Anybody a guru in this department. How to do a static timing setting. I have done it on this engine but something seems screwy. Of course I could be doing this wrong. When turning the flywheel clockwise, the points open should start to open when the Spark line on flywheel is lined up with the timing line on bearing cover. Is this correct ? If so, why do I have to turn the crank 1/4 more turn before points start to open. ?
Any ideas.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:34 pm
by Eugen
Have a look at my k321 rebuild. One of the pictures on reassembly shows the mark on the crankshaft lined up with the mark on the camshaft. That's how it should be.
I don't remember when in the turn the points rod moves in or out.
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 6:44 pm
by propane1
Well I never had the crank out or the cam shaft. Engine did run before, but broke the rod. So only thing I did was replace the piston, rod assembly. So stupid me thought. Maybe while I have it here I should time it. If they are off in timing, it’s not good running.
Any way, thanks for your response Eugen.
It would have to be off a lot of teeth between the cam and crank to get a 1/4 turn.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:01 pm
by Eugen
Why do you think timing is off?
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:27 pm
by myerslawnandgarden
Propane57 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:22 pm
Anybody a guru in this department. How to do a static timing setting. I have done it on this engine but something seems screwy. Of course I could be doing this wrong. When turning the flywheel clockwise, the points open should start to open when the Spark line on flywheel is lined up with the timing line on bearing cover. Is this correct ? If so, why do I have to turn the crank 1/4 more turn before points start to open. ?
Any ideas.
Noel
Since you mention static timing and the breaker points I assume that you are referring to ignition timing rather than camshaft timing. You are correct, the points should just break when the "S" mark is lined up with the mark on the bearing plate as that is when the spark occurs. If you static timing is way off, the only way to change it is with the breaker point gap. .020" is the nominal setting, it doesn't really matter if you end up at .015" or .025" in order to get the timing correct, timing is more important than gap. The only other thing that I would suggest that you look at is the breaker point push rod as there was an era when Kohler installed an aluminum rod which worked until they changed to a stiffer spring on the points and then they were prone to wear.
Bob
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:02 pm
by propane1
Bob, I’ve changed the setting of the points, but doesn't seem to get the S mark any closer the bearing plate mark. I changed the push rod with a temporary one. I made it .035 longer, but didn’t change any thing.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:58 pm
by myerslawnandgarden
Noel,
Could I get the model and s/n or approximate year of manufacture of your tractor? My apology if you mentioned that information and I missed it somewhere.
Bob
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:41 am
by propane1
I’ll get the info off the engine this morning Bob. This engine was not in any particular tractor. It was with a tractor I bought. I got three engines, tractor, snow Plow and tandem disks at that time.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:03 am
by propane1
Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:01 pm
Why do you think timing is off?
Just wanted to set it better than just setting the points. If you set the points to 0.020 they are supposed to spark at around 20 degrees before top dead centre. So static timing or using a timing light is more accurate. With the timing light being the most accurate. But I don’t have a timing light. These engine have a general points setting of 0.018 to 0.022 with 0.020 being the happy place. They will run with late or advanced timing but not as good as if they are set correctly. Late timing is very nasty. Engines run very hot. Any way Eugen, was just trying to do something right and now got myself in trouble. As normal.
When the S on the flywheel lines up with the bearing plate mark that’s when the spark is suppose to happen. I have to turn the engine a 1/4 turn more past that to get the spark to happen.
The more I ramble, the more confusing it gets maybe.
Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:01 pm
Why do you think timing is off?
Just wanted to set it better than just setting the points. If you set the points to 0.020 they are supposed to spark at around 20 degrees before top dead centre. So static timing or using a timing light is more accurate. With the timing light being the most accurate. But I don’t have a timing light. These engine have a general points setting of 0.018 to 0.022 with 0.020 being the happy place. They will run with late or advanced timing but not as good as if they are set correctly. Late timing is very nasty. Engines run very hot. Any way Eugen, was just trying to do something right and now got myself in trouble. As normal.
