case parts for sale, as he's getting out of repairing Case garden tractors which he has done for many years. Too bad he's getting out of Case tractors, he'd have made a really good addition to our gang here!

But Port Perry is quite far from me. What do you know, he told me he's visiting Waubashene at the end of the month and he'll bring the parts I need along. Wow! I knew God loves me but He's too good to me sometimes, undeservedly I might add!

Posted: **Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:05 am**

Done some troubleshooting last night. Traced backwards from the regulator towards the battery because I noticed voltage going to zero on the input to the regulator, when turning ignition switch to crank the engine. Between that tab and battery there was the amp meter and a fuse inserted in the system by the PO.

Replaced the fuse with a crimped connection.

The problem persisted. So I took the amp meter ouț of the circuit as well.

PROBLEM GONE!

The engine starts and runs fine!

https://vimeo.com/631937872

Posted: **Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:01 am**

Now on to the carburetor adjustment and break in. This thing came to me with one of those new carbs that has the choke flap arm backwards, such that the choke is on when moving the lever down instead of up. I'd like to change that to the way it's supposed to be.

Posted: **Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:02 pm**

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:01 am Now on to the carburetor adjustment and break in. This thing came to me with one of those new carbs that has the choke flap arm backwards, such that the choke is on when moving the lever down instead of up. I'd like to change that to the way it's supposed to be.

Next time your over remind me and I will show you how to do it .
Dave

Posted: **Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:45 pm**

So it's a little smokey right after the rebuild. I let it idle for up to about 10 minutes a couple of times, and went around the block for a few minutes. Still smokes. Does it take long for the rings to be seated?

https://vimeo.com/633906118

Posted: **Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:21 pm**

Well, I decided to put a little load on the engine, after warm up on highish idle I went through some brush, and in about one minute it started to smoke less. Then, still in Lo setting on the transmission I went a few times over a small hill, which seemed just to easy for the gutsy Kohler. So I set transmission in Hi and went slowly over the hill a few times. That sound of the thumper under load is like music to my ears.

https://vimeo.com/633958774

Posted: **Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:04 pm**

It was mentioned several times on the old site, that under load like a mowing is the proper way to break in an engine. Just idling does not put enough pressure on the rings to make them seat correctly. Don't know personally, all mine were well broken in when I got them

Gordy

Posted: **Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:19 am**

Gordy wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:04 pm It was mentioned several times on the old site, that under load like a mowing is the proper way to break in an engine. Just idling does not put enough pressure on the rings to make them seat correctly. Don't know personally, all mine were well broken in when I got them

Gordy

I don't know for sure with small engines but our race engines were all broken in on a water pump pressure brake . Basically a a large water pump with a restrictor valve to add load . Engines were warmed up at idle , then a fast idle , then sequentially brought up under more and more load , then some raving up and down under different loads load. The fast idle at the beginning was critical to make sure nothing was to tight when warmed up before putting under load . I am assuming small engines are the same as I am still learning these . All in all break in usually took about 2 hours , change oil and ready to put in race car .

Dave

Posted: **Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:25 am**

I did the low idle, and high idle as well. Wasn't in the right mood to put a deck on, but going through the brush added a light load, then up that hill a few times seemed to do the trick and was glad to see the light smoke all gone.

There used to be a guy on the internet, motoman or something like that and he was apparently rebuilding race car engines and had a write up on how he was doing the engine break in. Was not gentle at all. In 2008 I bought myself a brand new Suzuki V-Strom 650cc. It was a wet and dark October night when I rode it out a dealership in Brampton and I took a risk and applied the crazy break in on country roads north of Toronto. I still have that bike and the engine pulls like crazy and no oil burning.

My intention is to apply a variety of loads on this engine until I'm pretty sure the rings are set in well. Have to say I'm pretty pleased with the rebuild atm. My wife thinks it's some kind of miracle that I didn't make some major mistake given that most of the work I've done on it was at late hours in the night tired and sleepy. Hopefully the only updates to this thread will be about oil changes and such.

