3 pt. down pressure

[thebuildist]

I've watched several YouTube videos now that have referred to 3 pt. hitches "not having downpressure".

Do Case/Ingy 3 pts. have downpressure?

Bob

[Eugen]

Yes. The sleeve hitch does not.

[Gordy]

Yes. They have 2 way cylinder

The sleeve hitch has some but there is a slot in the arm from the mid lift to the sleeve hitch that may need to be filled to make better use of it. I made a plug for the slot to get more down pressure with my tiller.


Gordy

[thebuildist]

Thanks, that's what I thought. That's certainly how I built my 3 pt. But looking at things like Kubota and Deere subcompacts, they don't come with downpressure standard. That seems crazy to me!

Bob

[Eugen]

Thanks, that's what I thought. That's certainly how I built my 3 pt. But looking at things like Kubota and Deere subcompacts, they don't come with downpressure standard. That seems crazy to me!

Bob

I'd have never expected that. Why not?

[thebuildist]

I have no idea. I'm dumbfounded. A video by Good Works Tractors talking about "top 15 attachments that use a 3rd hydraulic circuit" and he's like, "People really struggle with 3 pt post hole diggers, because you don't have any downfeed, and sometimes gravity just isn't enough..." and I'm thinking, "I must misunderstand. That can't be possible" but then he's like, "But you can buy this addon kit to add downpressure to your 3 pt. arms..."

And I'm just stumped. WHY? Why would you build a ground-engaging hitch that only has gravity drop? On a THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLAR machine?

I'm speechless.

Bob

[JSinMO]

Thanks, that's what I thought. That's certainly how I built my 3 pt. But looking at things like Kubota and Deere subcompacts, they don't come with downpressure standard. That seems crazy to me!

Bob

It does seem counter intuitive but most implements don’t need down pressure. If you think about what most people would attach to a 3 point it makes sense. Mowers need to float, tillage equipment doesn’t really need to be forced in the ground. They will dig in just fine as long as the implement and 3 point arms are adjusted correctly. Really if you forced a plow or disc into the ground you would probably either damage them or cause the tractor to loose traction. I have 2 tractors with after market 3 points and neither had down pressure, just single acting cylinders.

When the hoses and old cylinders on my 830 went bad I did replace them with a double acting cylinder but that was more for convenience of finding the parts than the need for down pressure.

I could see garden tractors possibly utilizing it more because the implements may be light but I have no practical experience to be able to prove that.

[Eugen]

I found down pressure useful with the tiller, because I like it to go deep. The moldboard plow goes deep all by itself. I also have a ripper which works well stabbing the ground with down pressure, but the tractor isn't strong enough to pull it when it goes too deep. I could live just fine without down pressure, yet it's nice having it.

[JSinMO]

I found down pressure useful with the tiller, because I like it to go deep. The moldboard plow goes deep all by itself. I also have a ripper which works well stabbing the ground with down pressure, but the tractor isn't strong enough to pull it when it goes too deep. I could live just fine without down pressure, yet it's nice having it.

Don’t get me wrong there are times when down pressure is great. Your tiller is a perfect example.

The post hole digger in Bob’s example is a good one for why you don’t want down pressure. You would think you would want to force the auger into the ground to get it to dig. The key word there is “ force”. There are a few things that usually go wrong.

1) you force the post hole digger into the ground and it catches. At 540 RPM is screws into the ground so fast you can’t move the hydraulic lever fast enough to stop it. The shear pin breaks. PTO only turn one way, you can’t back it out. Now you get to spend 5 hours with shovels, picks, bars digging the post hole digger out.

2) you force the post hole digger into the ground, and it starts to dig. The problem is it wasn’t designed to have down force on it. The auger snaps, or the ujoints, or the PTO shaft, or you get lucky and just keep breaking shear pins.

Either way you spend more time fixing the digger and not digging holes.

If these example I give seem to have stories behind them, your right! Been there done that.

In hard ground sometimes you have to hand dig first or soak the ground to get the digger to do what is should with no down pressure.

[propane1]

I found down pressure useful with the tiller, because I like it to go deep. The moldboard plow goes deep all by itself. I also have a ripper which works well stabbing the ground with down pressure, but the tractor isn't strong enough to pull it when it goes too deep. I could live just fine without down pressure, yet it's nice having it.

Don’t get me wrong there are times when down pressure is great. Your tiller is a perfect example.

The post hole digger in Bob’s example is a good one for why you don’t want down pressure. You would think you would want to force the auger into the ground to get it to dig. The key word there is “ force”. There are a few things that usually go wrong.

1) you force the post hole digger into the ground and it catches. At 540 RPM is screws into the ground so fast you can’t move the hydraulic lever fast enough to stop it. The shear pin breaks. PTO only turn one way, you can’t back it out. Now you get to spend 5 hours with shovels, picks, bars digging the post hole digger out.

2) you force the post hole digger into the ground, and it starts to dig. The problem is it wasn’t designed to have down force on it. The auger snaps, or the ujoints, or the PTO shaft, or you get lucky and just keep breaking shear pins.

Either way you spend more time fixing the digger and not digging holes.

If these example I give seem to have stories behind them, your right! Been there done that.

In hard ground sometimes you have to hand dig first or soak the ground to get the digger to do what is should with no down pressure.

Two very experienced posts by JSinMO. The other thing is, If you have down pressure on your attachments while pulling them with the tractor, you could lose traction because of lifting the rear of the tractor. So adding weight to put the tool into the ground is a better option. If you watch plow matches, they normally have weights on the plow. Most of these tractors would have down pressure. But losing traction is the trouble so they use weights on the plow to help push it into the ground sooner. Which is what’s needed at a plow match.
Those sub compact tractors, that Bob is talking about, they lift and lower the 3 point and mower deck at the same time. Don’t need down pressure on mower deck. So maybe that’s why they are like that, no 3 point down pressure. I never liked that. Seems cheap to me.

Any way, there’s a Monday morning ramble. Haven’t had one in a while.
I’m taking my 1951 tea20 Ferguson tractor, with down pressure, to a plow match this weekend. Just an old tractor with the most basic hydraulic 2 sod plow you can get. I do it for fun. Some of them are a little more serious. If I had a plow that had easily adjustable settings, I might do better. Came in second one year out of six of us. But I’ve come in last many times too.
Hopefully have a few pictures.


Noel