When the S on the flywheel lines up with the bearing plate mark that’s when the spark is suppose to happen. I have to turn the engine a 1/4 turn more past that to get the spark to happen.
The more I ramble, the more confusing it gets maybe.
Noel
Noel , have you had the fly wheel off yet ?? If not the problem may be the key is sheared and the fly wheel is out of time to the crank. You said the rod was broken , but I assume you don't know why the rod broke or what happened when it did . Sometimes when things come apart things jam up and the crank stops abruptly and the inertia of the fly wheel can shear the key . If you have not had the flywheel off I would check that and clean up the stater while in there if so equipped .
Dave
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:49 am
by propane1
Well that could be Dave. The rod broke because the oiler hole to the crank was not pointing to the cam. Just hard to say what was done to the engine over its life time. Never thought of that breaking the key, when it stopped working. I did think the flywheel could be on wrong thou. But it did run before breaking the rod. The points, when I first started at this foolishness, were set wide. I’d say about 0.030. And like I say, it was running to break the rod.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:59 am
by DavidBarkey
Propane57 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:49 am
Well that could be Dave. The rod broke because the oiler hole to the crank was not pointing to the cam. Just hard to say what was done to the engine over its life time. Never thought of that breaking the key, when it stopped working. I did think the flywheel could be on wrong thou. But it did run before breaking the rod. The points, when I first started at this foolishness, were set wide. I’d say about 0.030. And like I say, it was running to break the rod.
Noel
I have always found , that when ever you have a situation where you you just can't get something adjusted to start checking all related components. As always let us know what you find .
Dave
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:05 am
by propane1
Will do Dave. Thanks.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 9:52 am
by propane1
Hehe. More trouble. Governor spring and arm worn bad. Nothing to do with my timing trouble thou.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:12 am
by propane1
Looks like you were right Dave.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:35 am
by propane1
So of course I had no puller. It’s at my sons place. so I try the old three screw driver pry trick. Might have worked but got thinking. Found other small wrong puller and rigged it up. Didn’t take long to get the flywheel off. Thought it would have been harder because of the sheared key. Any way. It’s off, but !
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:38 am
by propane1
So after getting the flywheel off, I see loose magnets So what do I use to glue them back on ?
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:23 pm
by Eugen
Propane57 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:12 am
Looks like you were right Dave.
Noel
Crazy!
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:26 pm
by Eugen
Propane57 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:38 am
So after getting the flywheel off, I see loose magnets So what do I use to glue them back on ?
Noel
Others may know better but I once glued a spark plug in the engine after it got spit out because some genius torqued it too much and broke the threads. With jb weld and it lasted another month until I fixed the thread. It was on a crown vic who did not mind running on 7 cylinders only. I know if no better glue for metal to metal.
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:30 pm
by Harry
I agree JB weld works well!
Keep the Peace
Harry
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:54 pm
by Timj
I just seen this same issue discussed in one of the FB groups, JB weld, good epoxy, and gorilla glue were the most common fixes.
You sure have a way of finding trouble, Noel, or is it trouble finding you?
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:58 pm
by propane1
Figured I’d clean up the timing marks on flywheel and bearing plate.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:42 pm
by DavidBarkey
Propane57 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:12 am
Looks like you were right Dave.
Noel
Shhhhhh don't tell the . She will expect it more often .
Dave
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:45 pm
by DavidBarkey
Propane57 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 9:52 am
Hehe. More trouble. Governor spring and arm worn bad. Nothing to do with my timing trouble thou.
Noel
Spring buy new , Arm , if just the hole can be fixed by weld or upgrading linkage .
Dave
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:06 pm
by Eugen
Propane57 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:58 pm
Figured I’d clean up the timing marks on flywheel and bearing plate.
Propane57 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:12 am
Looks like you were right Dave.
Noel
Shhhhhh don't tell the . She will expect it more often .
Dave
Gotta like that emoji. Tells you exactly what’s what. And I laugh every time I see it.
Noel
I have to agree with you more and more about the emoji!