Posted: **Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:02 pm**

A little more loading up the engine, by controlled pushing against a small tree stump

https://vimeo.com/635470837

And no more smoke even at idle

https://vimeo.com/635472031

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:32 pm**

Hi all, the restored 244 is running fine but the cranking it to start still seems a little slow. @myerslawnandgarden mentioned the lovejoy coupler needing to be adjusted and I thought I did, as it at least starts, but I am now wondering what the proper procedure is for adjusting the engine to pump coupling.

I have looked for it on the net and so far found nothing explicit for this.

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:15 pm**

In my experience those starter generator combos always turn slower than the newer engines with the dedicated starter you may be used to.

Gordy

Posted: **Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:01 am**

My 222 with the starter generator setup is slow turning over as well . I went over everything including rebuilding the st/gen . It is just the way it is . I talked to and long time Auto electric re-builder and he told me because it has to do 2 jobs there are compromises. So it does both ok but neither one well . What I have found that helps is to start it with throttle wide open and add the choke after it starts rolling over . As soon as it starts back the choke and throttle down to half , then slowly back both down as needed .

Dave

Posted: **Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:20 pm**

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:45 am Had very little time tonight to work on the engine, my wife didn't feel well and I wasn't able to come out until very late. Hooked up the carb, and some of the governor stuff. Next time I do something like this I'll take a lot of pictures before disassembly.

2AB09EA3-164D-42BA-AEEA-3A6A6F490A5B.jpeg

I have not looked in on your progress for a while. But, something is definitely off with your throttle shaft being much higher than the governor's arm. That linkage should be close to level to the ground. There is also a stated length the link is supposed to be.

But anyway, that is not right. I suspect you went with the cheap knock-off carb or swapped in a carb you thought was the same as the original.

Posted: **Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:36 pm**

myerslawnandgarden wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:33 pm
Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:26 pm Finished assembly but the engine isn't starting. Cranks but it seems too slow. It almost seems like the engine is slightly seized. Turns but hard. kinda bummed right now.
Eugen,

Did it turn hard before fastening to the pump adapter? The spacing of the pump coupling may not be correct if you did not check that. There are two holes on the bottom side that allow access to the coupling set screws so that you can tighten them after everything is bolted into place. Maybe to start with, just loosen the 4 mounting bolts on the rear of the engine block and see if the engine turns easier then.

Just had a guy turn his pump into toast and contaminate the entire hydraulic system by because he installed a different engine and had the pump coupling misadjusted. He would have been money and time ahead if his engine did not start like yours.

Bob

That is crazy that people think the 2 holes on the Kohler adapter go on the bottom. They are not drain holes and if they are on the bottom then they're useless for their actual purpose. The holes go on the top. I have to fix that often. Once the holes are on the top you can adjust the coupler just fine and see the actual set screw. I find that if you actually buy a new rubber spacer that is surprisingly soft and springy that the loose half of the coupler will self-adjust just to where the spacer is relaxed. It can then be tightened with a 3/8" drive hex bit. Those bent pieces of steel that are called allen wrenches are not good enough for set screws which are harder than grade 8.

Posted: **Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:45 pm**

I used the carb that came with the tractor, indeed a new cheap carb. I don't have the original.

Posted: **Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:52 pm**

ssmewing wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:36 pm
myerslawnandgarden wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:33 pm
Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:26 pm Finished assembly but the engine isn't starting. Cranks but it seems too slow. It almost seems like the engine is slightly seized. Turns but hard. kinda bummed right now.
Eugen,

Did it turn hard before fastening to the pump adapter? The spacing of the pump coupling may not be correct if you did not check that. There are two holes on the bottom side that allow access to the coupling set screws so that you can tighten them after everything is bolted into place. Maybe to start with, just loosen the 4 mounting bolts on the rear of the engine block and see if the engine turns easier then.

Just had a guy turn his pump into toast and contaminate the entire hydraulic system by because he installed a different engine and had the pump coupling misadjusted. He would have been money and time ahead if his engine did not start like yours.

Bob
That is crazy that people think the 2 holes on the Kohler adapter go on the bottom. They are not drain holes and if they are on the bottom then they're useless for their actual purpose. The holes go on the top. I have to fix that often. Once the holes are on the top you can adjust the coupler just fine and see the actual set screw. I find that if you actually buy a new rubber spacer that is surprisingly soft and springy that the loose half of the coupler will self-adjust just to where the spacer is relaxed. It can then be tightened with a 3/8" drive hex bit. Those bent pieces of steel that are called allen wrenches are not good enough for set screws which are harder than grade 8.

I cannot find the correct procedure for adjusting the engine to pump coupling.

Posted: **Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:15 pm**

Eugen wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:45 pm I used the carb that came with the tractor, indeed a new cheap carb. I don't have the original.

I would replace that wrong cheap carb with a better one. There are carbs that come with two choke lever shafts. Some of the cheap carbs are better than other cheap carbs. The ones you buy from legitimate parts businesses are better than the ones sold on just random websites. It should run $40-60 and they are actually decent carbs.

Posted: **Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:08 pm**

After discussing this with Dave, and reading the original Lovejoy installation instructions, I think I got it figured out. Indeed, as @ssmewing says, an original spider may have the right spacing (also due to the piston like bumps on its to contact surfaces). The original installation instructions also specify the alignment tolerances, which I am thinking are a non issue if the pump housing is not bent, as the housing is what should supply the necessary on-axis alignment. So all there's left is the clearance, which I will change again.

Regarding the carb Steve, I would indeed prefer an original carb. Looking through my other parts I did find an original carb that came with another k321 I had, seized choke butterfly and all. I'll see if the gaskets from the chinesium carb fit, and attempt a thorough cleaning. Or perhaps just switch the choke lever from the old to the new, don't know. I do prefer the look of the old one, weathered and true with wrinkles just like me.

Posted: **Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:47 pm**

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:08 pm After discussing this with Dave, and reading the original Lovejoy installation instructions, I think I got it figured out. Indeed, as @ssmewing says, an original spider may have the right spacing (also due to the piston like bumps on its to contact surfaces). The original installation instructions also specify the alignment tolerances, which I am thinking are a non issue if the pump housing is not bent, as the housing is what should supply the necessary on-axis alignment. So all there's left is the clearance, which I will change again.

Regarding the carb Steve, I would indeed prefer an original carb. Looking through my other parts I did find an original carb that came with another k321 I had, seized choke butterfly and all. I'll see if the gaskets from the chinesium carb fit, and attempt a thorough cleaning. Or perhaps just switch the choke lever from the old to the new, don't know. I do prefer the look of the old one, weathered and true with wrinkles just like me.

You have an issue that must be addressed. Your throttle linkage to the governor's arm should be parallel with the frame or ground. You have an angle that I have never seen before. I do know that you cannot have it that way. It is not going to ever work right like that. So, changing the choke shaft will not fix the issue of the throttle linkage to the carb being way wrong. I think you got an almost correct carb or something. Like I said I have never seen one that way before. But, the geometry of the linkage will prevent the engine from running correctly.

I would just take that carb off and do what I said to do before. Buy a carb from a dedicated parts seller that comes with both choke shafts and get the correct carb that is less garbage than what you have. Also, that old carb may very well be no good due to throttle shaft wear, very common. That would mean that you would have to clean it and repair the throttle shaft with a new shaft and a new bushing after drilling the hole oversized in a drill press.

You are starting to frustrate me. I tell you that you have a problem and you do not seem to read that part. Please re-read what I wrote and know that you do not have an option to use the current carb. It would be extremely odd, but your governor arm could be too short and that would be extremely unlikely.

Posted: **Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:06 pm**

Look, I do appreciate your advice but simply didn't clue in to the problem you pointed out. I just missed that detail, sorry.

I'll go back and reread everything you said more carefully.

Posted: **Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:58 pm**

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:06 pm Look, I do appreciate your advice but simply didn't clue in to the problem you pointed out. I just missed that detail, sorry.

I'll go back and reread everything you said more carefully.

I cannot be the only that sees that the linkage from the carb to the governor linkage is way off. The issue appears to be that the carb throttle shaft is way too long.

Just Google pics of K321 or K-Series engines and then look at that area.

I really think you need to purchase a carb from a parts house as I said. One that already comes with 2 different choke shafts. It should cost $40-60 US which means it is not from the group of completely crap carbs and into the ones that are decent. What I like to see is a site that offers the OEM carb and then the knock-off both. Those vendors are aware of the knock-offs but also will only sell parts that work. Your challenge is your CA issue that is why I am not suggesting a vendor.

I spend a great deal of time selecting parts. For the most part, Onan and Kohler should be OEM on all gaskets and starters. Vanguard 100% OEM.

Posted: **Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:16 am**

Now that you pointed it out I can clearly see that the linkage isn't parallel to the x-axis of the tractor, far from it. Looking for the right carb for this tractor now. Will post progress.

Here, for comparison.

First, the way it should be

And now, my carb. :/

I found these guys online, they claim this is made in the USA, as a copy of the original k321 carb. And they don't ship to Canada

http://shop.kustomlawnandgarden.com/KOH ... arb30c.htm

Posted: **Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:45 pm**

I went to the back of the tent today set on pulling out the carb with the weird angle on the governor link. Hm.. this is what I found :

Maybe it was skewed when I first assembled it, I don't know, but it sure looks fine now

Very strange!

Posted: **Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:43 pm**

That hole at the top of the governor arm needs attention. With a hole that oversized you will probably have hunting/surging issues. One fix involves removing the arm and welding the hole shut, then drill it to the proper size. Another option would be to drill a small hole near the one at the top of the arm and hook a lite duty spring in it, then the other end of the spring hooked on the pivot at the other end of the linkage. B&S and others use the spring to take slop out of their linkages.

Gordy

Posted: **Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:50 pm**

Yeah @Gordy , I will definitely do that. Didn't seem to affect running but it's an easy fix so why not. Thank you buddy!

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:35 am**

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:45 pm I went to the back of the tent today set on pulling out the carb with the weird angle on the governor link. Hm.. this is what I found :

7B129E54-B63B-4B3F-85BE-82FCF6A17E77.jpeg

Maybe it was skewed when I first assembled it, I don't know, but it sure looks fine now

Very strange!

When engine off carb is WOT. (wide open throttle ). At idle the throttle plate is closed by the governor . If the rod are combo are adjusted too short the will be an exaggerated angle created as the arm tip move forward and down . Has Nothing to do with the carb being Chinese . Somewhere there should be a starting length for the arm be for setting the governor arm . Besides that the linkage is wrong for that arm , as shown in you diagram .

Dave

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:38 am**

I'd like to offer an update on the fate of this engine. It was installed in the 224 tractor that it came with originally, and after rebuilding it and using it for a short time, it just sat unused until about a month ago, when I saw @propane1 and @RoamingGnome using their 200 series tractors and that reminded me I got one. My 224 showed signs of attempts by the previous owner to refresh it, like some new parts and brush painting. In particular the deck it came with was turning very nicely, most likely due to new bearings. All in all it got me thinking this is a good candidate for mower duty, so about a month ago I pulled it from the back, gave it a battery and tried to start it. It ran and I started mowing but stopped after about 15 minutes or so, needing more and more gas it seemed. It would run some more with more and more choke, and then at some point it stopped and wouldn't start, even with starter fluid. I could feel a lot of heat coming from it, more than normal. It was getting plenty of gas from the pump, I checked. This totally baffled me, as the engine was running so nice before sitting there for a year or so.

At that point I knew the head must come off, and when that happened, one could see clear signs of a warped head. Bummer! My theory is that somehow the carb got loose and more and more air would get it, running the engine hot. Flattened the head, torqued the bolts, installed a new (China) carb and made sure it was bolted well to the block. Allowed it to go through a few heat cycles and torqued the head again yesterday. The proceeded to mow the grass on the outside fence. The engine runs so smooth again, and it feels so powerful. The PTO clutch needs adjustment as it's coupling the mower all the time, but other than that I got a really nice 224 mower at the moment. Oh yeah, and I need to find an air filter assembly for it.

https://vimeo.com/834456366

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:09 pm**

Nice Eugen. To bad about the trouble, but you got er fixed.
My 224 has the same steering wheel. Must be factory !
And I see two loader tractors and I have none.

Noel

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:18 pm**

propane1 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:09 pm Nice Eugen. To bad about the trouble, but you got er fixed.
My 224 has the same steering wheel. Must be factory !
And I see two loader tractors and I have none.

Noel

That steering wheel! It's all bent too... try and find original steering wheel for our Case tractors! People buy a whole tractor only to get a steering wheel around here!

hehe, the red one goes for sale soon, you can have it!

send your cruise ship here, the port is only a mile away from me.

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:32 pm**

Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:18 pm
propane1 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:09 pm Nice Eugen. To bad about the trouble, but you got er fixed.
My 224 has the same steering wheel. Must be factory !
And I see two loader tractors and I have none.

Noel
That steering wheel! It's all bent too... try and find original steering wheel for our Case tractors! People buy a whole tractor only to get a steering wheel around here!

hehe, the red one goes for sale soon, you can have it! send your cruise ship here, the port is only a mile away from me.

Hehehe. Sure would be handy to have that loader tractor. No cruise ships in today

Noel

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:55 pm**

By the way, when I first saw the warped head I first reached and grabbed the head off of a seized k321 that came with a parts 444. The head seemed in good shape and I was trying to avoid the labour involved in making the other head flat. So I grabbed that head and cleaned it well, rubbed it a little on sand paper on a sheet of glass to make it really flat, and painted it.

That's when I saw this:

: Top

: Bottom

Went back and laboured the old head which is now in and the engine is good.

But I'm wondering if any of you guys have successfully fixed a cracked aluminum head somehow.

Posted: **Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:58 am**

Never tried fixing one. They will blow a hole right there all the way thru the aluminum. I’ll find the one I have and post a picture. On another site that I’m on a fella posted about that problem a number of years ago. Showed a picture of his head with the hole in it. Exactly like the one I have. Never did figure out the cause.

Noel

Posted: **Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:05 am**

I TIG welded one for a millwright I worked with at GM. I can’t remember what make of engine it was from. I ground into the head from the inside them made a weld with aluminum filler. He had a machinist mill it and that’s the last I heard about it.

Harry

Posted: **Fri Jun 09, 2023 11:00 am**

Thanks for the update @Eugen This looks like a really interesting thread - I'll have to go back and read through the whole thread...

Posted: **Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:52 pm**

Here’s the picture of the one I have with the hole right thru. Nice blue flame comes out of there.

Noel

Posted: **Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:02 pm**

Noel, thanks for posting those pictures. Your hole is in the exact spot as mine! I wonder why.

Posted: **Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:04 pm**

Ya, like I said, I saw another one identical to mine on another site I’m on.
And the hole in his was exactly the same shape as mine is. Have no idea what causes it.
Maybe a lean hot spot, because of carburetor adjustment. Or maybe late timing.

Noel

Posted: **Sat Jun 10, 2023 7:43 am**

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:02 pm Noel, thanks for posting those pictures. Your hole is in the exact spot as mine! I wonder why.

Weak spot in the design on the casting . The fins are not just for cooling , they provide structural strength . Note it is right where they stop before the head bolt boss where it become thicker again .

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:31 pm**

This engine was working sooo nice that I though the story ended with

.

But no... yesterday' me and the kids went mowing off road on a path in the woods with tall grass where we sometimes walk. Give a good workout to the 244 and do a little community service at the same time. All was good until we were almost home, when the the engine stopped. Towed it home and had a look at the carb and spark plug. Seemed to run a little hot, according to the spark plug. Put the spark plug back in and now it wouldn't start at all. I noticed that it strangely had very soft suction at the carb intake, measured with my hand on it.

Ok, off came the head. Diagnostic: spark plug thread insert screwed in low below the head, exhaust valve hit it and got bent.

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:50 pm**

Oh No!!!

Good thing you have some experience with those engines

Quick question for the you @Eugen and others of the collective knowledge bank... Do you use fresh head gaskets every time you pull a head? And where locally (in Ontario anyway) have you been getting engine parts like gaskets and stuff? Or just ordering online from our friendly dealers stateside ?

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 1:04 pm**

For all kohler stuff I get it from enginebore.com he is Mike and lives in Toronto.

I do not always use a fresh gasket. This gasket was new for my rebuild. I did spray it with this for the two re-installs though.

Update: engine back together. A few heat cycling and the re-torque head.

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 5:20 pm**

Jumpins your having your trouble Eugen. Good ya got er goin again. What did you do with the bent valve, straight it out or put another one in ?

Noel

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 5:52 pm**

propane1 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 5:20 pm Jumpins your having your trouble Eugen. Good ya got er goin again. What did you do with the bent valve, straight it out or put another one in ?

Noel

When I rebuilt the engine the kit came with new valves. This bent one was from the kit. But the old valves were still within spec. Re-faced the old one and used it. I would not trust myself to straighten it properly.

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 6:41 pm**

Eugen wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 5:52 pm
propane1 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 5:20 pm Jumpins your having your trouble Eugen. Good ya got er goin again. What did you do with the bent valve, straight it out or put another one in ?

Noel
When I rebuilt the engine the kit came with new valves. This bent one was from the kit. But the old valves were still within spec. Re-faced the old one and used it. I would not trust myself to straighten it properly.

I was teasing about straightening the valve Eugen.

But it’s something I would try. That’s just me.

Noel.

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:12 pm**

I’m with you on that Noel. Just trying to get er done is the fun in the attempt.

Harry

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:40 pm**

@propane1 Noel, the stem was straight. The hat of the valve was leaning on a side. Watch your mailbox for it. Please send it back straight!

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:56 am**

Eugen wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:40 pm @propane1 Noel, the stem was straight. The hat of the valve was leaning on a side. Watch your mailbox for it. Please send it back straight!

Ok. Will do.

Noel

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:47 am**

@Eugen What kind of insert did you use ? What did you do to keep it from moving again ?

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:08 am**

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:47 am @Eugen What kind of insert did you use ? What did you do to keep it from moving again ?

Made of steel, comes in a kit for fixing damaged spark plug threads. This time I used jb weld to keep the insert a here it should stay. And for good measure I put some indents on its rim up top with a small chisel.

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:44 am**

So you put the insert in to fix spark plug hole in head, and when you put the plug in the insert screwed in farther that you had it. ? Just wondering what happened Eugen.

Noel

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:08 am**

propane1 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:44 am So you put the insert in to fix spark plug hole in head, and when you put the plug in the insert screwed in farther that you had it. ? Just wondering what happened Eugen.

Noel

Exactly like that. The insert fix was done first by previous owner. But I put a new insert at some point. I probably didn't glue it well or something.

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:49 am**

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:08 am
propane1 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:44 am So you put the insert in to fix spark plug hole in head, and when you put the plug in the insert screwed in farther that you had it. ? Just wondering what happened Eugen.

Noel
Exactly like that. The insert fix was done first by previous owner. But I put a new insert at some point. I probably didn't glue it well or something.

I don’t know much about those inserts. But I would of thought the the tread would have been tapered, like a pipe tread, so it could only turn in so far. Never knew you had to glue them.
But like I said, I don’t know much about them.

Noel

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 12:34 pm**

This is the kit I used

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 2:39 pm**

Seems like it should not have moved Eugen, by the discription on the ad.

Noel

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:08 pm**

Now I'm wondering why the insert didn't read the instructions!

Ok, on a serious note, here why I think it failed. The insert isn't flared, but it has on the top outer rim no thread, rather a knurled surface which should stop the insert from travelling lower down the hole. I must've trusted this feature and used just simple blue thread locker instead of jb weld. The insert was sticking about 1/8 below the head surface, enough for the valve to hit it. It could've been worse and damage the head, as the cast isn't thick at all in that area.

Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

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