Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

This loader has seen some work in the past. As evidence, look at the out of round hole at the main point where the loader is mounted on the frame.

The plate where the round hole is enlarged is about 1/8" thick. How would you fix this?

I would make 2 new pieces out of 1/4" plate . 2" tall x the length and shape of the top with the hole predrilled in it . Cut out bad area so you have a nice fit and alignment . bevel edges and weld from both sides where possible . Alignment square to frame is crucial .
My 2 cents . you may keep the change

Daves idea is great. I would weld a short 1” or 2” pipe in it too, if there’s room. For the pin to go through. If there’s a pin that goes through.

Just a thought.

Noel

I don't have a 600 series, but it looks to me that the shaft should rotate in the bushing in the boom, but it's seized and has twisted in the up-right frame. That's why it hogged it's way through the up-right. Therefore you should be able to pull the shaft out of the frame and weld a plate inside the the up-right. Of course, you have to un-seize the shaft and the boom bushing first.

When I rebuilt my 646 loader arms the shaft was bent. I ended up cutting it in half because I couldn't drive it out with a sledgehammer and some heat.
So I figured I would increase the size of the shaft which then having to make larger mounting bushings and loader arm bushings. It took me a few long days in the shop drilling, cutting parts, fitting parts and welding parts. I had a lot of pics of this on the original site but when searching for them they were NLA. I also had them on an old lap top that crashed a few years ago. Always thought I should have put all these pics on a thumb drive, but never did.

I believe David has the right idea on how to go about fixing this worn out area. Not a quick job but well worth the effort down the road.

Keep the Peace
Harry

I agree with David.

Bob

You guys are right on. There's a 3/4" rod through the two arms of the loader, the tower, and a pipe as wide as the tower. It was really stuck in that pipe. Banged at it with a mallet and a pushing rod and was barely able to get it about 6 inches out. Everything started to mushroom on the ends.



That's when I knew it wasn't going to come out in one piece and the cutting disk came out.


One inch rod and bushing would be nice for a replacement but I don't have that kind of material.

Eugen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:27 am You guys are right on. There's a 3/4" rod through the two arms of the loader, the tower, and a pipe as wide as the tower. It was really stuck in that pipe. Banged at it with a mallet and a pushing rod and was barely able to get it about 6 inches out. Everything started to mushroom on the ends.



47094042-043B-4F7F-B60E-272F948E6D96.jpeg

A470FD65-4BF6-45E2-A11B-0A17EE19CAEA.jpeg


That's when I knew it wasn't going to come out in one piece and the cutting disk came out.


FFD2A4CC-1699-46A5-8F5E-C0D0EFFA8FB8.jpeg

02A4CFA1-F904-4193-9B83-3D046961595C.jpeg

F47B1195-0459-4579-9144-5CBA586CDC74.jpeg


One inch rod and bushing would be nice for a replacement but I don't have that kind of material.

Eugen 1" is what I used to replace the 3/4". It was a bit difficult to get in all to fit in the tower. Once you weld in a collar it shrinks and then you have to resize it. Like I said a few long days in the shop, but it was well worth the effort.

Keep the Peace
Harry

viewtopic.php?p=651#p651
I searched the CCIGT site and came up with this post I made awhile ago.

Keep the Peace
Harry

Can I ask a possibility dumb question?

What is the purpose of the pipe between the towers? Isn’t the load from the arms all carried by the towers? If it is to keep the towers aligned with each other couldn’t box tubing or angle iron be welded in?

The inner pipe's job is to spread the load over a greater surface area. Without the pipe, the edge of the thin sheetmetal would quickly wear egg-shaped, as has happened here after the weld failed.

With the pipe welded solidly to the sheet metal, the pressure of the shaft then pushes against the extended length of the pipe ID.

The pipe is acting as a large bushing.

Bob

On mine the pipe is a short piece in each side of the towers.
Keep the Peace
Harry

Thanks @thebuildist. My 648 just has the 3/4” pin running across the tractor. It sits in bushings at the towers. Makes me think this one hasn’t seen the loader work that @Eugen tractor has done.

Very interesting guys! The other 644 of mine doesn't have the tube all across, rather just bushing on each side of the tower. The tower is made of bent steel about 3/16" thick. Whoever used this loader, really abused it, in my opinion. I'm thinking t's hard to do this kind of damage from just soiIl or gravel loading work.

In any case, looking down where the arm/boom cylinder is connected to the base of the tower, I noticed something that will be useful. The pin holding the cylinder goes through a bushing welded to the tower base, but then there is a 1/4" plate with bushing welded on the inside of the tower, at about 2" distance from the exterior wall of the tower base, parallel to it. That plate also has a bushing. There is no reason why I could not weld a plate on the upper side too, there is room. That will reinforce the upper boom connection tremendously, and no more tubing all across. I'll post pictures when I get my phone back from the kids

Like this pin

All 3 of the 646 towers here are bushed.and welded inside the tower.A rod runs though the loader arms and tower. The rod is held in place by end caps, one with a role pin and the other with a removable pin. In ideal conditions the loader arms float on the rod. The loader arm should have a grease zero on the bottom side of the arm.
The rod can be brutal to remove from the tower as it aften seizes in.

Oh the matter is clearly settled. The tube I had across must've been a patch solution by the PO. My other 644, like the tractors of @JSinMO and @Harry and @Spike188 has bushing on the tower interior. Thank you guys, this is so helpful!

In the pictures I posted there are only bushings in the tower and are not a continuous pipe. The pin used to attach the loader arms is only supported on the two tower bushings and passes open air though the tower. The pin extends as one piece, loader arm through loader arm.

After seeing what the others tractors have with a sleeve welded in from factory . I would now say make a template to enlargen the hole and make round again both sides . Then make up 2 new oversized bushings and weld them in place restoring it back to the way the others are and that most likely was .

I also remember drilling holes and inserting zerk fittings into the loader arms and the bushings in the tower bushings. You just have to insert them into an area that you can access with a grease gun later. It's a big job repairing with a lot of attention to details. I have noticed my 644 lbh has a bent shaft also and I'm not in a hurry to replace it.

Keep the Peace
Harry

my experience with repairing this issue: https://www.casecoltingersoll.com/threa ... air.92077/

sdunt wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:24 pm my experience with repairing this issue: https://www.casecoltingersoll.com/threa ... air.92077/

Thank you Scott, this is helpful. I also thought of making the bushing for the tower from water 3/4 and 1/4 water pipe, but was hoping to find DOM tubing at a reasonable price, with negative results so far. Interesting to me is that one of the members said why not use bronze bushing inside the steel pipe bushing. The 3/4" sch 40 steel pipe is supposed to have 1.05" OD and 0.82" ID. I found a local source of bronze bushing with 0.75" ID and 0.875" OD. That means I could turn the bronze bushing on the lathe from 0.875 to 0.819 and the bushing would have 0.034 wall thickness. Seems to me a little thin though.

I like the idea of the bronze bushing Eugen. I didn't do that with the 646 when I rebuilt it. A member from the original site mentioned it after I had already had the pieces made. Like I mentioned before I increased the size of the rod to one inch. I had a piece of double extra heavy pipe in my scrap pile that I bored out slightly to make the support areas in the tower and the arms. It was also mentioned by someone that most small loaders don't get a lot of work to justify the bronze bushing. I just like the idea of the bronze in a wear area.

Keep the Peace
Harry

If I were in your situation, I would use what I have.
Put a couple 1/2" plates together, shaped to fit the loader uprights. Weld short 3/4" pin at inside end only. Drill and thread four mounting holes. Drill through uprights to fit mounting holes.

I like this solution @FUTZ ! I think I could make this be maintainable too. Thanks for the idea!

The old trusty Milwaukee portable bandsaw. Slow but steady got the 1/4 plate cut for the tower inserts.

A short video of the band saw in action.

Makes a clean cut. I lot nicer than me with a torch!

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Oct 09, 2022 7:28 pm A short video of the band saw in action.

Neat tool. I wonder if a cutting oil would have helped some.


Noel

Well, to be fair I did try the plasma cutter but as Jeff says, not nearly as clean a cut. The limitation of the bandsaw is clearly the length of the cut, and low speed, but it was fine for these small pieces. It helps that it cost me next to nothing, got it used.

Good point about some cutting oil @Propane57, didn't even come to mind. Problem is, that third hand needed for it. Or maybe just put some motor oil on the line and cut on it?

On to the next adventure. Drill holes for the pipe to go through, and weld the pieces in the tower. Ahm.. wait, first I need to hook up 220V wires to the outside of the house because I want to stick weld it.

I have a porta band mounted in my bench with a 10 x 16 table/platen. It's my go to for metal cutting, unless the object is too big. But you'd be surprised how few things are too big.

Anyway, I've tried cutting oil on the blade and I can't see any real difference. So I just run it dry, with the only exception being exceptionally thick items, things over a full inch solid thickness.

Bob

Used the rod to align things.


The 1/4 inch plate and 3.25" of tubing that goes through it and the tower side plate that was damaged.


The weld around the tubing on the outside. There was a lot of missing material here around the tubing, as the plate was damage. Did my best to fill that in with 3/32 6011 electrode.


Finally, the weld on the inside of the tower. Used 1/8 6011 between the plate and tower.

I know it's not pretty. Had to use the AC welder because the flux wire gun didn't fit well in the inner side of the tower and I could not see anything there while moving it around. But I think there was good penetration and it'll hold well.

It looks solid to me. I think it'll be just fine.

Bob

The replacement engine has some protruding parts on the passenger side. To clear the loader cylinders it needs to sit off center. This complicates the issue a little bit.

It’s coming along! Good job @Eugen
I think your welds will be fine. Once it’s painted and the cylinders are on it will look fine and be stronger than original!

Nice job Eugen. That won’t break out. That’s for sure.

Noel

Eugen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:08 pm The replacement engine has some protruding parts on the passenger side. To clear the loader cylinders it needs to sit off center. This complicates the issue a little bit.


3D39AC06-ACF1-4E19-B4A2-6EEAD392ACCD.jpeg

I have repowered with those clone engine before . They work good , but are a pain to hook up throttle and choke cables unless you change the carb and air filter. I prefer to go with a lawn tractor carb from the same size cc. engine and make an adapter plate . It helps to have a bunch of junk around to compare with .

Made a plate for mounting the engine off center and will use some 1/2" thick rubber spacers.


The pump output is near the hose, fits well after with some wiggling.
Can't say I'm the happiest with this engine in this machine.

Why I said I'm not the happiest with the fitting of this engine? To accommodate its width it has to be mounted on the frame off center to clear the loader cylinders. While not ideal, with the center of gravity moved slightly to the side, it would still be functional. The nastier part is that it extends long enough towards the front of the tractor that it leaves no room for the hydraulic fluid tank and cooler.

Sure I can extend the frame 3-4 inches to move the cooler and tank a tiny bit forward, but for some reason this is bothersome to me. Especially when a Kohler K321 fits so nicely in there.

