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4118 major PM

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:51 pm
by Timj
:creeper: I had planned to do this later this summer or fall, but was forced to move things up. I was almost done mowing yesterday, came back to the tractor after lighting the grill to find a puddle of oil on top of the deck. :109: couldn't see where through the side vents, parked it and :drink: .
Opened it up this morning, nothing major, hose to the power steering leaking. The majority of the hoses on this tractor are original.
KIMG0449.JPG
The leak was in the hose going from the pump to feed the steering. This would have been the hose that could have been replaced without removing the other hoses. But really, it's only a matter of time before one of the others will fail.
KIMG0452.JPG
Drained the oil. Disconnected travel and lift rods, got main hydraulic line out of the way. Removed line from pump, TCV, and steering cylinder.
KIMG0453.JPG
Worked my way around the steering valve disconnecting lines.
Then moved on to remove the low pressure return hoses. These really showed their age after last winter.
KIMG0459.JPG
Hood off and cooler removed.
KIMG0461.JPG
Removing return from pump and unbolting filter bracket allowed the hard line and hoses to be slid forward to get clamps loosened and hoses removed, then hoses and cooler could be slid out.
KIMG0458.JPG
.
KIMG0460.JPG
Now to get the needed parts and hoses and put back together. Then replace the mid lift hoses run new gas line, open the rear end and check the differential bolts, maybe install selector valve.

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 11:10 pm
by Eugen
Forced to do preemptive maintenance sometimes is a blessing in disguise. But then you can expect years of trouble free service! :thumbsup:

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:49 am
by DavidBarkey
Looks like a big job @Timj . I have never worked on any CCI that new . Curious. The Onan cooling air vents forward, and see the fan for the cooler . Does it suck cool air in from the front or blow the hot air out through the oil cooler ?

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:06 am
by Harry
The fans direct air in to cool the oil.
Keep the Peace :peace: :cop:
Harry

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:44 am
by DavidBarkey
Harry wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:06 am The fans direct air in to cool the oil.
Keep the Peace :peace: :cop:
Harry
Thanks Harry . So hot air out the bottom ?

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:57 am
by Timj
@DavidBarkey I was thinking the same thing. t
The fan pulls air in through the cooler. There must be enough void at the center of the engine and deflection downward that the fan doesn't seem to fight the air being blown forward through the engine. The engine cooling fins are incredibly clean.

I think Ingersoll turning the engine around was a positive, not blowing all the heat back in the summer.

It's a fairly big project but due. Figuring out what to remove to get access and in what order is challenging. Had about 4.5hrs in it today.

4118 major PM/refurbishing

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:41 pm
by Seabee
Hey Tim,

Good going and good luck to you on this project. After about the 8th repaint on the rear fenders, it appears as though I have no runs in the paint, and the clear coat looks good! I may finish mine by the end of August!!!!!!! In December I will have owned this thing for 5 years, and been restoring/refurbishing it for the last 4 years! Maybe!

Might as well do it right while you have it apart!

Bill Moyer

Re: 4118 major PM/refurbishing

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:24 pm
by Timj
Seabee wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:41 pm Hey Tim,

Good going and good luck to you on this project. After about the 8th repaint on the rear fenders, it appears as though I have no runs in the paint, and the clear coat looks good! I may finish mine by the end of August!!!!!!! In December I will have owned this thing for 5 years, and been restoring/refurbishing it for the last 4 years! Maybe!

Might as well do it right while you have it apart!

Bill Moyer
Thanks Bill, I was thinking about you the other day when I was tearing it apart. Was wondering how yours was coming along, and praying I wouldn't have to pull the engine to get the low pressure lines out.
:geek: Tim

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:37 am
by ssmewing
With the number of tractors that I see I have come to a conclusion based on consistent evidence, that all 4 digit tractors are now old enough that the quarter-inch hoses are either leaking or will be leaking soon. I can only assume the hose was bought on a large spool and used to make the hose assemblies.

The way they leak makes them hard to find. These hoses mostly do not see anything more than momentary use. Power steering models see more use of the power steering hoses.

The rubber has gotten to the point that they leak in at least 2 ways. One is the leak is oozing through the length of the hose. This leak will show itself by appearing covered with just enough dampness that it is covered in dirt and grass. The second way they can leak is at the crimp for the fitting to the hose. You may see very little dirt on this hose. The mid-lift hoses are just as likely as the power steering hoses to leak in the same ways.

So, when I get in a tractor that the owner wants to be renewed, which is what I get most of the time, I replace all the quarter-inch hoses. When these hoses leak it is usually just a quarter-size spot of oil.

