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Travel control valve with you know what...
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:04 pm
by ras101
Hi, so I have been looking for a time to change my travel control valve for one with a holding valve and just found one on Ebay! My yard slopes a little to the yard and whenever ZI make the venture to cut to the road I was presented with a run away to the road. Not6 significant but still not what I* wanted. Was out on Ebay a couple of days ago and pulled the plug on a TCV with holding valve from a 1987 446. As this is my second purchase of as valve of this ilk I know what to expect and parts I need to get but what about the rest of us? Do we really need to get these valves or can we just concentrate on other things ?
For me the integrated TCV valve solves more than just being able to slow down it enables me to concentrate on the task at hand - mainly snow blowing.. Still looking to improve that but the Integrated TCV makes even that possible.
Re: Travel control valve with you know what...
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:55 pm
by Timj
Interesting topic, was thinking about this while I was mowing yesterday.
Having been one that started out with a newer tractor with the integrated holding valve, I didn't even know about the run away issue. After getting into the forums and hearing about the white knuckle rides, I truly didn't know what to expect when I brought the '84 448 home. I had mowed with a guy in towns 444 a few times when I was a kid, but he had a totally flat yard. Other than the front yard being flat, the rest of the farm is a hill. From the front yard to the road is steep enough that I sometimes spinout coming up.
The 4118 has never been a thought going downhill, so I was very cautious with the 448 to start with. I'm comfortable with mowing the hill with it using the retard feature at wide open throttle works good, but you can never not think about it.
Pulling a trailer is another story, I pull this with the 4118, it controls it easily.
Today that trailer empty was pushing the 448 down the driveway. I think I would have my hands full with that load of oak.
I also wouldn't want someone not ready for it to runaway.
So in the future I will be looking for a holding valve.
Tim
Re: Travel control valve with you know what...
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:42 pm
by Gordy
The retard feature on my 224-78 worked well. But I did not trust the wife with it
so I bought a OEM optional (addon) holding valve with the necessary tubes and fittings from ebay. Now I let her on it
Gordy
Re: Travel control valve with you know what...
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:34 am
by DavidBarkey
Frankie never had a holding valve . Looked into it when I built him in to a FEL but felt with the weight it was starting to admass(over 2000lbs) I was better to upgrade the braking system to disk brakes at the wheels . Doing so allowed me to remove the old brake drum and reinforce the frame with tubing from tip to tail. I would like to put a holding valve on the new 446 blower tractor I think it will make it a lot safer for my grandson to drive as we have gradients here too .
Re: Travel control valve with you know what...
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:04 pm
by ras101
So, I was out on Ebay yesterday and won an integrated TCV from a 1987 446. just what I was looking for! I have one of those yards that slope down to the road (at least it's a turning circle with little/no through traffic other than the mail man and the Prime guy). I have a holding valve on my snow tractor (1977 446 short frame) and have no issues with run away. My 1979 446 grass cutter is another story! this valve will make the ride to the road less daunting for a 74 year old..
Re: Travel control valve with you know what...
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:39 pm
by Eugen
ras101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:04 pm
So, I was out on Ebay yesterday and won an integrated TCV from a 1987 446. just what I was looking for! I have one of those yards that slope down to the road (at least it's a turning circle with little/no through traffic other than the mail man and the Prime guy). I have a holding valve on my snow tractor (1977 446 short frame) and have no issues with run away. My 1979 446 grass cutter is another story! this valve will make the ride to the road less daunting for a 74 year old..
That's great news!
Re: Travel control valve with you know what...
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:40 pm
by DavidBarkey
ras101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:04 pm
So, I was out on Ebay yesterday and won an integrated TCV from a 1987 446. just what I was looking for! I have one of those yards that slope down to the road (at least it's a turning circle with little/no through traffic other than the mail man and the Prime guy). I have a holding valve on my snow tractor (1977 446 short frame) and have no issues with run away. My 1979 446 grass cutter is another story! this valve will make the ride to the road less daunting for a 74 year old..
Nice , hope you got a good deal on it . As you do not know the past of this part I would recommend you get 4 new Orings for the spools, new Orings for the fittings plus clean and lube the detents and the ends of the holding valve spool while apart . Happy hydraulics.
Re: Travel control valve with you know what...