And I do have a K321, freshly rebuilt last year, with not even 2 hours on it. It's currently in the 224. The dilemma here is that 1) the 224 will be missing an engine, but I can live with that for a while, as the 644 is more important to me. And more importantly, 2) the K321 that's in the 224 has the crankshaft that takes a PTO, and that would be a waste on the 644, as I never intend to run a mower deck on the loader. I hate waste like that.

So this my OCD catch 22 and my ramble about it. So much for the "get the 644 running asap"

All I can say is don’t fight your OCD! If you do it will drive you crazy every time you look at the tractor. Maybe a step back and reevaluate? Possibly another better suited engine could be had? You always come up with good solutions, so no worries!

JSinMO wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:37 pm All I can say is don’t fight your OCD! If you do it will drive you crazy every time you look at the tractor. Maybe a step back and reevaluate? Possibly another better suited engine could be had? You always come up with good solutions, so no worries!

Haha, thanks Jeff. I don't have clinical OCD, it's more that feeling you get when you fit a square peg in a round hole. It'll go in and even work, but as you say, will make you shake your head "what was I thinking" every time you look at your tractor. I think everyone has their own personal threshold for things less than perfect. I have a pretty large tolerance for departures from perfection/OEM and this particular engine fit just went too far.

I wanted to sleep on it for a bit and see if anything changes in how I feel about it. It's getting clearer that the K321 from the 244 goes to the bigger brother 644.

Done some work tonight towards the k321 going in, but too tired to take pictures. Have three hydraulic pumps. One with 1/2" shaft but modified inlet by the PO. Another with the 9/16" shaft. Another that was disassembled by me a while ago, also with 1/2" shaft. As my Lovejoy coupler was 1/2 inch I decided to go with the disassembled one. Cleaned it up well in diesel and then brake cleaner and bowed dry all parts. Oiled and put together. There were some signs of wear on the side plates, but cannot say if it was medium or light wear. We'll see how it does later on the tractor. Then I installed it on the engine together with the pump adapter. Taking a bit of a risk going with this engine for the 644, as I go by the word of the guy who sold it to me, who said the engine works.

Thank you @Timj ! No other way could I tighten the hard line from the pump to the tcv, on the tcv side.

Using parts from other tractors because this one came with them missing. For instance the posts that hold the hydraulic cooler and tank.


The pump now fits the original hard line too.

While your in there putting this machine together I'd be tempted to swap some better parts off your running loader. Especially if your steering gears, steering arm and well anything really. Would save you from some future expenses and not being able to source those parts. I have a second 6018 that was running and working until I had to steal the steering cylinder off it to put on my 6018bh while I was working it digging stumps and the seals let go. Then I was rebuilding the front axle on the bh and found some very worn spindles at the axle ends so now the 6018 doesn't have a front end underneath right now. But my bh has a nice and tight front end. I've since rebuilt the steering cylinder and have swapped them back. This winter I'll be dragging the 6018l back in for repairs. Just a thought.

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Jancoe wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:53 am While your in there putting this machine together I'd be tempted to swap some better parts off your running loader. Especially if your steering gears, steering arm and well anything really. Would save you from some future expenses and not being able to source those parts. I have a second 6018 that was running and working until I had to steal the steering cylinder off it to put on my 6018bh while I was working it digging stumps and the seals let go. Then I was rebuilding the front axle on the bh and found some very worn spindles at the axle ends so now the 6018 doesn't have a front end underneath right now. But my bh has a nice and tight front end. I've since rebuilt the steering cylinder and have swapped them back. This winter I'll be dragging the 6018l back in for repairs. Just a thought.

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Well, it's a good idea except I plan to sell the good running loader as soon as this basket case is functional. Luckily the steering gear and arm look in really good shape. It's quite interesting to me how parts of this tractor, like most of the loader joints, are so badly worn and torn, while other parts are decent.

Today I got some more new 3/8 bolts for mounting the engine directly to the frame. I decided against any type of rubber mounts on this one. If the vibrations will be unbearable this issue will be revisited.

Also finally got to the rear end; got the cover off to assess things. Gears look fine, there's sludge at the bottom. The surface around the opening, on which the cover sits, had a lot of rust and grime. There is pitting too, just as there is on the cover itself. Scraped it well with a cutter and then wire brushed it. Applied rust treatment. I'll leave it open until the wheels can turn, when the gear box will get a good diesel treatment. Then I'll make a gasket and/or use gasket maker, to make sure no water makes it into the gear box again.



To clarify, the reason for the rust treatment even after the wire brushing is because the wire brushing isn't perfect. The rust treatment will convert any little rust that's left into a black oxide which has a protective effect. Normally no water should make it this far though.

Did you check the bolts that hold the differential halves together? With as much hard use as this tractor has seen It would be a shame to have a broken bolt walk out of the differential and break the case once you’re using it. You didn’t mention it in you post so I thought I’d ask.

If the rear cover and case are pitted I’d be looking for some type of gasket maker to take up the imperfections. Not sure if just a gasket would keep water out. I guess it depends on how bad the pitting is.

Looks like it coming right along. You’ll be running it around in no time!

I did Jeff, the bolts are good. Thanks for the reminder!

I'm with you on the gasket maker. I was just wondering if I should use a gasket sandwiched between gasket maker.


As I mentioned the diesel bath in my last post it occurred to me that there's no need to do it later, can do it now. Raised the end on jacks and filled up the differential with diesel. For those of you with nothing better to do, allow me to entertain you with the gears slushing around in diesel duel.

https://vimeo.com/775676339

That was great entertainment Eugen. Thanks. Just what I needed at 5:00 am while I had nothing better to do. Hehehe.

For the cover on the gear box. I would use a gasket. And I would use a very very thin layer of your favourite gasket maker. I like to use a gray silicone that ford uses on there Diesel engines.

I wouldn’t worry about bolting the engine down solid. The older Ford LGT garden tractors had the base of the engine welded to the frame from the factory. I really think it’s the better way. Just my opinion.

Noel

Not to be a downer , but how the gasket and the surfaces between the frame and the trans axle ? My understanding is that the housing is on the bottom of the frame plate and the cover is on the top of the frame plate unlike the GTs which all bolts from underside . If I am wrong please correct me as I don't own one .

My 6018lbh had the cover plate on the top of axle. So bottom of frame. On my 6018l the cover plate was on top of my frame. When I serviced both, cover plate went on top frame. I installed gasket maker between frame and axle. Then gasket maker between cover plate and frame. No cork gasket. Then I used pipe sealant on the bolts that threaded into the axle case to prevent water intrusion. I do believe Bill at Barneveld said they don't sell many and his brother used gasket maker when they service ones in shop.

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Jancoe wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:59 am My 6018lbh had the cover plate on the top of axle. So bottom of frame. On my 6018l the cover plate was on top of my frame. When I serviced both, cover plate went on top frame. I installed gasket maker between frame and axle. Then gasket maker between cover plate and frame. No cork gasket. Then I used pipe sealant on the bolts that threaded into the axle case to prevent water intrusion. I do believe Bill at Barneveld said they don't sell many and his brother used gasket maker when they service ones in shop.

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Hm, I suppose I need to clean and seal the space between frame and axle too. What's the gasket maker of choice for you guys? I have used Permatex "The right stuff" on the car a few times.

Is there a reason you didn't use a little gasket maker under the hex cap of the bolts, rather than using pipe sealant?

My go to for casting surface like that is Permatex Ultra Grey.

Eugen, the service manual for the rear axle calls out for pipe sealant to be used on the top bolts. Like David, I also like ultra Grey sealant also.

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Thank you @Jancoe and @DavidBarkey!


At this point this isn't the most enjoyable type of work to do on the tractor, but needs to be done. Frame separated from the axle. No evidence of rust in between, none at all. Same holds for the gear box interior. This is good news. With fresh oil and sealed well it should last many years.

@Eugen Only one way to know for sure , and now you know it is right .

There was a Napa near me, about half the distance from me to the Canadian Tire store, which is where I'd normally get the Permatex Ultra Grey from. Besides the fact that Napa is closer, it's a smaller store too, and I like supporting the little guy around here as much as I can. Went there yesterday to the the Ultra Grey, turns out they moved location to a spiffier building, up the street. Fine, I go to the new location, obviously they're still moving stuff, so nothing got prices on. Grabbed the Ultra Grey from the wall display, and also asked about the o-ring used on the inlet tube where it inserts into the hydraulic pump. He didn't make much of an effort to find me an o-ring of the same size, ok, fine, they're busy with the move and such. Ring me the Ultra Grey then, please, I say. He does, and I'm shocked the total is almost $20. So, I say, how come on the Napa website it's 12.99, it's 12.99 at Canadian Tire, and 12.99 on Amazon (free shipping). He says "I dunno". Paid and went home, resolved that for the $5 bucks they greedily gouged me on I will never shop there again. My first ramble for today.

I went to home hardware today to get light bulbs. Saw a buddie of mine there, who works at the store. We were shooting the you know what and I noticed a price on a spray can of red rust check. $15.99. Jumpins.
Not to long ago they were $9.99? It’s expensive to stock your home hobby shop with stuff needed to do your hobby repairs.

There now, a quick ramble on hobby shops.

Noel

https://www.permatex.com/products/gaske ... lant-3-oz/

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
Permatex Form-A-Gasket No. 2 Sealant is a slow-drying, non-hardening sealant approved for use in aviation as well as automotive applications. It is resistant to gasoline, oil and grease.


It has held up for the past 7 years on the machine in the video. This is a paste and is the an replication of product that is used in CNC grinding equipment that was OEM at $75.00 per tube. Permatex is 10X cheaper and is what I use on Case Ingersoll differential covers.

Thank you @Spike188 , if I had know about this before getting the Ultra Grey I'd have ordered it from Amazon.

I looked at the receipt from Napa and apparently the Ultra Grey from them is non-returnable. Oh well, live and learn.

It’s unfortunate that poor customer service is the norm now days. The closest parts store to my house happens to be a Napa about 12 mile away. The employees are nice enough but I don’t go there anymore because they never have items in stock. I’ve heard “ we can have later today”, or “ it will be here first thing in the morning” so many times I just quit going there. And this is simple stuff that I would think a parts store should have on hand like belts, spark plugs etc. I’m not making 2 trips for a total of 48 mile just to get a 10 dollar item.
So I usually just stop during my work day and get what I need or use Amazon.
Price is another issue. I stopped by local store to pick up a few things, I wanted some spray paint but not at $10 to $15 dollars a can. So I waited till I was by a Walmart $5 a can.

There is an o’Reilly’s near my office that still has pretty good service. I use them quite a bit as I’m coming or going from work. I’ve been in there enough that I see some little perks once in a while. Nothing big but things like free flash lights, calendars, or going behind the counter to look at parts, stuff like that. It reminds me of how thing used to be.

I love to support the local small businesses and even pay a little more to do it, but they have to be close to competitive and actually have what I need!

Dang it Eugen, now you’ve got me rambling!

Propane57 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:14 am That was great entertainment Eugen. Thanks. Just what I needed at 5:00 am while I had nothing better to do. Hehehe.