I have a guy that buys up Ingersoll tractors and then brings them to me. He is very demanding about what the tractor is like when I am done. Finding the quarter-inch hose leak took many washings and uses to actually see the leak. His tractors are my most challenging ones. He buys most of them at auctions. So, no history along with when they go to auction most of the time someone gave up on them. I do not even get a complete list of what is wrong with them. He buys them and either drives them or pushes them into his trailer and then they come to me.

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:42 pm
by Timj
ssmewing wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:37 am With the number of tractors that I see I have come to a conclusion based on consistent evidence, that all 4 digit tractors are now old enough that the quarter-inch hoses are either leaking or will be leaking soon. I can only assume the hose was bought on a large spool and used to make the hose assemblies.

The way they leak makes them hard to find. These hoses mostly do not see anything more than momentary use. Power steering models see more use of the power steering hoses.

The rubber has gotten to the point that they leak in at least 2 ways. One is the leak is oozing through the length of the hose. This leak will show itself by appearing covered with just enough dampness that it is covered in dirt and grass. The second way they can leak is at the crimp for the fitting to the hose. You may see very little dirt on this hose. The mid-lift hoses are just as likely as the power steering hoses to leak in the same ways.

So, when I get in a tractor that the owner wants to be renewed, which is what I get most of the time, I replace all the quarter-inch hoses. When these hoses leak it is usually just a quarter-size spot of oil.

I have a guy that buys up Ingersoll tractors and then brings them to me. He is very demanding about what the tractor is like when I am done. Finding the quarter-inch hose leak took many washings and uses to actually see the leak. His tractors are my most challenging ones. He buys most of them at auctions. So, no history along with when they go to auction most of the time someone gave up on them. I do not even get a complete list of what is wrong with them. He buys them and either drives them or pushes them into his trailer and then they come to me.
I agree with you Steve, they are at that age, and if you are going to change one, change them all while you are in there.
I changed the two 3pt. Hoses last year, they're easy. I got lucky, my power steering hose sprung small leak right at bottom of bend, and was perfectly obvious. No trying to hunt anything down, but they are all getting replaced anyway.
:highfive:

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:16 pm
by Timj
Almost as fun as Christmas morning (except the paying for it part) :D a nice box of parts for the 4118 and the 448 arrived today. :69:
KIMG0477.JPG
Thanks Bob @myerslawnandgarden :highfive:

Now to start putting her back together.

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:11 pm
by Eugen
No pressure Tim, but we're looking forward to see what you're doing with all those shiny parts! :D

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:10 pm
by Timj
Eugen wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:11 pm No pressure Tim, but we're looking forward to see what you're doing with all those shiny parts! :D
Ha ha, I'm too tired these days to be pressured. :35: :)) actually working on this is relaxing and if I start :cuss: I leave it and come back. You should stop over and enjoy the oil. :rofl:
The 4118 will have all new hydraulic hoses and maybe a selector valve. I'll try to get some more pics putting it back together. I think most of the oil has wore off my phone from the take apart pics. :106:
The rest of the parts are to rebuild the L46 deck from the 448.

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:10 pm
by JSinMO
“Almost as fun as Christmas morning”.

I sure know that feeling. I love it when new parts arrive.
I’m looking forward to seeing some pictures of putting things back together if you can take some. It’s almost as good as being there, but I don’t have to oil all over!

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:17 am
by Timj
Timj wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:10 pm
Eugen wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:11 pm No pressure Tim, but we're looking forward to see what you're doing with all those shiny parts! :D
Ha ha, I'm too tired these days to be pressured. :35: :)) actually working on this is relaxing and if I start :cuss: I leave it and come back. You should stop over and enjoy the oil. :rofl:
The 4118 will have all new hydraulic hoses and maybe a selector valve. I'll try to get some more pics putting it back together. I think most of the oil has wore off my phone from the take apart pics. :106:
The rest of the parts are to rebuild the L46 deck from the 448.
Well :headbash: sometimes a guy should just keep his mouth shut, sometimes you shouldn't even think about things. :35: no pressure! Work on it when have time and relax, sure! :7: I'm babbling, I know. :35:
So shortly after I posted about no pressure my realtor calls and has a good offer on our shop property, how soon could we be moved out? :109: be nice to sell it but alot of stuff to move. Had kinda thought it wasn't going to sell, the realtor had just sent a notice earlier in the week that the contract was up and if we were going to relist, we were actually going to take it off the market. :106: now the 4118 is in the way in the shed at home so getting it back together is now a priority. :pullhair: never a dull moment. :D