Keep the Peace
Harry
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:40 pm
by propane1
So got some new JB Weld and got every thing cleaned up and magnets back in place. Will see how things go tomorrow. They might all fall off.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:14 pm
by Eugen
Propane57 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:40 pm
So got some new JB Weld and got every thing cleaned up and magnets back in place. Will see how things go tomorrow. They might all fall off.
Noel
If the surfaces were clean this thing will hold!
Hope you got the original JB Weld.
Look at this Noel, go to about minute 6:20
Basically JB weld the original version, is the strongest.
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:44 pm
by DavidBarkey
Propane57 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:40 pm
So got some new JB Weld and got every thing cleaned up and magnets back in place. Will see how things go tomorrow. They might all fall off.
Noel
Did you check the polarization of the magnets before you glued them or mark them ?
Propane57 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:40 pm
So got some new JB Weld and got every thing cleaned up and magnets back in place. Will see how things go tomorrow. They might all fall off.
Noel
If the surfaces were clean this thing will hold!
Hope you got the original JB Weld.
Look at this Noel, go to about minute 6:20
Yep, original. Even got new stuff. Had stuff here but a number of years old. Don’t know if it has a best before shelf life date or not.
Soon as something in the fridge is one minute after midnite. throws it out. Jumpins any way. Instantly no good in mind.
That’s a great video Eugen. He does a great job of comparing things. Watched him on other things.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:06 pm
by Eugen
Considering how cheap it is, and that you want it to last, it's safest to get fresh epoxy.
I'm thinking now, has anyone thought of replacing the magnets with the much stronger neodymium ones? Maybe your tractor goes faster then
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:08 pm
by propane1
Eugen wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:06 pm
Considering how cheap it is, and that you want it to last, it's safest to get fresh epoxy.
I'm thinking now, has anyone thought of replacing the magnets with the much stronger neodymium ones? Maybe your tractor goes faster then
Slower. To much fictional hp loss
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:10 pm
by propane1
Well magnets didn’t fall off yet. So will start the back together process.
Maybe today or tomorrow. 14 week old grandson is here today for some of the afternoon.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:58 pm
by Eugen
Great success!
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:28 am
by propane1
So it works as it is suppose to. Points just start to open just as the spark line on flywheel is beside the timing line on the bearing cover. And the points are set at 0.020.
If I had a timing light and if you can get to the points while the engine is running, you could set the timing by the light, by opening and closing the point gap while the engine is running. Opening the gap on the points advances the timing.
Now on to torquing the flywheel on, getting the covers on and fixing worn governor parts.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:18 am
by Eugen
Great job! How's the compression in this one? Has it ever been rebuilt?
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 1:07 pm
by propane1
Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:18 am
Great job! How's the compression in this one? Has it ever been rebuilt?
Just put rings, piston, rod and that sort of stuff in it last week Eugen.
Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:18 am
Great job! How's the compression in this one? Has it ever been rebuilt?
Just put rings, piston, rod and that sort of stuff in it last week Eugen.
Noel
Yeah, but what does that mean? Was is bored over? New rings and all that? Sorry if already said it and I missed it.
Not bored out. This engine broke the rod about to or three years ago. So, was just gunna fix it up some day by putting the rings, piston, rod and gaskets to have on hand for when an engine went kablewie. Never got around to it. So. The engine in the tractor went kablewie and I didn’t have this engine done. So that’s why it’s getting fixed up now. Need it for the tractor. The one that blew up in the tractor will be fixed up for a spare. Have enough stuff to put it back together. The engine in the tractor that blew up , broke the rod
Does this ramblin help in any way.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:00 pm
by Eugen
Propane57 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:47 pm
Not bored out. This engine broke the rod about to or three years ago. So, was just gunna fix it up some day by putting the rings, piston, rod and gaskets to have on hand for when an engine went kablewie. Never got around to it. So. The engine in the tractor went kablewie and I didn’t have this engine done. So that’s why it’s getting fixed up now. Need it for the tractor. The one that blew up in the tractor will be fixed up for a spare. Have enough stuff to put it back together. The engine in the tractor that blew up , broke the rod
Does this ramblin help in any way.