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:07 pm
by thebuildist
Having done the swap to install a holding TCV into a 73 442, my only advice is to consider doing the swap in two sessions:. One to remove and reinstall the valve itself. The next to hook up the two hard lines leading to the travel motor.
Those two big 5/8 hard lines have to be tweaked a little bit because the work ports have moved downward with the addition of the holding valve height. And it is possible to wiggle them in there and tweak the bending of the lines just slightly to adjust to the new angles. But it is incredibly frustrating. And in my case I was already worn out when I started. So I ended up cross-threading one of the JIC 10 nuts trying to force a line in where it hadn't really been properly aligned in advance. I ended up taking a break and coming back the next day and reattacking the problem when I was fresh and it markedly changed the outcome.
So if I had to do it over again, and therefore my advice to you, is to simply schedule it as two different sessions. One to get done everything except those big lines. And another session just to fight those two lines into submission.
Maybe you're better than me and you don't need to do it. But for me that was the trick.
Bob
Re: Travel control valve with you know what...
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:01 am
by propane1
My 1982 Case 446 and my 1975 Case 224 do not have holding valves. The 224 seems to be a bit better not rolling down hills than the 446. Rolling up or down hill with no control, is not a fun thing. If you read how to drive these tractors there is a way to stop or slow down the rolling. But it just seem odd to me that Case would build it this way if they knew of the runaway trouble. You would think all tractors would have this holding valve in them from the factory. And they knew, because they did start installing the the holding valve at some point. Maybe that was ingersolls idea. I don’t know.
Now I know you fellas won’t really like this idea, but on my 446, I disconnected the linkage to send the drive system to neutral when you stomp on the brake .
But now I can feather the brake to slow me down. The thing I didn’t like was. If you were backing up to hook to a trailer and it was down hill. It was very nerve racking to do. Now I just but the brake on a bit while doing this and it keeps the tractor from rolling into the trailer. Same with any hill. I can feather the brake to slow the roll down. And if needed move the control lever to a slower speed. And like I said. For some reason the 224 tractor is not as bad. But it has not backed up to a trailer down hill yet either. So I don’t know about that.
There’s a ramble for today about my red neck holding valve. Have a good day fellas.
Noel.
Re: Travel control valve with you know what...
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:45 am
by thebuildist
Propane57 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:01 am
My 1982 Case 446 and my 1975 Case 224 do not have holding valves. The 224 seems to be a bit better not rolling down hills than the 446. Rolling up or down hill with no control, is not a fun thing. If you read how to drive these tractors there is a way to stop or slow down the rolling. But it just seem odd to me that Case would build it this way if they knew of the runaway trouble. You would think all tractors would have this holding valve in them from the factory. And they knew, because they did start installing the the holding valve at some point. Maybe that was ingersolls idea. I don’t know.
Now I know you fellas won’t really like this idea, but on my 446, I disconnected the linkage to send the drive system to neutral when you stomp on the brake .
But now I can feather the brake to slow me down. The thing I didn’t like was. If you were backing up to hook to a trailer and it was down hill. It was very nerve racking to do. Now I just but the brake on a bit while doing this and it keeps the tractor from rolling into the trailer. Same with any hill. I can feather the brake to slow the roll down. And if needed move the control lever to a slower speed. And like I said. For some reason the 224 tractor is not as bad. But it has not backed up to a trailer down hill yet either. So I don’t know about that.
There’s a ramble for today about my red neck holding valve. Have a good day fellas.
Noel.
Noel, I think you would like the solution I ended up with on my loader conversion. In reinforcing the frame rails I chose to cover over the crescent shaped cut to the frame rail where the brake lever pin protrudes through the frame rail. That pin is attached to the factory return to neutral spring and the parking brake holding lever and the return to neutral function.
So I had to install my own return to neutral spring and parking brake holding system. And I ended up just installing an extra higher / inner foot pedal that activates the parking brake. So now I can hit the brake anytime I want to and just use it as a brake like you're describing. And if I want to set the parking brake I just put my big toe on the inner pedal and push down until it clicks. And just like that my parking brake is set. When you want to unset you just push the normal pedal again until it clicks and now the parking brake is off.
It's a real enhancement over having to find a lever with your hand and simultaneously pull with your hand and push with your foot. It's super fast and intuitive. But the downside is that the brake pedal no longer returns the travel lever to neutral. But like you I consider that a feature not a bug.
Bob