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:53 am
by Timj
Got right at it tonight, started with a new feed hose on the AHRM48 deck.
KIMG0481.JPG

Then ran the power steering hoses from the power steering box to the steering cylinder.
KIMG0479.JPG
Then return hose from the steering box to the TCV. Not much room.
KIMG0484.JPG
KIMG0482.JPG
Last hose is feed from hydraulic pump to the steering box.
KIMG0486.JPG
The hoses on the steering are a tight fit, the old hoses all had 11/16" nuts on the fittings. Three of the four new hoses are 3/4" nuts.
Last for the night was hooking the TCV and lift linkages back up.

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:45 am
by Eugen
Nice!!! I have to say it's not my favourite to work with oily stuff, but when you gotta do it you gotta do it. :thumbsup:

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:49 pm
by JSinMO
Although it’s not as enjoyable to work on a project when it has to be done ASAP, you did make a lot of progress. Another evening or 2 and you’ll be driving it out of there.

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:33 am
by Timj
JSinMO wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:49 pm Although it’s not as enjoyable to work on a project when it has to be done ASAP, you did make a lot of progress. Another evening or 2 and you’ll be driving it out of there.
Thanks,@JSinMO got more done than I had planned/expected. Also I think the toughest part of the project too. Waiting on some good hose clamps for the return lines and then they can go back in. Selector valve and a couple of other things will get put off for a little bit. :cheers:

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:37 am
by Timj
Not much to report from this weekend, tractor time was limited to about an hour of measuring up and planning out :writing: the selector valve installation, and getting the last of the needed parts and hoses ordered. Because everything ties together, now is the time to get it done as it gets put back together.
Did get a little seat time today shuttling things around. :69:

As I don't know how having and using the two tractors is going to work out in the future, and as long as both will be getting new mid-lift hoses, I have decided to set both tractors up identical. Same selector valve in similar location, HH34 3pt set up with hydraulic quick couplers so it can be moved to either tractor. The quick couplers will also be set up to hook up hoses from other hydraulic power needs. (Future project, adding a power angle cylinder to the front blade) :smash:

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:48 am
by Eugen
Timj wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:37 am Not much to report from this weekend, tractor time was limited to about an hour of measuring up and planning out :writing: the selector valve installation, and getting the last of the needed parts and hoses ordered. Because everything ties together, now is the time to get it done as it gets put back together.
Did get a little seat time today shuttling things around. :69:

As I don't know how having and using the two tractors is going to work out in the future, and as long as both will be getting new mid-lift hoses, I have decided to set both tractors up identical. Same selector valve in similar location, HH34 3pt set up with hydraulic quick couplers so it can be moved to either tractor. The quick couplers will also be set up to hook up hoses from other hydraulic power needs. (Future project, adding a power angle cylinder to the front blade) :smash:
you definitely got your work cut out for you Tim. I'm probably not understanding well, but you say adding a power cylinder blade to the front, yet you're talking about quick couplers at the back. :hm:

Similar to you, no seat time for me. On Saturday we had a new stove/oven delivered, the old one was old and broke down, we figured a new one makes more sense. A little scary with all the electronics they come now, it's connected to wi-fi :O ! So it got delivered just as our little dog was taking his last breaths (longer story :( ). Was one of those weekends, where you are reminded everything ends and moments in life are precious. There, inserted a little ramle in your thread Tim, hope you don't mind.

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:31 am
by Timj
Eugen wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:48 am
Timj wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:37 am Not much to report from this weekend, tractor time was limited to about an hour of measuring up and planning out :writing: the selector valve installation, and getting the last of the needed parts and hoses ordered. Because everything ties together, now is the time to get it done as it gets put back together.
Did get a little seat time today shuttling things around. :69:

As I don't know how having and using the two tractors is going to work out in the future, and as long as both will be getting new mid-lift hoses, I have decided to set both tractors up identical. Same selector valve in similar location, HH34 3pt set up with hydraulic quick couplers so it can be moved to either tractor. The quick couplers will also be set up to hook up hoses from other hydraulic power needs. (Future project, adding a power angle cylinder to the front blade) :smash:
you definitely got your work cut out for you Tim. I'm probably not understanding well, but you say adding a power cylinder blade to the front, yet you're talking about quick couplers at the back. :hm:

Similar to you, no seat time for me. On Saturday we had a new stove/oven delivered, the old one was old and broke down, we figured a new one makes more sense. A little scary with all the electronics they come now, it's connected to wi-fi :O ! So it got delivered just as our little dog was taking his last breaths (longer story :( ). Was one of those weekends, where you are reminded everything ends and moments in life are precious. There, inserted a little ramle in your thread Tim, hope you don't mind.
Don't mind a bit, I'm truly sorry about your dog. We have two old Labs and know that day is coming. Dogs become such a part of the family, it makes it hard because their lives are so much shorter than ours.

