Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

Posted: **Mon Dec 26, 2022 7:44 pm**

I pulled the 446 into the shop today to defrost it. After sitting in the shop at 65 degrees for three hours all the snow finally melted. I cranked it over and it still is popping through the carburetor. That sounds to me like the timing is off. Timing is controlled by the points setting. Before I jump into tearing it apart, I thought I would throw it out there for suggestions.

Harry

Posted: **Mon Dec 26, 2022 8:04 pm**

Harry, sorry to hear about this latest trouble with your 446. Can you describe what you mean by popping through the carb? Does it do this while running?

My 444 started to spit fire through the exhaust today, with big noise like a gun, every few cycles. I had some pretty bad thoughts of what might be the cause when I saw the coil together with the condenser hanging low only on the wires. Somehow the bolts came undone. So, have a good visual inspection first, if you haven't already.

Posted: **Mon Dec 26, 2022 9:54 pm**

Popping through the carburetor to me is flames shooting out the carburetor with an explosion. Especially when I squirt a little starting fluid into the carburetor. All the wiring looks good to the coil and ignition switch. It has a transdenser instead of a condenser on this engine. I can see the led light on it flashing so I know it is working. Next step will be to remove the points cover and inspect the points. This is located in a difficult area to reach, which makes it a PITA!

Harry

Posted: **Tue Dec 27, 2022 7:26 am**

Harry wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 9:54 pm Popping through the carburetor to me is flames shooting out the carburetor with an explosion. Especially when I squirt a little starting fluid into the carburetor. All the wiring looks good to the coil and ignition switch. It has a transdenser instead of a condenser on this engine. I can see the led light on it flashing so I know it is working. Next step will be to remove the points cover and inspect the points. This is located in a difficult area to reach, which makes it a PITA! Harry

Harry do you have a condenser that you quickly install in place of the transdenser ? Just to rule it out for sure . I have seen electronic ign. components
fail where it shoes a test light pulsing at the coil but was not fully collapsing the field in the coil causing it not to fire properly , Secondly can you do a quick compression test to rule out anything internal . Hope it is quick simple fix

Posted: **Tue Dec 27, 2022 6:37 pm**

I got to the problem today. I figured I needed to check the points which are located in a difficult spot on Onan engines. I removed the air cleaner top and noticed the base was loose. Two of three bolts that hold the base to the carburetor were missing. You can only guess where they were! Your right down the throat of the carburetor through the intake manifold and in valve area holding the intake valves open. One bolt in each intake valve so no compression and popping through the carburetor. I slipped a pry bar and carefully open the intake valve more while attracting the bolt to a small telescopic magnetic. Mission accomplished, well almost I figured it was good going to decarbon the heads and valves. I had a spare set of gaskets which I sprayed with copper gasket sealer then installed the heads. Torqued the head bolts down and started the engine, let it warm up then retorqued the head bolts. It was close to dinner so I shut down the shop and headed for a shower and dinner. Tomorrow I will complete this project and take it out to blow some snow!

Harry

Posted: **Tue Dec 27, 2022 7:04 pm**

Wow.

Very lucky guy there Harry. Glad the valves didn't allow them to go any further. Chalk that one up as a big win. Glad you got it figured out.

Posted: **Tue Dec 27, 2022 7:08 pm**

I was wondering if the valve or valves were stuck open. But never thought of the screws. Glad you figured it out Harry.
I bet some of us will be checking those screws. Hehe. I know when I put mine in I put grease in the hole. So the screws hopefully don’t back out.

Noel

Posted: **Tue Dec 27, 2022 8:42 pm**

That could have been nasty! Good save @Harry ! Hope the valves and seats are not damaged though.

Posted: **Wed Dec 28, 2022 6:41 am**

Harry you are not the only one to have this happen . I have read about this on a number of forums on engines with this style down draft carbs and breather set ups . This made me think of something I thought about before and never got a round to .
The holes in these carbs get worn or stripped after time . What if a guy was to epoxy (JB Weld )studs in place of the screws . Then either a small hole drilled in the top of the stud for safety wire or nylock nuts used .
Thoughts guys

Posted: **Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:03 am**

This is how it is on the P220 in Frankie (genny Engine) as anouther option . The 446 Blower tractor with Genny engine has the orginal B43 intake , carb and breather .

like this with little screws .

Posted: **Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:17 am**

Dave, with a p220 in Frankie what modifications were required for attachments to work?

Posted: **Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:39 am**

The little bolts had lock washers on them but they still backed off. I have one Onan engine that I picked up that had a screen over the top of the carb. Probably something a PO put on. Dave maybe locktite studs with nylock nuts. I’m open to others ideas on this one.

Harry

Posted: **Wed Dec 28, 2022 9:15 am**

keith wrote: ↑Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:17 am Dave, with a p220 in Frankie what modifications were required for attachments to work?