For the cover on the gear box. I would use a gasket. And I would use a very very thin layer of your favourite gasket maker. I like to use a gray silicone that ford uses on there Diesel engines.

I wouldn’t worry about bolting the engine down solid. The older Ford LGT garden tractors had the base of the engine welded to the frame from the factory. I really think it’s the better way. Just my opinion.

Noel

Somehow I missed your message. I don't have a gasket or I'd use one. As other reported that this ultra grey worked for them alone this is what I used. But, I'm a little worried it will cure too slowly in this cold weather. Some people (and the manual) say that's the case. Normally the instructions say to hand tighten the parts and after an hour torque to specs. I put a bead on the surface to be able to check later.



@JSinMO good ramble!

Could you have made gaskets Eugen. Just wondering.

Noel

I have a Car Quest 10 min. from me . Have been shopping there regularly for about 5 years now . They know me by name and if I needs belts,filter,spark plugs , batteries ect, I call in to see if they have in stock . If they don't have in stock they will order it in for me without deposit . I get garage pricing with out an account because I do have a small business and am a regular customer . I get good pricing , not always the best price . But I do get the best service you could ask for .

Propane57 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:07 am Could you have made gaskets Eugen. Just wondering.

Noel

Yes Noel, I've made my own gaskets in the past, but can't find big enough rubberized cork sheet. Just easier with this goo. You don't think it will hold and seal?

I guess I’m just on the fence about that. And I don’t want to fall of either way and hurt myself.
But , older stuff was built with gaskets. Newer stuff nowadays don’t use gaskets. Steel verses aluminum. ??
Any way. It may well seal it up, but my concern is, that where the gasket maker came out the sides of the cover plate, that you wanted to see, also does the same thing on the inside, where you don’t see. Those inside pieces could break off and get into your gears, bearings, which could cause trouble. Now, I am by no means an expert in this. I’m just going on the little I’ve seen and heard. But, I have seen in engines when they are takin apart pieces of silicone In the water side of the engine and oil side. Which could plug up passage ways. Now, again in my own defence, I am not an expert in this. Maybe if the proper sealant is used it won’t do that. I don’t know any thing about the new engines that don’t use gaskets and just rely on gasket maker products. They must have the proper stuff and there are no worries of the squeezed out gasket maker on the inside of engines and transmissions coming out and causing trouble.
I do know, that the gasket maker stuff that Ford has for there Diesel engines is good stuff. I know mechanic truck shops here buy that product from Ford for their work.

When we put my sons rambler engine together by the book and used what it said to use, we ended up with a leak at the rear crank seal with in a week. Had to remove the engine and repair it. We used the Ford stuff I mentioned to fix it. Never leaked again. That was a number of years ago.

There now, that’s my uneducated ramble on gaskets and gasket maker stuff.


Noel.

I am not at expert in any of this stuff, you are more expert than me Noel. Which Ford gasket maker specifically are you talking about? It would be good to know which one, for everyone's benefit. If you do a search on the web, people swear by one product or another. There are people who will only use Yamabond, others only Honda bond, you Ford bond, others Victor Reiner bond, others Ultra Grey, others The Right Stuff, others only Loctite, and so on.

I'm with you on the use of gaskets, I would have preferred it. When I looked for gasket material locally I couldn't find large sizes, but now I found it online. Oh well, next time, or if the goo doesn't hold, I'll make gaskets.

Now, how about some of that goo possibly falling in the gearbox? The reason I'm not worried about it here is because this oil doesn't go through any passages. It sits at the bottom of the gearbox and gets lifted on the gears as they turn. There is no pressure of any kind either. As far as I can tell this gasket's main task is to keep out water, dust, dirt, and to keep in the oil that may splash a little at higher speed or when the tractor is on enough of an incline.

But guys, don't do what I do, do things the right way. I'm just fooling around with this broken tractor! Maybe it will even work one day!

On with the program.

With subzero temps the Ultra Grey recommended wait of one hour before applying spec-ed torque become much longer. The instructions do not specify how long, just that if it's cold, wait longer. LOL nicely done Permatex. Now I have to use THE BRAIN? Fine. Check on it at noon today; the goo is still gooey, but no longer sticky to touch. THE BRAIN said to me go torque the dang bolts. I did. I will leave it in the rain once it's all fixed, and will regularly check the oil for water. If water gets in, no more goo; will make gaskets and wait for Noel to say "told you so"

Found larger size gasket material on amazon, will order it now because it's cheap and don't want to be caught without it every again. Noel, thanks for insisting on this, it made me think about it a little harder.

One thing is for sure Eugen. I would never say, I told you so.
Hehe. I was only suggesting and thinking out loud.
More out loud here. I would use gasket paper. Never was a fan of cork gaskets. For some reason. An automotive parts shop should have gasket paper.

Here are some the gasket and silicone products that ford uses. All seem to have different applications. I have no idea what the differences are. Not up on that stuff.
The one we used on the rambler engine and we have used it on other things too, is the Motorcraft TA 31. First two pictures. All expensive stuff. And the tube is about half the length of a normal caulking tube. It does fit the caulking guns.

More rambling.


Noel

Propane57 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:44 pm One thing is for sure Eugen. I would never say, I told you so.
Hehe. I was only suggesting and thinking out loud.
More out loud here. I would use gasket paper. Never was a fan of cork gaskets. For some reason. An automotive parts shop should have gasket paper.

Here are some the gasket and silicone products that ford uses. All seem to have different applications. I have no idea what the differences are. Not up on that stuff.
The one we used on the rambler engine and we have used it on other things too, is the Motorcraft TA 31. First two pictures. All expensive stuff. And the tube is about half the length of a normal caulking tube. It does fit the caulking guns.

More rambling.


Noel

Good ramble, thank you! But, why not a fan of cork gaskets?

Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:51 pm

Propane57 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:44 pm One thing is for sure Eugen. I would never say, I told you so.
Hehe. I was only suggesting and thinking out loud.
More out loud here. I would use gasket paper. Never was a fan of cork gaskets. For some reason. An automotive parts shop should have gasket paper.

Here are some the gasket and silicone products that ford uses. All seem to have different applications. I have no idea what the differences are. Not up on that stuff.
The one we used on the rambler engine and we have used it on other things too, is the Motorcraft TA 31. First two pictures. All expensive stuff. And the tube is about half the length of a normal caulking tube. It does fit the caulking guns.

More rambling.


Noel

Good ramble, thank you! But, why not a fan of cork gaskets?

Messy to clean up if you have to change them for what ever reason.


Noel

Noel! Don't look!

Hehe. Don’t look Ethel.

Noel

Today I finished early, didn't do much. This engine came with a missing points cover, choke cable bracket, and air filter assembly. The seller said he never got them from the previous owner. I really don't like taking parts out of a complete engine, but I had to, at least temporarily. Got them out of the seized k321 from Al. Spent some time on the wire bench grinder wheel and with the drill wire wheel. I don't enjoy too much doing this, I'm lazy. But I like the result.


Ignored the paint spray instructions about temperature again and put a coat of paint on all parts. Breaking the rules is fun sometimes.



The threaded hole where the choke cable bracket mounts, on the engine, was damaged. Just as I tried going to the next size bolt, 5/16-18, the 17/64 drill bit broke in the hole. Took some time to wrestle the broken bit out, but after that it went smoothly, tap new threads and ready for the bolt and bracket.

ok you guys, I kinda feel guilty for spray painting these parts and leaving them in the cold so I turned on the diesel stove in the shed. I'll create a separate thread about the heater, but, spoiler alert, I like it!

Look pretty, even if it is cold! Looking forward to how that heater did.

Thank you Jeff, it's definitely better than all rusty. I wish I had taken a picture of it before. I don't recommend others do it, but it sure surprised me how nice it turned out for a quick spray job at freezing temps.

Ok, on with the journey. Ran out of steam a little. Lack of sleep, trips to Toronto, and two toddlers got the better of me. All is good though, needed to wait for some parts too. Had to get a new ignition switch, the old one came without the key. And a new solenoid, none came with the tractor.
Also spent a little time cleaning the mechanical voltage regulator contacts and other small stuff with the wheel brush. It's pretty tedious but nice to see the rust gone.

One thing still needed is a couple stiff rubber bands, about 2x0.5x0.25 inches to replace the flexible mount of the regulator, as the old rubber has gone bad. Maybe I'll cut some old car tire.

Some times Eugen. The more you fuss with some thing your going to paint, the worst it looks. I know.


Noel

oh

Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:18 pm

One thing still needed is a couple stiff rubber bands, about 2x0.5x0.25 inches to replace the flexible mount of the regulator, as the old rubber has gone bad. Maybe I'll cut some old car tire.

Any progress is good progress!

Would garden hose seals work on the regulator? Not sure if dimensions are close enough, but might be easier than cutting some.

That's not the shape, sorry I should have posted a pic. Here's the original.

An old, bald, motorcycle tire is just the right thickness and very tough rubber. Some elbow grease required to cut a piece.



This is where it goes. Tried to make rivets out of some copper wire.


was shocked I don't have a riveting tool. She said Santa might bring me one if I behave.

Santa came early

Having trouble finding a #20 buna-n o-ring 7/8 ID 1/16 thickness for the inlet hydraulic pump fitting. Any suggestions?

@FUTZ should be able to help.

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:55 pm Having trouble finding a #20 buna-n o-ring 7/8 ID 1/16 thickness for the inlet hydraulic pump fitting. Any suggestions?

Round or square cross section ?

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:05 pm

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:55 pm Having trouble finding a #20 buna-n o-ring 7/8 ID 1/16 thickness for the inlet hydraulic pump fitting. Any suggestions?

Round or square cross section ?

It would be round good sir. Like the wheels of the bus!

It's good with rivets. Nice to have the right tool.

https://www.amazon.ca/020-Buna-N-Ring-D ... B000FMYOXW
This comes with a few extra in Case you need a spare or two. Or you have freinds to share with .

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:19 pm https://www.amazon.ca/020-Buna-N-Ring-D ... B000FMYOXW
This comes with a few extra in Case you need a spare or two. Or you have freinds to share with .

I've seen those Dave, but I don't know if 70A durometer is too hard. Also, pack of 100!

Last night I decided to make a move on to loader arms. At some point I was wondering whether I should use just two shorter rods, on account of having reinforced the tower with 0.25" plate, but gave up on that idea and used full length rod across the entire width.

So I cut the rod and drilled it for spiral pins.

I was happy to see that the reinforcement plates and tube I welded were true enough as to allow the rod to go through easily. Applied good grease liberally on all inner surfaces.


Pay no attention to the looks of the paint. That's something planned for next summer, first I want to see it functional.

Took advice from you guys and warmed up the rattle cans and plate that I wanted to paint, using the diesel heater in the shed. Then went outside, sprayed the part and hung it inside. Dried up real fast so it was easy to put two coats.

Looks good Eugen. Any way to drill, tap and put grease nipples in there on both sides ?

Noel

propane1 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 7:29 pm Looks good Eugen. Any way to drill, tap and put grease nipples in there on both sides ?