I'm going to mount my quick couplers under the tractor at the selector valve and the TCV to minimize the amount of permanent plumbing under the tractor. The short hoses will stay with the three point, and longer hoses from the blade back. May rethink plumbing permanent lines to the front if I can think of a reason I would need any other hydraulic up front.

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:44 am
by Eugen
That sounds good, thanks for the explanation. It kinda surprises me that Case did not go this route, with hydraulic ports at the front of the tractor. I bought my moldboard plow from a guy who was into JD. He had a nice 318 and told me I should get one. Seemed to me like a nice big garden tractor, and liked that it had the two hydraulic ports at the front. But yes, to get the ports there, the pipes must be routed, and quickly one runs out of space under there. One has to compromise somewhere and carefully weigh priorities. Case reminds me of Apple in computers; within their universe you got all you need to do your work, but if you step out you find not much compatibility. Perhaps JD is like Windows, where you can "attach" all kind of things, not necessarily they fit or work well, but you can. Ramble #2. :D

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:28 pm
by JSinMO
It might be handy to have hydraulics set up at the front of the tractor for future use. Depending on what your doing the tractor could be pulled up and used as auxiliary power to all kinds of equipment.

@Eugen
What you were saying about case not putting remotes up front makes me wonder if there was a proprietary reason at the time. Kind of like years ago when each manufacturer had there own system to attach implements. Now days 3 point is the standard but back then only Ford and Ferguson had it.

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:52 pm
by Timj
JSinMO wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:28 pm It might be handy to have hydraulics set up at the front of the tractor for future use. Depending on what your doing the tractor could be pulled up and used as auxiliary power to all kinds of equipment.

@Eugen
What you were saying about case not putting remotes up front makes me wonder if there was a proprietary reason at the time. Kind of like years ago when each manufacturer had there own system to attach implements. Now days 3 point is the standard but back then only Ford and Ferguson had it.
The hydraulics I'm working on and running are only fed off the lift circuit of the TCV, could be set up but lift circuit is only in the 500-600psi range. Not much GPM with 1/4" lines, at this time I don't see much other than an angel cylinder for me, but we'll see. I don't know if hydraulic chute control on the snow caster is practical vs an electric actuator. For big flow and power to run attachments I have the rear hydraulic PTO.

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:42 pm
by Timj
A couple of goodie boxes showed up today. If the hose clamps would come I could get on the return lines.
KIMG0489.JPG
New hoses attached to the mid lift cylinder
KIMG0493.JPG
Hoses and quick coupler attached to TCV
KIMG0492.JPG
Selector valve mocked up for placement
KIMG0491.JPG
I went with quarter turn three way ball valves instead of the push pull selector valve. They are smaller and about a third the price.
KIMG0495.JPG
All that is left is to make a little bracket, drill some holes and mount the valve.
:geek: Tim

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:16 am
by Timj
Got a couple hours to work on the 4118 tonight. The hose clamps finally came in.
KIMG0502~2.JPG
I got the selector valve mounted and the hoses hooked up.
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KIMG0501.JPG
Put the new low pressure hydraulic lines on and remounted the hydraulic filter and oil cooler.
KIMG0503.JPG
KIMG0504.JPG
After a quick double check of all connections, I guess it's ready to fill with oil and see if there's any leaks. :42:

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:08 am
by Eugen
Looks good Tim! No reason for leaks I'd say. :D

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 8:20 pm
by Timj
So it's been a few months of not really touching this project. You all know how there always has to be an "issue" right. :pullhair: No good deed goes unpunished they say. Yeppers leaks :124: got a few. Was thinking this project was actually not that bad.
With moving my business home there was no time or way to deal with it, so Ingy got pushed to the back of the shed and buried in stuff. Other priorities took over. Well now I have a little time to work on it and really probably should get it done before snow, kinda going to need the blower before :hitsfan: .

Leak #1- haven't dug into it much but think it's the selector valve itself, ohh well I'll get to it.