The P220 is the same basic block as the 16 and 18 hp and has either a straight crank shaft or tapered as in the genny engines . The clutch mounted to the fly wheel like normal . Depending what the genny engine came out the intake may need to be changed . As for the crank , the P220 has a modified lovejoy connector to fit and hold on the the tapered shaft. The 446 blower tractor has all external parts from the dead BM43 and the crank shaft was tuned straight in the lathe and a key way cut in the mill to suit a normal lovejoy connector to run the pump. As for the the tractor it has had so many modification , to many to list .

: Loader off

Posted: **Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:02 am**

Dave, the closer I look I see lots of changes you made. What is the canister on the right side for?

Posted: **Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:36 am**

I have wondered how often this has happened. Doesn't seem like great idea putting small bolts next to the throat of the carburetor. I’m using lock washers and blue locktite on both of mine, but Dave’s idea of studs and safety wire is a good one. I suppose you could run the safety wire through all three studs, or different bolts if you could find some with a big enough head to drill them. Then they couldn’t back off.

Posted: **Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:56 am**

JSinMO wrote: ↑Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:36 am or different bolts if you could find some with a big enough head to drill them. Then they couldn’t back off.

Years ago I worked as a welder and had access to TIG welders, I welded 1/4" nuts to the heads of the screws then drilled the nuts for safety wire. That was for someone else that had this problem a few times.

Gordy

Posted: **Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:14 am**

keith wrote: ↑Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:02 am Dave, the closer I look I see lots of changes you made. What is the canister on the right side for?

If you are talking about that white thing hanging between the front of the cab and the front tire, it is a oil filter plumbed into the return line for the hydraulics.

Gordy

Posted: **Wed Dec 28, 2022 1:06 pm**

Thanks Gordy that's what I was asking.

The first time I opened the air cleaner top' I thought those little parts might find their way down and cause problems for someone.

Posted: **Wed Dec 28, 2022 3:26 pm**

keith wrote: ↑Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:02 am Dave, the closer I look I see lots of changes you made. What is the canister on the right side for?

Gordy is correct . Now you see why he is called Frankenstein, or Frankie for shot because he can't spell good . Strong like bull , smart like tractor.

Posted: **Wed Dec 28, 2022 3:46 pm**

I'm not very good at spelling, grammar, punctuation or pronounstication. Or keyboarding or snowboarding or......the list goes on.
It is fun and entertaining here.
I don't mean to keep changing the topic on everyone but if I was to find a p220 would it work in my 1979 446? Am I correct in saying the starter is on the righthand side and if so would it interfere with a snow caster or plow blade?

I

Posted: **Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:07 pm**

keith wrote: ↑Wed Dec 28, 2022 3:46 pm I'm not very good at spelling, grammar, punctuation or pronounstication. Or keyboarding or snowboarding or......the list goes on.
It is fun and entertaining here.
I don't mean to keep changing the topic on everyone but if I was to find a p220 would it work in my 1979 446? Am I correct in saying the starter is on the righthand side and if so would it interfere with a snow caster or plow blade?

It has been a long time since I had a snow caster on him. But I do remember the lift arm being modified to clear the starter . Sorry I don't have pics. of that .

I

Posted: **Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:12 pm**

That's what I was thinking, thanks

Posted: **Wed Dec 28, 2022 5:20 pm**

Onan P series (performers ) engines are all of the same basic block as B43, Bm48,ext. except the p224 which is the same block as the NHC Big block (60cid)
The P216, P218, P220 were used in a multitude of products . Case , Toro , JD , Miller welders, electric generators , saw mills, water pumps, Cushman trucks. The list goes on . The onan twin was the go to for big torque small gas twin engine back then . But the flat head design was it's downfall in the end as it could not meet the changing emission standards .
Happy hunting . The last onan I picked up was from a Emerald 4000 generator with about 50 hrs on it the electric side of the rv genny did not work . I use the short block from the geeny and machined the crank stub to suit . here is how I did it .
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=539

Posted: **Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:05 pm**

propane1 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 27, 2022 7:08 pm I was wondering if the valve or valves were stuck open. But never thought of the screws. Glad you figured it out Harry.
I bet some of us will be checking those screws. Hehe. I know when I put mine in I put grease in the hole. So the screws hopefully don’t back out.

Noel

So I figured I better check those screws, after I said it, be just my luck I’d have the same trouble as Harry did. And figured it was a good time to check the air filter too.
So no loose screws and the air cleaner was fine.

Noel

Posted: **Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:22 pm**

Thanks for the idea Gordy. This morning I welded some small nuts to the screws that hold the air cleaner base to the carburetor . The wired tied the screws together so they can’t come loose and go down the carburetor.

Harry

Posted: **Fri Dec 30, 2022 3:51 pm**

Just happy to be useful from time to time

Your way was a lot less work, he had me lay the nuts down so a socket would fit but then he had the to drill the nuts for the wire to slide threw.

Gordy

Posted: **Fri Dec 30, 2022 5:45 pm**

Harry wrote: ↑Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:22 pm Thanks for the idea Gordy. This morning I welded some small nuts to the screws that hold the air cleaner base to the carburetor . The wired tied the screws together so they can’t come loose and go down the carburetor. Harry

I will be doing the same .

Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

Onan engine

Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine

Re: Onan engine