Noel

Good idea Noel, but this tube has a zerk on the other side, from factory. How to make the rod not turn, maybe a bead of weld. If the rod doesn't turn then the only parts that move against each other are the arms of the loader around the rod, where the zerk is.

Oh ok. Didn’t know. Good to keep er lubed up.

Noel

I’d call that a milestone, towers done and arms on!

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 7:47 pm

propane1 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 7:29 pm Looks good Eugen. Any way to drill, tap and put grease nipples in there on both sides ?

Noel

Good idea Noel, but this tube has a zerk on the other side, from factory. How to make the rod not turn, maybe a bead of weld. If the rod doesn't turn then the only parts that move against each other are the arms of the loader around the rod, where the zerk is.

Make up or find something like this to clamp to the rod inside the tower so that it is up against the tower and keeps the rod from turning .

That's the idea Dave, thanks! As I don't want to drill the rod and weaken it. I'll come up with a thingamagig like that.

Yes @JSinMO , it does feel like a little milestone here. Like you say, any step forward is progress.

Last night I was able to further the project somewhat. New 1" hose from the tank to the pump, and 3/4" in and out of the cooler.

Strap of eva foam under the tank. All hydraulics cleaned and connected again. Mock up pins for the bucket cylinder (this need more work). New oil in the engine and in the hydraulic tank.
Still missing: all electrical, battery holder, pins and bushings for the various loader joints, exhaust pipe for the engine, fix up bucket, gas tank and fenders mounting...

But to turn it on all I need is the electrical in place, so I can chase hydro leaks and see if this engine state, good or bust.

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:17 am

Still missing: all electrical, battery holder, pins and bushings for the various loader joints, exhaust pipe for the engine, fix up bucket, gas tank and fenders mounting...

But to turn it on all I need is the electrical in place, so I can chase hydro leaks and see if this engine state, good or bust.

It that all? What are you gonna do after lunch?

Hope that engine is a good one!

Eugen, your making GREAT progress. I’m enjoying your project thread!

It's looking Great @Eugen !

Thanks guys! @JSinMO , I wish I was that fast, but no. For some reason the electrical is going quite slow. I'm making fresh wires and connectors all around. The freezing temps aren't helping either, the wires are stiff, fingers are numb lol. On the plus side, it's not windy. had to quit though earlier tonight, I got too cold.

Nice looking job there Eugen. But I don’t know how you work out in the cold. Jumpins I couldn’t do that.

Noel

Question about the ignition switch Eugen. Is it a 3 position or 4 position switch. Off, run, start. Or off, run and accessories, run, start. ?

Noel

propane1 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 6:11 am Question about the ignition switch Eugen. Is it a 3 position or 4 position switch. Off, run, start. Or off, run and accessories, run, start. ?

Noel

Four. But the order is Accessories Off Start Run

From off you can go one to the left.

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:59 pm Thanks guys! @JSinMO , I wish I was that fast, but no. For some reason the electrical is going quite slow. I'm making fresh wires and connectors all around. The freezing temps aren't helping either, the wires are stiff, fingers are numb lol. On the plus side, it's not windy. had to quit though earlier tonight, I got too cold.

FD077456-7D74-4F6B-BF2D-CB2EC5A6583B.jpeg

I hear you, working in the cold makes everything go slower. But like you said at least it wasn’t windy I’d say you’re making good progress even with frozen fingers! I want to continue on my outdoor projects but I’m struggling to find the motivation in cold weather. I’ve been kicking around the idea of a makeshift tent with a heater in it for stuff I have to do outdoors. How is your new heater working out?

It works nicely, but the tent is too big for it. Waiting for a longer exhaust tube, the one that came with it is too short at 2 feet. Want to run it in the tool shed. Everything tends to start rusting in that shed, hoping to improve that with some occasional heat. Whoever built the shed did not put any vapour barrier under the cement slab so I think a lot of humidity comes up from the floor.

Eugen wrote:It works nicely, but the tent is too big for it. Waiting for a longer exhaust tube, the one that came with it is too short at 2 feet. Want to run it in the tool shed. Everything tends to start rusting in that shed, hoping to improve that with some occasional heat. Whoever built the shed did not put any vapour barrier under the cement slab so I think a lot of humidity comes up from the floor.

Well that sounds like the new loaders first big job this spring. To scrape out all the gravel and put a vapor barrier down. Lol

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Jancoe wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:18 pm Well that sounds like the new loaders first big job this spring. To scrape out all the gravel and put a vapor barrier down. Lol

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

wish it was that easy Evan. But it's the small tool shed that's got no vapor barrier, and under 4 inches of concrete floor. It's the concrete that's letting humidity up in the shed.

The tent has both vapor barrier and a tarp, on top of which there is gravel. But there is theft around here , so all tools go back to the locked and alarm equipped shed. They already broke into the shed once and stole tools.

Eugen wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:17 pm

Jancoe wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:18 pm Well that sounds like the new loaders first big job this spring. To scrape out all the gravel and put a vapor barrier down. Lol

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

wish it was that easy Evan. But it's the small tool shed that's got no vapor barrier, and under 4 inches of concrete floor. It's the concrete that's letting humidity up in the shed.

The tent has both vapor barrier and a tarp, on top of which there is gravel. But there is theft around here , so all tools go back to the locked and alarm equipped shed. They already broke into the shed once and stole tools.

I have no experience with this but I’m wondering if some type of concrete sealer would help your moisture problem? Is the floor sweating?

I’m sorry you had to deal with theft. It unfortunately happens everywhere. My wife thwarted two robbery attempts over the years. Once when we lived in town and once since we’ve been out here. She can think fast when she needs to! we did loose a couple of items but could have been worse. After the second time the sheriff let us know they were arrested and went to prison on a lot of charges.

My son asked me a few years ago why I lock everything up, even lock cars inside of locked buildings. I told him if somebody wants to get in they will get in, but we’re not rolling out the red carpet for them. They’re gonna have to work for it!

Well there’s a crime ramble for you!

Eugen wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:17 pm

Jancoe wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:18 pm Well that sounds like the new loaders first big job this spring. To scrape out all the gravel and put a vapor barrier down. Lol

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

wish it was that easy Evan. But it's the small tool shed that's got no vapor barrier, and under 4 inches of concrete floor. It's the concrete that's letting humidity up in the shed.

The tent has both vapor barrier and a tarp, on top of which there is gravel. But there is theft around here , so all tools go back to the locked and alarm equipped shed. They already broke into the shed once and stole tools.

There are concrete sealers that can be applied but need to be applied when warm out . That will help , but lack of ventilation is your biggest problem . The moister warms up during the day then condensate at night . The thing with concrete is that it is porress and will suck up moister from the ground which you have alot of there . Concrete is also bad for absorbing oil which can reduce the moister movement . But because that area is so damp moister in the air is alway going to be problem . So that brings us back to ventilation . A black stack vent like what is put on houses now is your best option . Accidentally sealing the floor and a tall roof vent will help .

@JSinMO whatever's made of steel and sits right on the concrete is usually wet/sweaty. Probably concrete sealer would help, but have been swamped this summer and could never find the time to empty the shed and do it. It would take a lot of work to empty it, it's full. I just installed a vent this Fall, as I suspected what Dave said. It seems to be a universal truth that water, cold, and thieves always try to get in.

Anywho, I was gone yesterday all day, to Toronto, and beat at night, no work on the 644. Funny, I jumped in the truck yesterday morning and within 20 seconds two new lights showed up on the board. A triangle with an exclamation sign and the letters VSA. And the truck pulls hard to the right, so to go straight I got to keep the steering wheel left 30 degrees. Oooh aaah! No way I was going back, so I quickly googled the VSA, turns out the front wheel must be out of alignment after replacing the outer tie end. I thought I measured the distance from the tie end to a fixed point, but apparently that measurement wasn't good enough, and I didn't bother to even try to check the alignment. Mental note to be more careful next time. But I drove carefully for 300 plus kilometers and got home safe. Will do the toe alignment probably tomorrow. It never ends, I tell you.

I have issues in my old farm buildings, we're high and dry sand country. They're vented well but not insulated. I have to really keep an eye on the metal stuff and keep oiled, like table saw, jointer, and bandsaw. Sweating from temperature change mainly.

Timj wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:32 am I have issues in my old farm buildings, we're high and dry sand country. They're vented well but not insulated. I have to really keep an eye on the metal stuff and keep oiled, like table saw, jointer, and bandsaw. Sweating from temperature change mainly.

Thanks Tim, it's good to know that some of this is normal and to be expected. Our place here is swampy and damp like crazy. So, more to be expected. The more sensitive tools like micrometers stay in the house, but there's still a lot in the shed that I'd like to keep from rusting. In the summer I'll run a dehumidifier. Now I'll run the heater from time to time.

Timj wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:32 am I have issues in my old farm buildings, we're high and dry sand country. They're vented well but not insulated. I have to really keep an eye on the metal stuff and keep oiled, like table saw, jointer, and bandsaw. Sweating from temperature change mainly.

Same with my old barn, plenty of ventilation (too much), on a hot humid day the concrete can have 1/16" standing water on it. Just from condensation.


Gordy

The basket case 644 is alive! No leaks, all hydraulics seem to work. Still 100 things to do on it but it feels good to hear it thump.

https://vimeo.com/781712443

That’s a great step head Eugen.

Noel

That Kohler seam to run ok . How doe it seam for smoke and power ? Do you think it is still in good shape ?

Like you say Dave, seems in ok shape, no smoke. No idea of power, just turned it on for a short time.

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 8:08 am Like you say Dave, seems in ok shape, no smoke. No idea of power, just turned it on for a short time.

Starts , runs and no smoke is a great start.

Great news @Eugen! Having it running is a great step forward!

I hope it’s smooth sailing from here!

Couldn't work much on this tractor in the last few days. Had plans to install the gas tank today but... can't find the box with all the bolts I took off when removing the fenders and front and rear plates around the tank. I have this bad habit to put things that I work on "near by" because usually I get to them in a day or two. This is definitely the end of this habit. From now on I'll put all bolts in a box and will label it. Looked in all the places where I'd likely put them, nothing. Hopefully I won't find them with the snowblower. Well, may as well get new bolts. But I am quite upset at myself over this.

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:24 pm Couldn't work much on this tractor in the last few days. Had plans to install the gas tank today but... can't find the box with all the bolts I took off when removing the fenders and front and rear plates around the tank. I have this bad habit to put things that I work on "near by" because usually I get to them in a day or two. This is definitely the end of this habit. From now on I'll put all bolts in a box and will label it. Looked in all the places where I'd likely put them, nothing. Hopefully I won't find them with the snowblower. Well, may as well get new bolts. But I am quite upset at myself over this.

I save all my old margarine and coffee containers , after cleaning they go on a shelf in the shop . when I take something apart , I put the bits and bobs in the container and keep them all together with the rest of the parts . Many small container allows me to the bits with its own bob . This reduces what I have to remember or have to think about what goes with what or where .

@Eugen If ever you have a screw loose or just missing one , come over and raid my stash (you will be in good company) .

Eugen, I also suffer too. What I started to do is put nuts and bolts in ziplock bags and label them with a sharpie marker. Toss all the baggies in a cardboard box and now they are all in one spot. I still have a problem with where I set stuff. It's a problem we have to live with but this helps.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:19 pm

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:24 pm Couldn't work much on this tractor in the last few days. Had plans to install the gas tank today but... can't find the box with all the bolts I took off when removing the fenders and front and rear plates around the tank. I have this bad habit to put things that I work on "near by" because usually I get to them in a day or two. This is definitely the end of this habit. From now on I'll put all bolts in a box and will label it. Looked in all the places where I'd likely put them, nothing. Hopefully I won't find them with the snowblower. Well, may as well get new bolts. But I am quite upset at myself over this.

I save all my old margarine and coffee containers , after cleaning they go on a shelf in the shop . when I take something apart , I put the bits and bobs in the container and keep them all together with the rest of the parts . Many small container allows me to the bits with its own bob . This reduces what I have to remember or have to think about what goes with what or where .

I reuse containers for the nuts and bolts too. But prefer the clear ones from the Walmart deli, they are smaller and most often big enough, but clear is the big plus you can see what's in them without opening each one


Gordy

Found 4 out of 6 bolts. That's a rate of 67% success. Have to do better in the future. Had some bolts of the same size from some big Case IH combine as well, so the plates and tank were mounted. New fuel line of course.

Then I wrestles the old exhaust made of 1" NPT iron pipe pieces, was able to undo an elbow and another piece so I could temporarily mount it on the k321 engine. It was pretty well rusted and stuck threads so not the greatest fun doing it with a 10" pipe wrench and a mallet. Definitely hope Santa brings me a big pipe wrench.

Ran the engine for a bit, moved the loader up and down. The lift cylinders were really sad and started weeping. Which made me a little sad and almost cried but then I kinda expected to have to replace the seals on them. @Spike188 can you please share what tool you used to undo the gland on yours, and where you got seal kits, if you did?

Then one of the fenders had a bolt broken in and I dealt with that for a while. Also chased the rest of the threads with a tap to make it easier to assemble. Enough for today.

@Eugen I will post a ramble later. The cylinder end cap was held in place by a snap ring. Over time the ring groove hammers a protruding lip on the outer edge of the groove. The end cap can be pushed deeper into the cylinder so that a drimel may be used to remove the lip. With raised lip smoothed out, rremoving the end cap was easy.

Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:21 am Found 4 out of 6 bolts. That's a rate of 67% success. Have to do better in the future. Had some bolts of the same size from some big Case IH combine as well, so the plates and tank were mounted. New fuel line of course.

Then I wrestles the old exhaust made of 1" NPT iron pipe pieces, was able to undo an elbow and another piece so I could temporarily mount it on the k321 engine. It was pretty well rusted and stuck threads so not the greatest fun doing it with a 10" pipe wrench and a mallet. Definitely hope Santa brings me a big pipe wrench.

Ran the engine for a bit, moved the loader up and down. The lift cylinders were really sad and started weeping. Which made me a little sad and almost cried but then I kinda expected to have to replace the seals on them. @Spike188 can you please share what tool you used to undo the gland on yours, and where you got seal kits, if you did?

Then one of the fenders had a bolt broken in and I dealt with that for a while. Also chases the rest of the threads with a tap to make it easier to assemble. Enough for today.

The older you get, the more hardware you're going to lose.

So they tell me, anyway....

Bob

thebuildist wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 10:31 am

Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:21 am Found 4 out of 6 bolts. That's a rate of 67% success. Have to do better in the future. Had some bolts of the same size from some big Case IH combine as well, so the plates and tank were mounted. New fuel line of course.

Then I wrestles the old exhaust made of 1" NPT iron pipe pieces, was able to undo an elbow and another piece so I could temporarily mount it on the k321 engine. It was pretty well rusted and stuck threads so not the greatest fun doing it with a 10" pipe wrench and a mallet. Definitely hope Santa brings me a big pipe wrench.

Ran the engine for a bit, moved the loader up and down. The lift cylinders were really sad and started weeping. Which made me a little sad and almost cried but then I kinda expected to have to replace the seals on them. @Spike188 can you please share what tool you used to undo the gland on yours, and where you got seal kits, if you did?

Then one of the fenders had a bolt broken in and I dealt with that for a while. Also chases the rest of the threads with a tap to make it easier to assemble. Enough for today.

The older you get, the more hardware you're going to lose.

So they tell me, anyway....

Bob

Just like socks and driers . I swear there is another dimension that has all the missing socks nut bolts and reading glasses .

Tell me about it. I got a really nice broken bolt extractor set that I looked for last night and wasn't where it should've been. No idea what I might have done with it. That was frustrating. I guess I've lost some marbles already.

Spike188 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:52 am @Eugen I will post a ramble later. The cylinder end cap was held in place by a snap ring. Over time the ring groove hammers a protruding lip on the outer edge of the groove. The end cap can be pushed deeper into the cylinder so that a drimel may be used to remove the lip. With raised lip smoothed out, rremoving the end cap was easy.

Thank you!

Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 1:32 pm Tell me about it. I got a really nice broken bolt extractor set that I looked for last night and wasn't where it should've been. No idea what I might have done with it. That was frustrating. I guess I've lost some marbles already.

Marbles are kept with the missing sock in that other dimension.

The engine came with a stack exhaust made of 1" iron pipe so I chose to stay with it but route it under the tractor towards the back.



https://vimeo.com/783764692





Then I took it for a spin. I can honestly say now it runs and drives.

@Eugen Now you need one of these to keep up with the youngins.

Those Dave, were called fart cans around here. Hehe.

Noel

Eugen, you could have put a tee in there and ran duels out the back. Hehe.

Noel

good progress @Eugen

propane1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:59 pm Those Dave, were called fart cans around here. Hehe.

Noel

Around here too . First thing I thought of when I saw the exh. going under the way like it is . Eugen is young at heart and is a good sport .

@Eugen that will work good and keep the noise down .How far back does it go ? Are you planning to put the back hoe on this loader ?

Those fart cans are too expensive for me guys.

@DavidBarkey right now the end of the muffler reaches the axle. I'm a little worried putting the backhoe on this tractor, the rear axle are not webbed like the 600 that's factory equipped with a backhoe. It'd be nice to get that tracked device fixed.

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Dec 23, 2022 9:43 am Those fart cans are too expensive for me guys.

@DavidBarkey right now the end of the muffler reaches the axle. I'm a little worried putting the backhoe on this tractor, the rear axle are not webbed like the 600 that's factory equipped with a backhoe. It'd be nice to get that tracked device fixed.

On that note I have a Onan NHC that I need to fix the valve seat in . Still undecided what if anything I am going to put it in . May want to extend that out and away from the driver . Heat and fume rise . But don't take my word for it , fart in the seat .

Dave, the running 644 I got has the muffler going like that under and toward the back. I find it better than in front as I really dislike the smell of exhaust.

Last night, unplanned, took a look at the lift cylinder that leaks more heavily. Disassembly was a bit of an IQ test. There are two retaining rings, flat and coiled like a flattened piece of spring. Not knowing about them made it tough to figure it out, hard to see what's there.


Once the retaining rings were out, the rod and gland came out but got stuck at the end. Was not sure if there was another thing holding it there by design or just stuck.

After some pondering and a few bangs it came out.

The piston is made of aluminum and it's got fairly heavy scratches.


The piston nut takes a 7/8 socket and was easy to undo with a 1/2 inch drive 18" long breaker bar.

It wasn't obvious to me but the piston is threaded on too. Don't use a puller like I tried before I clued in. Luckily I didn't damage it. After heating it up with the propane torch the piston unscrewed by hand.

All is apart now.

Interesting the use of the bronze bushing there.


On to sourcing a seal kit. It would be nice to not pay nearly $100 per kit though.

@Eugen
The bronze bushing in the head gland is to keep the rod from being damage / worn do to the wieght and impact jarring when in use those cylinder are not lite .
The nut on the rod end is lock nut , Make sure loctite just same .
Try Sunnyside Hyd. , They may have them in stock . Take the piston and gland with you . By the size of that grove in the piston I would say it most likely is suppose to have backers on each side of the o ring . Are you able to cross referance those cylinders to a parts diagram ?
That scoring is no big deal on the piston , Just csmoth it out , debur and make sure there is no marks in the bore or rod and you are fine .
Like Spike mentioned check and remove any bur at the top of the cylinder tube that might nick the seals going together . Other than that the worst part is done , you got it apart that alone can be a night mare some times .

Like Dave said, take the gland, cylinder end cap, old rubber and wear rings to a hydraulic rebuilder/supplier. They will likely have everything in stock. For around $200 all 7 cylinders and corresponding valve body o-rings, wear rings, and cup seals were replaced on my 646bh.

Eugen. Over on the other site I remembered Lionel posted about www.grizzlyseals.com. They are making seal kits for our loaders. Places in US and Canada. I'd give them a call and see what they could do for you.

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Thank you guys! This is helpful. The o-rings I measured and are standard sizes: dash 113, 214, 224, and 326. Missing were the backup washers, like you said Dave, and one wiper seal. The one wiper seal nearest the outside of the gland was crumbly.

What's not clear to me right now is why the bronze bushing is sticking out about 1/8 and where the missing wiper seal goes, before or after the interior o-ring. Maybe it doesn't matter..

There's a posting on mtf, probably by Lionel, about grizzlyseals.com

Steering cylinder- JIC-648 steering kit. (Oring/seals/wipers rebuild kit for steering cylinder)

Bucket cylinder JIC-18574. Loader cylinder JIC-41499

Price wise, you'll be quite pleased!

For 644's, 646's & 648's serial numbers, (648 prior to 14076828)

I'll give these guys a call.

@Spike188 and @DavidBarkey after my last experience with the local shop near me I prefer to go elsewhere.

@Eugen if you don’t mind would you let us know what you find out and what pricing is like? If they are good to deal with I’ll probably be calling them too!

I’ve never purchased seals from Grizzly before. For my front loader cylinders on the644 and the 646 I used Barneveld Imp. I called Grizzly when I was looking for seals for my backhoe cylinders. They couldn’t help me. So I ended up going to a local hydraulic shop and sourced the seals from them at a very reasonable price. I think if I was looking for seals again I would go back to the local shop before ordering and waiting for them to be delivered. Harry

@JSinMO yes, of course.

Called grizzly, offices closed, hibernating.

Disassembled the second cylinder which gave some clues how things should be. Like no protruding bronze bushing and order of wiper seals inside the gland. Heated it up and put snow inside the bushing, then pressed it in. Used the adjustable reamer to bring it back to size as it no longer slid on the rod.

Also, in case you're wondering why I write as detailed as I can is in hope that it will save effort and grief to someone who will need to do this in the future.

You found the o-ring sizes, how go to this web-site https://herculesca.ca/product.php?name= ... &cat=15606 and determine your wiper size. I can get all seals for both cylinders for <$50.00. What size o-rings need backups?

Thank you @FUTZ! The -326 needs backing on both sides. It's 1-5/8 ID, 2 OD and 3/16 CS. I can use wiper seals there too or the backing rings are special?

The job of the back-up ring is to stop the O-ring from extruding. O-ring extrusion is when the pressure pushes the o-ring into the small gap between the piston and the cylinder wall. The purpose of the wiper is to stop foreign material entering the cylinder when the rod retracts. It is not a seal, but instead "wipes" the rod. There are other devises, such as Polypaks that look a little like a wiper, but are seals. Polypaks have a blade that wipes the cylinder wall clean, are considered zero leakage, and don't require a backup, but the size of the piston groove must be appropriate for the seal used.

I need to know the dimensions of the wiper groove. Your wiper is cracked/broken.
download/file.php?id=6974&mode=view

FUTZ wrote: ↑Wed Dec 28, 2022 9:58 am The job of the back-up ring is to stop the O-ring from extruding. O-ring extrusion is when the pressure pushes the o-ring into the small gap between the piston and the cylinder wall. The purpose of the wiper is to stop foreign material entering the cylinder when the rod retracts. It is not a seal, but instead "wipes" the rod. There are other devises, such as Polypaks that look a little like a wiper, but are seals. Polypaks have a blade that wipes the cylinder wall clean, are considered zero leakage, and don't require a backup, but the size of the piston groove must be appropriate for the seal used.

I need to know the dimensions of the wiper groove. Your wiper is cracked/broken.
download/file.php?id=6974&mode=view

Best I could measure the groove by making a playdoh mold is 0.1 width and 0.115 height.

I'll try to measure the broken wiper seal. Here it is, best I could measure it. Probably somewhat worn out though.

The width of the groove on the piston, where the backing rings should be is 0.41

I'll browse the Hercules site see if I could make sense of what they have.

I'm slowly finding parts on the hercules site. @FUTZ quick question: 70 durometer o-rings ok for this cylinder? I've searched on google and I found mentions that 70D is most likely fine, but could not find a clear confirmation it would be the best choice for the piston, for instance. Not sure if I should choose the 90D o-ring.

There are two things that slightly confuse me about the piston o-ring. The piston groove width is about 0.41 inches, and 1.625 diameter. As far as I can measure, the only standard size o-ring that would fit there the dash 326 which has nominal ID 1-5/8, and nominal cross section 3/16. The actual cross section is listed as 0.210 +/- 0.005. So, if the groove is 1.625, plus twice the actual cross section would give 1.625 + 2 x 0.210 = 2.045. If the cylinder tube inner diameter is 2 inches, is 0.045 enough squeeze to provide the necessary seal at such pressures? I could not find a standard o-ring size that is a tiny bit bigger.

Also, the backup rings are a little confusing re dimensions. If the groove width is, as far as I can measure, 0.41", and the o-ring actual cross section 0.21", then we're left with 0.2" space. I'm assuming one backup ring on each side of the o-ring, each in a space of approximately 0.1". Does it make sense to look for a backup ring that is slightly larger than 0.1" so that the o-ring is a little squeezed from the sides?

Well, I guess I might have just answered my own question, regarding the backup rings. Duh, I see the part number of backup rings near the size I thought would make sense are like "575-326" so, I'm thinking it's not a coincidence that the o-ring size that should fit there is dash 326.

But, there are several types of backup rings:
576-326 split nylon
573-326 55D HYTREL
574-326 90A BUNA-N RUBBER
575-326 95A DUROMETER URETHANE
575-326ST PTFE split
575-326T PTFE solid

If I knew nothing about this I guess I'd choose the 95A durometer urethane or the 90A buna-n rubber. Any opinions?

So I got really excited having found all the parts to overhaul the cylinders on the herculesca.ca site.

was ready to place an order, and then... they seem to only sell to businesses, they ask for a purchase order.

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 28, 2022 6:09 pm So I got really excited having found all the parts to overhaul the cylinders on the herculesca.ca site.

Screenshot 2022-12-28 at 18.08.21.png


was ready to place an order, and then... they seem to only sell to businesses, they ask for a purchase order.

You can order through Rush Hydralics in Midhurst and pick them up your self in Barrie . I have done that in the past .
It is a pain .

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 6:19 am You can order through Rush Hydralics in Midhurst and pick them up your self in Barrie . I have done that in the past .
It is a pain .

Thanks Dave! Pretty frustrating to find all the parts I need at a great price, just can't buy them directly. I'll figure something out. I wonder about the people that bought Grizzly, as they also seem to sell only to businesses. Probably through a local shop as well. I'll figure something out. In the end, the little guy may just swallow the bitter pill and pay more and get it through someone else. It is what it is.

Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 10:31 am

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 6:19 am You can order through Rush Hydralics in Midhurst and pick them up your self in Barrie . I have done that in the past .
It is a pain .

Thanks Dave! Pretty frustrating to find all the parts I need at a great price, just can't buy them directly. I'll figure something out. I wonder about the people that bought Grizzly, as they also seem to sell only to businesses. Probably through a local shop as well. I'll figure something out. In the end, the little guy may just swallow the bitter pill and pay more and get it through someone else. It is what it is.

Is there a farm / equipment repair service up there you can buy through ? Maybe a mobile guy .

Sometimes the little guy just gets a break. Called Hercules, turns out it's just a glitch in the online ordering system, anyone can buy with a credit card, but now it only allows businesses with PO. Until it gets fixed one can place order over the phone. Yay!

Now I'm fighting the bucket cylinder which has the retaining ring all broken inside, rusty and apparently impossible to get out. If I do them I may as well do them all. Once I get the parts and confirm proper fit I will post all the parts numbers needed to redo all the cylinders.

This was a nasty one.

Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 11:26 am Sometimes the little guy just gets a break. Called Hercules, turns out it's just a glitch in the online ordering system, anyone can buy with a credit card, but now it only allows businesses with PO. Until it gets fixed one can place order over the phone. Yay!

Now I'm fighting the bucket cylinder which has the retaining ring all broken inside, rusty and apparently impossible to get out. If I do them I may as well do them all. Once I get the parts and confirm proper fit I will post all the parts numbers needed to redo all the cylinders.

Thats good to know we can do that now .

Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 1:57 pm This was a nasty one.


DD5418A4-8A01-4573-A865-38D48AA992FE.jpeg
09975885-E20F-45D7-AED7-1734A1829E4A.jpeg
AC90E3D7-7531-47CE-9DD7-47CA742E3667.jpeg

That looks like a whole lotta fun right there. Is that the reason for the weird rants last night

Timj wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 3:26 pm That looks like a whole lotta fun right there. Is that the reason for the weird rants last night

That's it Tim!

Eugen, have you ordered seals. I would have ordered for you as we have an account.

I think 90 durometer would be fine. 70 durometer would likely give you 20 years of service, 90, a little more. Then you get the joy of taking them apart again. Never used 95 urethane.

FUTZ wrote: ↑Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:27 am Eugen, have you ordered seals. I would have ordered for you as we have an account.

I think 90 durometer would be fine. 70 durometer would likely give you 20 years of service, 90, a little more. Then you get the joy of taking them apart again. Never used 95 urethane.

Thank you, but I don't want to trouble you with this. I am still working on making sure I'm ordering the right parts. Measuring things again and again.

On the subject of hardness, from what I've been reading, 70D for o-rings is pretty standard in normal applications. The wipers are normally urethane it seems. I'm inclined to stay with standard. 20 years seems like so far in the future.

One question though. The original kit from Case has two wiper seals and an o-ring on the inner side of the head/gland. The wiper closer to the end of the cylinder is oriented with the "lip" towards the outside, fine. The other wiper has the lip towards the other end of the cylinder. When I opened the bucket cylinder I found instead of the wiper+o-ring a u-seal+ o-ring. From what I've been reading, a u-seal or u-seal+o-ring is superior to a wiper+o-ring. The cost difference is not much, just a few dollars. Should I stay with wiper+o-ring or use u-seal in this position? What do you think?

What are dimensions of groove? ID, OD and width?

For the lift cylinder head here are the dimensions of the groove:
A = 1
B = 1/4
C = 1/8


For the bucket cylinder head here are the dimensions of the groove:
A = 1-1/4
B = 5/16
C = 3/16

To answer exactly what you asked, for the lift cylinder head: groove ID = 1", groove OD = 1.25", groove width = 0.25"
For the bucket cylinder head: groove ID = 1.25", groove OD = 1.625", groove width = 0.3125"

These are the two u-seals I think fit here exactly well per these dimensions:
lift https://herculesca.ca/product.php?pid=2 ... 1.000-250B
bucket https://herculesca.ca/product.php?pid=2 ... 1.250-312B

by the way @FUTZ I cannot thank you enough for pointing me to the Hercules site, I find it amazing.

Here's the list of parts from Hercules for diy seal kit to rebuild the lift cylinder(s) and bucket cylinder. As far as I can tell the part numbers are exactly the same on both the Canadian and USA Hercules site. For reference,

USA https://herculesus.com
Canada https://herculesca.ca

The pdf file is here and I will update it if anything needs to change. I cannot guarantee the accuracy of this list until I rebuild my cylinders, but perhaps it's still useful to people.

Well, the more I think about it, the more I think I'll go with the u-cup seal instead of the original wiper plus o-ring. It's a little more expensive but should provide a stronger seal for a longer time, I think. There are two u-cup type seals I have identified to fit properly, one is loaded itself with an o-ring, the other is a simple u-cup seal. Difference in price is less than two dollars, but still I think the o-ring loaded u-cup seal is probably overkill for this application.

Guys, how would you fix this poor out of round and stretched rod end?

Either ream and press fit a bronze bushing or cut the rod end off and replace.

Spike188 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:25 pm Either ream and press fit a bronze bushing or cut the rod end off and replace.

Thank you! The bushing seems a little more fit for my skills.

How much out of round is it ? How wide is it ? What is the pin size?

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Sat Dec 31, 2022 6:45 am How much out of round is it ? How wide is it ? What is the pin size?

Oh sorry, forgot to give those details. It's a 3/4" pin, about 1.5" wide, and 1/4" thick the wall of the tube. When the pin is inside it has free play in all directions, as much as 3/42 on one side, so the hole is stretched too, not only out of round.

Eugen wrote: ↑Sat Dec 31, 2022 8:33 am

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Sat Dec 31, 2022 6:45 am How much out of round is it ? How wide is it ? What is the pin size?

Oh sorry, forgot to give those details. It's a 3/4" pin, about 1.5" wide, and 1/4" thick the wall of the tube. When the pin is inside it has free play in all directions, as much as 3/42 on one side, so the hole is stretched too, not only out of round.

I have a boring head for the mill to true it up . But I would lay beads of weld around it first . That will add material for what you will be removing and help shrink the bore . Grab 3/4" ID - 7/8" OD oil light bronze bushings from PA . I have a lot of old tubing to cover the shaft while welding if you need .

The backhoe on my 6018 has seen alot of use before I got it. I can't wait for the day to take all the slop out of the cylinder ends and pivot points. I had planned on drilling them all out and bronze bush then ream. Mine are all 3/4 pins on the amerequip bh. I need to pick up a reamer set and add this to the list of things to do.

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Thanks for the offer @DavidBarkey , I was thinking of a simple fix like fill up with the welder on the inside and then drill with 3/4 bit. I wish I had a slightly smaller bit than 3/4 to finish up with the reamer. My concern about drilling with the 3/4 bit is that the pin will have too much play. Using a bushing solves that problem, you and @Spike188 are a few steps ahead of me, it shows who's got real experience fixing these things.

Now, on the subject of bushing. The rest of the machine is steel on steel. It feels a little too fancy to use a bronze bushing here. If it lasts another 20 years maybe a steel bushing is just fine.

@Jancoe , there's a really bad shape d100 backhoe waiting for me too. That'll be fun!

Eugen wrote: ↑Sat Dec 31, 2022 10:28 am Thanks for the offer @DavidBarkey , I was thinking of a simple fix like fill up with the welder on the inside and then drill with 3/4 bit. I wish I had a slightly smaller bit than 3/4 to finish up with the reamer. My concern about drilling with the 3/4 bit is that the pin will have too much play. Using a bushing solves that problem, you and @Spike188 are a few steps ahead of me, it shows who's got real experience fixing these things.

Now, on the subject of bushing. The rest of the machine is steel on steel. It feels a little too fancy to use a bronze bushing here. If it lasts another 20 years maybe a steel bushing is just fine.

@Jancoe , there's a really bad shape d100 backhoe waiting for me too. That'll be fun!

With a hole that small and long it is easier to weld up the outside and the true up the bore for bushings.

Quiet around here in 2023.

I may as well post an update. The seal kit for two lift and one bucket cylinders have been ordered from hercules, but they won't be here until next week. Turns out that they didn't have one of the o-rings in stock and the order then is delayed so all parts are shipped together.

Haven't done anything to the out of round rod end, but ordered a couple of drill bits, 3/4 and 1 inch, found on amazon at a decent price. Been waiting for a good reason to buy these bits for a while.

Hercules delivered!


Last night I finished the bucket rod eye. Chose to go simple on this, added up interior material with the welder and then drilled with 3/4 bit which I ground a little smaller in diameter. Finished with the reamer. Much like me, not pretty but anatomically sound

All the seals, backing rings and o-rings are a perfect fit and they have been assembled on pistons and glands. This is a task best made at room temperature. I also used a cup with hot water to warm up all the backing rings and seals for installation. Especially the piston backing rings need to stretch quite a bit to make it over the collar and you don't want to risk breaking them. Another thing to pay attention to is the orientation of the rod wiper, lip towards outside. Gland inner seal, cup towards the inside. And backing ring for the outer o-ring of the gland, on the outside (see pic). Also, the backing rings have a flat profile on a side, and the slightest curved profile on the other. The curved profile must face the o-ring. I'll add a couple of drawings later.

The three cylinders are assembled. The interior retaining rings I ordered for the lift cylinders were too thick so I used the old ones which were fine. All other parts on the list fit perfectly. The real test will be if they don't leak.

As long as you debured the top of the cylinder and use a good dose of "slidem in there " , they will be just fine .

Keep your pins well lubed . It occurred to me that is why the piston was galled up . AS parts move under load and the pins need to rotate in the ends of the cylinders . When they can't move freely side loads are created pressing the piston against the cylinder wall . Piston being the softer of the two took the damage. Although minor you don't want metal in the system . Even the tractors need a good lube job now and then to keep them happy .

Today I saw these wheels for sale and would have liked to be able to get them, but they were too far. The original rims on this 644 have a couple of big holes from rust. Oh well

Working on the front upper frame now, of which one side arm (22) is missing, and the very front square frame (13) was badly bent in on the lower side. Not having a press, the 3 lb mallet was employed to straighten it.

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:43 pm Today I saw these wheels for sale and would have liked to be able to get them, but they were too far. The original rims on this 644 have a couple of big holes from rust. Oh well


21F286B8-3206-458A-B205-C6B64F9DE226.jpeg

Working on the front upper frame now, of which one side arm (22) is missing, and the very front square frame (13) was badly bent in on the lower side. Not having a press, the 3 lb mallet was employed to straighten it.


14E94549-088A-48D0-8CD0-8C7B9D930DB9.jpeg

Can you take measurement of the missing part from the other loader ?

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:15 am Can you take measurement of the missing part from the other loader ?

It's just an angle iron 24.5" long, with 1.2"x3.1" angle and 3/16 thick. At the moment I want it functional so I just used an angle iron I had around. It gives the upper frame stiffness and that's all that matters now.

Couple more small parts went on: seat and front grill.

Question: would you fix a rim like this with that fairly large rust eaten hole? And if yes, how? Brazing?

@propane1 you fixed that hood real nice. I'd like to be able to do something like you did to this hood.

Whew , boy that wheel is nasty Eugen. A lot of clean up needed there for sure. Any welding method would work there.
A little thinking and fitting time, with a mig welder will fix the hood.

Noel

@Eugen That rim look like it has had calcium in it without a tube . If that is the case the rest of the rim will be very baddly corroded as well I would look in to another rim . How is the other one ?

https://www.agwheelexpress.com/store/c1 ... off-white/

https://specialtytire.ca/product/ag-whe ... -6-6-on-6/

Some JD tractors/ impliments used that size on the front you may find used at on of the salvage yards .

if it was just the spot by the valve stem it may be worth the time. but I'm thinking there's a lot more thin spots. and if was caused by chloride it's going to be hard to get to good metal.
I tried to fix a leaking weld on my brother in laws septic truck, what looked like just burn a rod or two, turned into a couple hour project. Nothing but layers of rust.

New rim would be a good idea, depending on the inside condition of the rim and if weak in other places. Wether a tube would work with out getting cut from the rust on the inside. Me, I’d fix that spot, and drill a new hole in better metal for the stem.
If you go a new rim Eugen. Make sure the off set is the same as what you have now.

Just a quick ramble on what I would do. Everybody has their own good ideas. You’ll have to do the picking the method you want to do Eugen.


Noel

Indeed, there's a tube inside now, and calcium chloride. I do have a set of 16" rims with AG tires installed on the other 644, so I could use those on this one and sell the working 644 with its original rims which are like new. But it would feel good to save these rims somehow, I hate throwing things out. I'll try to see how deep the rust goes everywhere else and if it's too deep and in too many places... that's that.

Those rims do look pretty rough. If you find they’re too far gone to reuse they might still serve a purpose. You might find enough good metal in spots to be able to cut patch panels out to use on other rims down the road.

Just a thought to maybe give you a reason to hang on the them!

@eugen I should have a decent set of 15" rims for your 644. Also the grill support. I will do some digging tomorrow mid-day.

Spike188 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:46 pm @eugen I should have a decent set of 15" rims for your 644. Also the grill support. I will do some digging tomorrow mid-day.

Eugene, that is very kind of you! I feel bad dipping in your treasure stash though.

JSinMO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 7:26 pm Those rims do look pretty rough. If you find they’re too far gone to reuse they might still serve a purpose. You might find enough good metal in spots to be able to cut patch panels out to use on other rims down the road.

Just a thought to maybe give you a reason to hang on the them!

I should be more careful how I use words. Wouldn't literally throw the rims out, just give up on them to be used as rims, and keep them around for who knows what.

@DavidBarkey thanks for the link to new rims, I guess if I cannot find any alternative I might at some point just get a pair of new rims.

I didn’t think you’d throw the rim out. And I figured you would thy and fix it Eugen. Thats the way I am. I’ve got more stuff around here than you could shake a stick at. Keep every thing. My son is like that too. He also keeps wood cut offs and stuff from remodelling. Comes In handy.


Noel

propane1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:51 am I didn’t think you’d throw the rim out. And I figured you would thy and fix it Eugen. Thats the way I am. I’ve got more stuff around here than you could shake a stick at. Keep every thing. My son is like that too. He also keeps wood cut offs and stuff from remodelling. Comes In handy.


Noel

You're exactly right Noel. A lot of what I do I think of it as practicing. I have no experience brazing with the oxy-acetylene torch. This could be good practice, trying to fix these rims. But @Timj has a really good point, the rust might be too deep in too many places. Won't have time to do a real deep clean up now, so I do want to use different wheels for the time being.

Been thinking about prioritizing what still needs to be done to this tractor to call it tentatively finished so I can sell the other 644. On the todo list.

Must do asap:
* fix/redo bucket pin bushings
* fix hood
* mount the bucket
* mount rear wheel fenders
* fabricate bracket to hold the exhaust pipe routed under the rear axle
* replace rust damaged rear wheel
Should do at later time:
* paint various parts
* get tube for passenger front tire losing air over time
* fabricate 3pth
* some other stuff I can't think of now

Great plan Eugen. Your getting there.


Noel

Tonight I worked a little on the bucket. Sorry, no pics, haven't done much, just a little grinding of old welds to make them prettier and straighten up some of the bushings. The bucket really needs a good wire brush cleaning and a couple of coats of paint when the weather permits. This pile of parts also came missing all bucket pins, so that's something to be done too. A tiny update.

The state of "looks like crap but it's fully functional" has been reached. Engine runs nicely, all fuel delivery is clean and many new parts, hydraulics don't leak and strong, joints are tight and greased.

Despite its looks I am content that it is no longer just a bunch of good for nothing parts. This can do work and it will not be spared.

Yaaaaae, hopefully we can see a video of it on the go some time Eugen. Looks great.

Noel

Working well and well worked is more important than lipstick and mascara . Pretty is nice but if it can't do the job it just a parade queen .
Now parade queens are nice if you have the time , space and money for them .

Well done! Looks like a tractor again. The nice thing about not being painted is you don’t worry about scratching it or getting it dirty!

Looks like some seat time is in order. Looks good. Did you get your wheel issue resolved?

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Jancoe wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:11 pm Looks like some seat time is in order. Looks good. Did you get your wheel issue resolved?

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In a way I suppose I did. Will use 16" rims from one of the parts tractors.

Took it out of the tent tonight but it was dark, no video. Put it through some moves, everything works.

Your 644 looks better than my 644lbh. I figure this GT is for work and not show. A little rust here some mud there no big deal. Running and operating as it should is more important to me than how the paint looks. Harry

Small step ahead. After drilling the 3/4" pins on the bucket linkages new roll pins were installed.

Then it took me a while to find a piece of sheet metal the same thickness as the hood and cutting the missing piece out of it.
Set the flux core welder to low current and there it stuck.

There will be angle grinder in its future.

Eugen wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:39 pm Small step ahead. After drilling the 3/4" pins on the bucket linkages new roll pins were installed.

Then it took me a while to find a piece of sheet metal the same thickness as the hood and cutting the missing piece out of it.

F0F2454C-B26A-4163-A0BE-3F29EBB11C38.jpeg

Set the flux core welder to low current and there it stuck.


74020FC0-D144-4A8D-8DAE-82815829F611.jpeg

There will be angle grinder in its future.

Before you grind it turn the heat up on the welder and make a fusion pass on the back side . The first pass you made on the top will allow you to get a nice flat weld without burning through . Look on the back side . With low heat you most likely did not get full penetration and weld will crack . I sometimes do this on purpose with but welds on thin stock . Do a cold build up on one side then come back and do a hotter pass to get full penetration without blowing through . If I had a Tig , I would do it differently . A tig is just a lottery win away.

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:57 am

Before you grind it turn the heat up on the welder and make a fusion pass on the back side . The first pass you made on the top will allow you to get a nice flat weld without burning through . Look on the back side . With low heat you most likely did not get full penetration and weld will crack . I sometimes do this on purpose with but welds on thin stock . Do a cold build up on one side then come back and do a hotter pass to get full penetration without blowing through . If I had a Tig , I would do it differently . A tig is just a lottery win away.

Haha Dave, nothing goes past you does it? I love it how you see right to the crux of the matter. Indeed, the hood is thin stock, maybe 1/16" thick. Let me tell you, not having basically any welding experience to speak of I was quite impressed that I didn't melt through the thin stock. I used 0.035 wire and was on maybe 15% up from minimum on heat. Noticed that when I was at a sharp angle with the sheet it was less likely to penetrate through making a hole. The new helmet with the magnifying glass and the new filter allowed me to see the tip of the wire so clearly that it was quite easy to move it nicely so as to lay a nice bead. Also, longer beads came out nicer, I suppose more of the inner core creates that shielding gas.

How about this for many words to say I did weld on both sides.

A little wire wheel action and a preliminary coat of paint makes a difference and provides a little protection. Not the right shade of yellow. That's fine.

You went from a pile of parts to a working machine pretty quick! The wrong color is better that no paint, can always paint it again!

Bring and sunny like the owners disposition . Makes a good primer coat .

Nice fix Eugen. What was the hole in the hood there for. Do you think.
Or have I asked that question already.

Noel

propane1 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:29 am Nice fix Eugen. What was the hole in the hood there for. Do you think.
Or have I asked that question already.

Noel

Noel, I think they cut the hole in the hood for the exhaust stack of that small diesel engine.

Now I have a 10hp diesel engine that I think would be economical if I could make it work on the 224 only for mowing deck duty. But it doesn't have any easy way to put a front PTO on it, so I'm thinking of selling it.

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:34 am

propane1 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:29 am Nice fix Eugen. What was the hole in the hood there for. Do you think.
Or have I asked that question already.

Noel

Noel, I think they cut the hole in the hood for the exhaust stack of that small diesel engine.

Now I have a 10hp diesel engine that I think would be economical if I could make it work on the 224 only for mowing deck duty. But it doesn't have any easy way to put a front PTO on it, so I'm thinking of selling it.

I might be able to help with that and or buying it . Is it got the electric start and alt. package ?

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:23 pm
I might be able to help with that and or buying it . Is it got the electric start and alt. package ?

Has both electric start and alternator.

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:28 pm

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:23 pm
I might be able to help with that and or buying it . Is it got the electric start and alt. package ?

Has both electric start and alternator.

Drop it off one day , I will see what I can come up with for a clutch stub .

Small step forward. This tractor had the attachment lift cylinder on the frame, but I had no intention of using it. Until I could come up with a 3pth solution I wanted the cylinder off the tractor, and was looking for a way to bypass the auxiliary circuit. The best way I could think of doing it was to loop one on the aux cylinder hoses back to the TCV port. The problem was finding a fitting for that. There are two hoses that go to the aux cylinder. Both hoses are 5/16 female on the TCV side, because the TCV has JIC female fittings. On the side of the cylinder one hose is 1/4 NPT male, and the other is 5/16 JIC male. Both aux ports on the TCV are 5/16 ORB female (#5). The original fittings there are ORB-5 male to 5/16 JIC male. There was nowhere to find a female to female 5/16 union fitting, to loop the hose from aux that had 5/16 JIC male on the cylinder side. So I was looking for a fitting that was 1/4 NPT female to ORB. But I actually didn't know it was ORB size 5! Sometimes I just rely on my memory, which is often a bad idea.

My job takes me to Toronto sometimes, a two hour drive, and when that happens, I stop by Princess Auto (PA), the store I usually get hydraulic fittings from, midway to Toronto. The first time I stopped there I looked at the available fittings, and according to my "eye" micrometer got the #6 orb - 1/4 NPTF. That night when I tried to install the fitting, noticed it was too big. Next time I went to PA, 2 weeks later, I got the next size down, which turned out to be #4 orb. yes, because that particular store is not well stocked, and they were missing #5 orb, not even having a spot on the shelf for it. In retrospect I should've measured the thread diameter, but sometimes I trust the store and my memory too much. I expected the store to have all standard sizes, therefore, if the fitting I got was just a bit too large, getting the next smaller one would be the right one. In this case I got orb #4 which I found that night, was too small.

At that point I thought that ORB-5 is probably an odd size and I won't be able to find it easily. @FUTZ offered to help me with that, as he has access to professional stock of hydraulic parts.

Turns out that I had to go to another city for issues having to do with my sister's estate, and passed by another Princess Auto. On impulse I went in just for the heck of it. Well, that particular location had a much larger hydraulic section and was so much better stocked than the one I usually go to, I was impressed. Plus they got the right fitting for me.
And so now the aux circuit is nicely looped back to the TCV and have no dangling cylinder in the middle section of the TCV. My 644 has changed it's name from Bill to Sue. Just like a boy named Sue, I suppose.

I made an effort to provide a long long ramble.

You did good Eugen on the ramble.

Noel

propane1 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:06 pm You did good Eugen on the ramble.

Noel

trying to learn from the best!

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:14 pm

propane1 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:06 pm You did good Eugen on the ramble.

Noel

trying to learn from the best!

Noel

Nicely Rambled @Eugen
In my little corner of Southern Ontario we are lucky to have several Princess Awfuls to choose from - Hamilton is the closest of course, but the selection and organization of the store leaves a lot to be desired - StCatharines, Kitchener and Brantford all have newer, bigger stores with much more inventory - I'm almost always checking store inventory online before I go to buy anything now...

Transgender tractor .
whats the world coming to .

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:40 pm
Transgender tractor .
whats the world coming to .

Maybe just eunuch, I don't know these things. I had to remove his protruding element, what can I say, it was no longer used. When I install the 3pth, what will it be then?

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:43 pm

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:40 pm
Transgender tractor .
whats the world coming to .

Maybe just eunuch, I don't know these things. I had to remove his protruding element, what can I say, it was no longer used. When I install the 3pth, what will it be then?

Don't be talking like that around my . I don't want my protruding element removed because I don't use it anymore . I am kinda attached to it , or it to me . Could become a hermaphrodite tractor maybe .

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:43 pm

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:40 pm
Transgender tractor .
whats the world coming to .

Maybe just eunuch, I don't know these things. I had to remove his protruding element, what can I say, it was no longer used. When I install the 3pth, what will it be then?

With the 3 pt on tell Sue "That makes your butt look big" see if she complains JUST don't say it when the is near or she might go get the rolling pin


Gordy

So I want to name it Sue because of the Johnny Cash song, but it'll get me in a lot of trouble if I tell my wife "going out to spend some time with Sue"

I'll put a 3pth on it and call it tail then I'll give it a pet name.

Just remember it's the same little tractor that your family has grown up with, what's inside hasn't changed just because it started with a JICM and now feels that being an NPTF is the way it wants to go from here... 'could be worse - could've gone ORFS just to be "unique"

@JSinMO I found the list for the 644 lift and bucket cylinders, here it is, attached. The part numbers are for
http://herculesus.com
or
http://herculesca.ca

@Eugen Thank you very much! I saved the pdf. I’m hoping to get to this sometime this summer.

As I got replacement rims from @Spike188 for the 644, it's time to get the tires off the old rims. That should be interesting. Breaking the bead.
Work in progress...

First time I see one this bad. Makes me wonder if I can even use that tire.

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:18 pm First time I see one this bad. Makes me wonder if I can even use that tire.

0671DA8C-23F2-46F2-A7C8-5745238F71FF.jpeg

whew that's rough.

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:18 pm First time I see one this bad. Makes me wonder if I can even use that tire.

0671DA8C-23F2-46F2-A7C8-5745238F71FF.jpeg

I see the rim is bad , but what is wrong with the tire ?

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 7:33 am I see the rim is bad , but what is wrong with the tire ?

Provably it won't seal on the rim. I know you're going to say inner tubes. Would've liked to avoid spending though.

@Eugen I would try wire wheel brushing the tire bead. That is a technique that tire shops use. Some also have a paste that gets applied to the rim.

Spike188 wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:38 am @Eugen I would try wire wheel brushing the tire bead. That is a technique that tire shops use. Some also have a paste that gets applied to the rim.

I was wondering about that too, if there's some sort of goo that might help, like the gasket maker but for tires. I'll do a search. Thanks @Spike188 !

But they're also cracked and may not hold air anyway, so I might end up with tubes. Now I stop whining.

@Eugen Yup... clean the crustys off the tire bead and then try some tire bead sealant - a local NAPA or auto parts store should have it... or Amazon (I did a quick look at Cdn Tire's website but that seemed to be a waste of time. it's a rubbery goo that gets brushed on the tire bead/rim and pretty much glues the rim to the tire - filling any voids... it will make removing the tire a lot more challenging the next time though. Tire shops use it to fix pitted aluminum rims with bead leaks.
Liquid stuff like "slime" that's good for fixing nail holes and small punctures won't work because it stays on the tread area of the tire...

FYI I use good quality tubes regardless .
You may keep the change .

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 5:09 pm FYI I use good quality tubes regardless .
You may keep the change .

You're right on Dave!


Looking for tubes

Yup... Going to take more than black glue to fix those tired sneakers...
Let me know where the best place to get inner tubes is... I can see a set in my future too...

@Eugen do you want the 2 tires I took off of the rims you trade with me. The tires are weather checked but better than yours. I will be at Atlantic in the morning.

Spike188 wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 8:39 pm @Eugen do you want the 2 tires I took off of the rims you trade with me. The tires are weather checked but better than yours. I will be at Atlantic in the morning.

I appreciate the offer Eugene. I cannot go to Toronto tomorrow.

I could leave them at Atlantic or a friends about 15 minutes from there if you want them.

@Spike188 if you could leave them at Atlantic it would be best, I have nowhere else other than the university but that's far and Atlantic is not a big detour for me anyway.

For quality tubes , Contact Tire Busters near me . Plus you can get hd ones that are meant for liquid loading .

Thank you @DavidBarkey, if the tires from @Spike188 cannot be used without tubes I'll give them a call.

Quick question: other than for liquid loading, are the HD tubes desirable or can I get more normal ones? I don't intend to load them with liquid.

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 9:38 am Thank you @DavidBarkey, if the tires from @Spike188 cannot be used without tubes I'll give them a call.

Quick question: other than for liquid loading, are the HD tubes desirable or can I get more normal ones? I don't intend to load them with liquid.

HD tubes will last longer and will carry more load .