Leak #2- :45: Stu (short for stupid dumb $h*t) buggered up the thread on one of the nipples on the power steering with the wrench while removing another hose. :headbash: Don't Use an Open End Wrench to take these hoses off. :no:
About the worst fitting to screw up, it's fitted into the bottom of the power steering unit. :((
So I dug around a little for fixes, tried some of these
KIMG0570.JPG
Didn't help, too buggered up. So got this little diamond hone for fixing jic 37° fittings
KIMG0573.JPG
Got lucky and this hole in the cross frame lined up and with a long extension was able to grind the fitting without removing the steering unit from the tractor.
KIMG0493.JPG
Refilled with oil today and I think I got it. :please:

Leak #3-showed today looks like just tighten up a hose clamp.

Sorry I didn't get more pics.

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:20 am
by Eugen
That must've been :cuss: frustrating Tim! Hope it's smoother sailing going forward! :spin:

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:06 pm
by MattA
Good work Tim. I had no idea either of those products existed :cheers:

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:48 pm
by Spike188
@Timj Thank you for posting the tool pictures. The 37 deg flare tool is one that I have never been exposed to.
image.png
Reshaping a flare is definitely an idea to store in our bag of tricks.

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:33 pm
by Timj
Spike188 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:48 pm @Timj Thank you for posting the tool pictures. The 37 deg flare tool is one that I have never been exposed to. image.png
Reshaping a flare is definitely an idea to store in our bag of tricks.
Thanks @Spike188 if you haven't already done so, Google the company. They have some interesting stuff and some videos. Not crazy expensive either.

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:13 pm
by Seabee
You are doing well Tim. I still am not done with my 4118. Getting closer each time I work on it! With a flood in the house, and my 92 year old Father-in-law having a stroke and dying in mid and late summer, it hasn't given much time to work on the tractor.

It has given me time over the last year to get acquainted with Clear Coat with hardener. Boy did that change my paint quality! Totally different. Everyone thought I was being a bit finicky about my paint quality because they didn't know what a good paint job looked like! You know: Paint/sand/sand some more and repaint. Then sand and paint again. My paint jobs always have looked nice and I have been asked any number of times how I do it so well. I comparison to the clear with hardener, those over the years looked like crap!

I have still painted/sanded and painted again, but it just looks so much better! I am ready to put the hoses on the Mower deck AHRM48. The bearings have been here for over a year. The decals are in the box yet. But it sure looks nice with the bare paint in the sun!

One day, will come! My fear is that I have a few leaks yet to find!

Bill Moyer

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:46 pm
by Timj
Seabee wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:13 pm You are doing well Tim. I still am not done with my 4118. Getting closer each time I work on it! With a flood in the house, and my 92 year old Father-in-law having a stroke and dying in mid and late summer, it hasn't given much time to work on the tractor.

It has given me time over the last year to get acquainted with Clear Coat with hardener. Boy did that change my paint quality! Totally different. Everyone thought I was being a bit finicky about my paint quality because they didn't know what a good paint job looked like! You know: Paint/sand/sand some more and repaint. Then sand and paint again. My paint jobs always have looked nice and I have been asked any number of times how I do it so well. I comparison to the clear with hardener, those over the years looked like crap!

I have still painted/sanded and painted again, but it just looks so much better! I am ready to put the hoses on the Mower deck AHRM48. The bearings have been here for over a year. The decals are in the box yet. But it sure looks nice with the bare paint in the sun!

One day, will come! My fear is that I have a few leaks yet to find!

Bill Moyer
I would have been in very good shape with leaks if I had just modified this wrench from the start. :headbash:
KIMG0575.JPG
With all the hoses being new it's been pretty good.

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:36 pm
by Timj
:69: Ingy is out and about and back to earning it's keep. Hauled some stuff around and got a load of wood in.
KIMG0582.JPG
Coming up is checking the differential and new gas line. :letmesee:

:geek: Tim

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:30 pm
by JSinMO
That’s awesome! Glad to see it up and running, and looking sharp. Fingers crossed that the hard work is done and the diff, and gas line will be a breeze! :thumbsup:

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:03 am
by Eugen
What will you do to the differential Tim?

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:44 am
by Seabee
I had the rear axle, front axle, and frame totally apart, plus all the rest. One of these days soon I need to get back at it. I think I have had the tractor for 5 years this month. I removed the hood, fenders, and wheels within a week of getting it home. And I am still not done! LOL!

Bill

Re: 4118 major PM

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:08 am
by Timj
Eugen wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:03 am What will you do to the differential Tim?
Just opening it up to check it over, mainly the bolts. :letmesee: