Another thing to look at on my 648

[Eugen]

Good progress Jeff!

[JSinMO]

Thanks guys, it’s coming along!

I was able to finish up the lift cylinders and mark them off the list.

I moved on to the bucket cylinder but I had to change my rigging to get it into the right position to work on. A chain and a come along around a doubled rafter did the trick.

This one wasn’t as easy as the others. I had to get a bit more persuasive to get it to come apart. I used the 2N as an anchor point and rigged up a heavier come alone. With a strain on it and some tapping it finally came apart.

This one does have some dings in the rod, but I think it will be ok. I can see why it was leaking!

I put the new seals in and it reassembled into the tube fine so I thinks it’s good to go.

The bucket is a little tweaked I had to use a bottle jack to get the pins to line up.

With that done I went after the power steering.
It came apart easily.
No wonder it was spraying oil, the wiper is messed up and the seal inside is all but gone!

Ryan @CaseIngersollNE has been working with me to get the seals together to rebuild this one. I really appreciate his help! Hopefully I’ll be putting this one back together soon!
It’s getting closer to being useful again!

@Eugen i wasn’t sure where your post on measuring and ordering seals was. I have cylinders on the bigger tractors that will need attention too. Do you have website you order seals from?

[Eugen]

Great job on those cylinders Jeff! Oh, the rod that has damage. Normally that has to be smoothed completely otherwise it'll destroy your new seals. I used a sander for one of the rods where I had some small pieces of the chrome gone. The actual ding is not much of a problem, let's say you lose a tiny bit of liquid when the gland passes over it. It's the fact that it has a rough edge that's the problem, it will destroy the seal that keeps the pressure inside the cylinder, and possibly the wiper too. Hope this helps.

Here's the area of the forum where I talked about measuring the seals.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1043&start=160

Must be several pages around that area. I ordered my seals from
herculesca.ca
which I found is the Canadian version of
herculesus.com

The seals are of highest quality as far as I can tell, not made in China, and I found that Case had used all standard sizes seals, easily found in several versions on the site. Ask questions after you have a look at those pages, where I talked about, for instance, the hardness of the o-rings to get, etc.

[JSinMO]

@Eugen Thank you sir! I can’t believe I had forgotten the build you did and the amount of leg work you put in. I honestly feel a little sheepish about it because now I remember thinking I need to save your thread for when I do mine!:30:

I think I about have the tractor cylinders done, unless I really screwed up and oil shoots every where! I still have the backhoe section, and at least two cylinders on big brother the 830 Case that will need attention. Now I’ve bookmarked this hopefully I can remember I did and refer to and you with questions!

[myerslawnandgarden]

Great job on those cylinders Jeff! Oh, the rod that has damage. Normally that has to be smoothed completely otherwise it'll destroy your new seals. I used a sander for one of the rods where I had some small pieces of the chrome gone. The actual ding is not much of a problem, let's say you lose a tiny bit of liquid when the gland passes over it. It's the fact that it has a rough edge that's the problem, it will destroy the seal that keeps the pressure inside the cylinder, and possibly the wiper too. Hope this helps.

Here's the area of the forum where I talked about measuring the seals.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1043&start=160

Must be several pages around that area. I ordered my seals from
herculesca.ca
which I found is the Canadian version of
herculesus.com

The seals are of highest quality as far as I can tell, not made in China, and I found that Case had used all standard sizes seals, easily found in several versions on the site. Ask questions after you have a look at those pages, where I talked about, for instance, the hardness of the o-rings to get, etc.

Thank you Eugen,

Very useful information, much appreciated.

Bob

[Eugen]

Hope it's useful for you guys. I should've been more forthcoming with the detail so that people could do it easier for themselves when needed. I'm sure you'll be fine.

A couple of things that I think I forgot to mention. As I said before, I used a simple digital calliper for measuring the o-rings and seals. Sometimes the seals are completely destroyed so you cannot measure the diameter, but you measure the groove in which they sit, then you know the size. The beauty of the fact that standard AS sizes are used is that the groove or rod will give you the nominal size of the o-ring or seal, and that standard sizes are spread apart enough from each other so that measurement error is ruled out. For instance look at this below. The first column is the AS standard size. The second column is the nominal inner diameter (ID), third is nominal outer diameter (OD), and third is nominal cross section (CS). So, if the rod of a cylinder measures about 1/2 inch diameter as you can see in the picture below, the correct nominal o-ring would be 1/2" ID. The measurement error would have to be more than 1/16" to make the wrong decision for the o-ring. Same with the thickness (cross section) of the o-ring, in this example the distance between two standard sizes is 1/32" for thickness. A decent calliper and a little care when measuring will be enough to decide on the right size o-ring. I'll just add something that most of us knows, the nominal size of a o-ring is not the true measured size. For instance, if the nominal thickness of the o-ring is 1/16" a new o-ring will measure a little thicker. That's because in real life, in application, it needs to be compressed in order to provide a seal.

Screenshot 2024-03-13 at 09.46.47.png (18.02 KiB) Viewed 826 times

Screenshot 2024-03-13 at 09.47.47.png (17.96 KiB) Viewed 826 times

The site I used for looking up standard sizes for o-rings is this:

https://www.sealanddesign.com/technical/o-ring-sizes/

In my opinion is the easiest site to look up these sizes easily. But then, let's say we measured the rod and thickness of the old o-ring and our conclusion is that we need a 1/2 ID and 1/16 CS. Looking it up gives us a standard size of "-014". The site
herculesus.com
has several ways to look up o-rings. There is a drop down menu where I normally would choose Categories->Seals->Inch->Inch O-Rings and the website gives you these choices

Clearly the category I'm interested in is the 568 O-Rings, so I click on that and get another page with many types of 568 o-rings. This is where it gets interesting and here's where we choose the material the o-ring is made of. After some research my conclusion was to use 70 or 75 Duro Buna-N o-rings. 50 or 60 are too soft, and I did not see a reason to use 90, which are significantly harder. PTFE or Fluorocarbon are for more specific applications. So we click on the 70 Duro category and get a page with a list of many o-ring sizes of this hardness and some filters on the left hand side. I chose the 1/2" ID on the left hand side and that made the list smaller, like this.

Turns out that the o-ring that we want, with 1/16 CS is the first one on the list, which is product 568-014. So nice of herculesus.com, they keep the AS standard size as part of the product name. Once I figured this, for all other sizes of o-rings that I needed, once I figured the AS size, I would just search directly for "568-<size>" and that took me directly to the o-ring of 70 duro hardness of the size I need.

Backup rings are also interesting, they are used to give an extra back support to o-rings, so they are always on the opposite of the o-ring opposite to where the greatest pressure comes. They also follow the size standard. Once you figure this out it's pretty easy.

[CaseIngersollNE]

Glad to help, and glad the seals and cylinders on the loader went smooth, we will have this steering kit down one way or the other lol and will finally have a kit available for others to buy since Ingersoll has not supplied parts for it for a long long time and I do not think there was ever a "kit" for it. But we are changing that lol. Talk soon bud! Ryan

[JSinMO]

Well the USPS finally got around to delivering the seals for the power steering so I went about putting them in this morning. As I mentioned before I’ve been working with @CaseIngersollNE to figure out what the correct ones are. They look like a good fit to me!

I have no idea how many of these early power steering cylinders are still out there, but now Ryan should have enough info to put a rebuilt kit together!

I put the cylinder back together and filled the oil tank.

I don’t know if any of you can relate, but for me this is the point in a project I get really nervous and the self doubt creeps in. Did I put everything together correctly? What did I miss? What if this, what if that etc. After thinking of everything I might have screwed up it was time to hit the key!

It’s alive, and no leaks!

After running the cylinders through their full range to bleed the air out and refilling the oil tank I went for a drive. I can’t put into words how happy I am to be driving around without leaving an oil trail behind me!

I think it’s time to put it to work and I have just the job!
I have ditches to help rain water run away from the driveway so it doesn’t wash out so bad. They need to be recut. I used the Kawasaki as a dump truck and hauled the dirt and sod over to continue filling in the ruts the propane guy left me. Everything worked great!

I have other chores I needed to do today but I was having so much fun I went up the hill be hind the shop and started clearing brush! I’m hoping to get this all cleared out and maybe plant some sunflowers here.

It was so nice to just be able to use the machine with out needing to worry about the oil running out!

Of course this is just another step in rehabilitating this tractor. The hoe will need attention next. The bucket cylinder has been leaking for awhile now. And after that it will be the hoses

Little by little I’m bringing this 648 back around. Hopefully over some time it will be a complete workhorse again!

[RoamingGnome]

Congrats on a job well done! Looks like you had a good day for giving it a trial run too I'm sure fixing the backhoe will seem even easier now that you have a little practice resealing cylinders.

[DavidBarkey]

@JSinMO Well done . Yeah , I think we all experience self doubt the first couple of times .