Noel
Oh now I get it
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:22 pm
by propane1
So back to where I was last week. Spark timing fixed, thanks Dave, magnets fixed, hopefully and governor parts fixed.
Hopefully it runs and charges.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:57 pm
by Eugen
There's no reason not to. Is it still standard bore?
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 5:41 am
by propane1
Yes, standard bore Eugen. Now to get the engine to my sons place, were the tractor is and start at that someday. Tractor needs some engine mounts work before engine goes in. So we will take the snow blower off and put the tractor on the hoist to make it easier to work on. This is the tractor Eugen. These pictures are from a year or two ago.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:05 am
by Eugen
Propane57 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:22 pm
So back to where I was last week. Spark timing fixed, thanks Dave, magnets fixed, hopefully and governor parts fixed.
Hopefully it runs and charges.
Noel
What's happening Noel!? Does it run?
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:55 am
by propane1
Not yet Eugen. Still have to get it to my sons yet. Then fix engine mounts on tractor. Gunna be a while yet.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:15 pm
by Eugen
Propane57 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:55 am
Not yet Eugen. Still have to get it to my sons yet. Then fix engine mounts on tractor. Gunna be a while yet.
Noel
haha, you have a lot of self control. I'd have tried off the tractor, like, immediately good for you!
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2022 2:55 pm
by propane1
no I’m not that excited Eugen. I could bench test it, but I’m not gunna.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:12 pm
by propane1
A little update and head way on this thread. Was at my sons today and he wanted to get the Ford out of the garage and get the blower off. Used the little MF 7 to pull the Ford with blower dragging on the floor out so we could get at it. Took the blower off and used the 3 point hitch to pick up the blower and move it outside for the summer. Then turned the Ford tractor around and backed it in garage. So now it’s much easier to work at. Some day now I’ll have to get the motor over to his place and we can slowly work at it.
Need to find rubber mounts for the engine. I’ll post a picture of what I’m looking for and maybe you fellas could give me an idea where to find them.
Seems to be so many things to do in the spring.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:35 pm
by propane1
Not good pictures of this rubber engine mount. But that’s what Im looking for. Don’t know if there are different sizes or not. Any help in figuring out where to get these would be great.
Noel
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:52 pm
by DavidBarkey
Propane57 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:35 pm
Not good pictures of this rubber engine mount. But that’s what Im looking for. Don’t know if there are different sizes or not. Any help in figuring out where to get these would be great.
Propane57 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:35 pm
Not good pictures of this rubber engine mount. But that’s what Im looking for. Don’t know if there are different sizes or not. Any help in figuring out where to get these would be great.
I personally bought these and they are the same as the one s used in the Case.
Dave
Curious why anyone would purchase an aftermarket item from EBay when the factory OEM part is the same price? If I'm missing something here please comment!
Propane57 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:35 pm
Not good pictures of this rubber engine mount. But that’s what Im looking for. Don’t know if there are different sizes or not. Any help in figuring out where to get these would be great.
I personally bought these and they are the same as the one s used in the Case.
Dave
Curious why anyone would purchase an aftermarket item from EBay when the factory OEM part is the same price? If I'm missing something here please comment!
Sorry Bob did not mean to exclude the Case dealers . But these are made by an oem manufacture for many brands including Case tractors. When I first bought them, I got them for a Bolens and have since learned that this mount was used on Ford / Jacobsen , Case , Bolens ect. that used the Kohler single . I was just showing an example of a source I have used in the past . Where people get there parts is up to them .
Dave
Re: Kohler k321 static timing.
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:33 am
by Gordy
A few years ago a guy on the other group said he bought some of those mounts off eBay, and they did not last. After getting some from our dealers, he was able to compare them and found the eBay ones he got were lighter duty. NOT saying they all will be, but why risk it
Nothing to do with my timing trouble thou. 
So what do I use to glue them back on ? 
. She will expect it more often . 
