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$70.98 loader repair

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:15 pm
by thebuildist
So I've never gotten my loader cylinders to stop bleeding down. I can drastically slow it down by jiggling the loader valve handle, so that's solidly where my suspicion lies.

Yes, I've been told how to test it, NO I haven't done it. Because I KNOW there's something fishy with the valve, so first fix that, then go from there.

The valve itself is mid-grade, surprisingly rich for my cheap blood. My very first valve was $50, and I cut a PB port into it and did my first trials with it. The ones where the line blew out and soaked me with oil.

I figured out that my design was the real problem, but I also decided to SPLURGE and pay $200 for a "better quality" spool valve. So I ordered one from Northern Tool. I should have known better. It's starting to seem like you either pay $700 for the name brand, or finesse and fix whatever is defective on the cheaper version you buy. Whether that's $50 cheap, or $200 cheap, same deal.

SO, I've learned my lesson, and bought a new valve, the cheapest I could find that fits my hoses. I'll no doubt have to "fix" it, but no more so than the high-dollar valve that's on there now.

The reason I didn't reinstall my $50 valve is because it came with all BSP thread ports, and I had to make/buy a bunch of adapters to hook up to it the first time. But since then I've completely reconfigured my piping scheme, and those adapters won't work for the hoses that are coming out of the spool valve now. So it's just about as cheap to buy a valve with the correct ports as it is to buy the adapters.

BESIDES which, I have bought a special valve, one with a special feature that I intend to harness very soon: A third spool.

So I now have in my grubby little hands an extra spool on my loader valve, a pair of 5' long hoses, and an extra cylinder with about 10" of ram travel.

Any guesses as to what I might be up to?

Bob

Re: $70.98 loader repair

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:31 pm
by thebuildist
Don't grapple too hard with the answer.

Just brush aside any doubts you have about my sanity and ask yourself,

"What's the last accessory he needs to sqeeze the absolute most use out of his shiny new bucket and/or forks?"

:D

Re: $70.98 loader repair

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:27 pm
by Harry
thebuildist wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:15 pm So I've never gotten my loader cylinders to stop bleeding down. I can drastically slow it down by jiggling the loader valve handle, so that's solidly where my suspicion lies.

Yes, I've been told how to test it, NO I haven't done it. Because I KNOW there's something fishy with the valve, so first fix that, then go from there.

The valve itself is mid-grade, surprisingly rich for my cheap blood. My very first valve was $50, and I cut a PB port into it and did my first trials with it. The ones where the line blew out and soaked me with oil.

I figured out that my design was the real problem, but I also decided to SPLURGE and pay $200 for a "better quality" spool valve. So I ordered one from Northern Tool. I should have known better. It's starting to seem like you either pay $700 for the name brand, or finesse and fix whatever is defective on the cheaper version you buy. Whether that's $50 cheap, or $200 cheap, same deal.

SO, I've learned my lesson, and bought a new valve, the cheapest I could find that fits my hoses. I'll no doubt have to "fix" it, but no more so than the high-dollar valve that's on there now.

The reason I didn't reinstall my $50 valve is because it came with all BSP thread ports, and I had to make/buy a bunch of adapters to hook up to it the first time. But since then I've completely reconfigured my piping scheme, and those adapters won't work for the hoses that are coming out of the spool valve now. So it's just about as cheap to buy a valve with the correct ports as it is to buy the adapters.

BESIDES which, I have bought a special valve, one with a special feature that I intend to harness very soon: A third spool.

So I now have in my grubby little hands an extra spool on my loader valve, a pair of 5' long hoses, and an extra cylinder with about 10" of ram travel.

Any guesses as to what I might be up to?

Bob
Maybe Bob some of those parts could be used for your backhoe build! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Keep the Peace :cop: :peace:
Harry

Re: $70.98 loader repair

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:29 pm
by Timj
Ohh, I don't know, could it maybe be for a log splitter, for all that firewood you do. :D

Have you ever thought about making a grapple? :hm: I think you'd find lots of uses for one. :109:

Re: $70.98 loader repair

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:31 pm
by Eugen
thebuildist wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:31 pm Don't grapple too hard with the answer.

Just brush aside any doubts you have about my sanity and ask yourself,

"What's the last accessory he needs to sqeeze the absolute most use out of his shiny new bucket and/or forks?"

:D
yeah, inquiring minds want to know, I got a few cylinders and a valve and hoses which I bought because they were cheap, maybe I'll get inspired by what you end up doing. :D

How about a big 3 pth boom/crane, using a hydraulic cylinder to lift things? Your bucket functions as counter weight.

Re: $70.98 loader repair

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:36 pm
by Eugen
Harry wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:27 pm
Maybe Bob some of those parts could be used for your backhoe build! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Keep the Peace :cop: :peace:
Harry
yes, go for it Bob :j :j :j :j :j

Re: $70.98 loader repair

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:01 pm
by thebuildist
Timj wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:29 pm Ohh, I don't know, could it maybe be for a log splitter, for all that firewood you do. :D

Have you ever thought about making a grapple? :hm: I think you'd find lots of uses for one. :109:
Ding ding ding! We have a winner! If only we had a cigar..

Yes! I intend to build a grapple. Something that's relatively removable. Perhaps a couple pins to install or remove it.

The question now becomes, should I build it on my bucket, which I can point straight down and I would be able to use the grapple like a closing hand to pick things up...

Or should I build it for my forks? Because the forks are fairly long it makes it difficult to really grasp things as if it were a closing hand. But very easy to wrap around something like a log to pick it up for transport.

So I have to decide bucket or forks. Or come up with some fancy design that I could easily attach to either one. But that sounds tricky.

Bob

Re: $70.98 loader repair

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:08 pm
by thebuildist
I also need to pour some concrete. So I've thought of picking up a hydraulic motor and installing an auger flight in the crook of my bucket to make the bucket a concrete mixer.

But I only need to pour this one slab. That sure seems like a lot of expense and work just to only use it once. So I'll probably just rent a concrete mixer and get it over with.

And... I've thought about trying to build a three-point based stump grinder. I have the wheel. The bearings are inexpensive. I can manufacture the carbide tipped cutter inserts. But I don't see any way around the approx. $140 hydraulic motor. That's not all the money in the world. But it's enough that if I spend the money, I'm pretty much committed to seeing it through till I have a working product to justify my expense. And I prefer things to be lower cost, merely because the pressure is off of whether or not it ultimately works out or not. It seems like things actually work better when the pressure is off than when there's this sense that "I must finish this thing."

But for whatever I end up doing, I now have effectively a low-ish flow PTO valve. Not too shabby for $70.

Bob

Re: $70.98 loader repair

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:12 pm
by thebuildist
Eugen wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:31 pm
thebuildist wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:31 pm Don't grapple too hard with the answer.

Just brush aside any doubts you have about my sanity and ask yourself,

"What's the last accessory he needs to sqeeze the absolute most use out of his shiny new bucket and/or forks?"

:D
yeah, inquiring minds want to know, I got a few cylinders and a valve and hoses which I bought because they were cheap, maybe I'll get inspired by what you end up doing. :D

How about a big 3 pth boom/crane, using a hydraulic cylinder to lift things? Your bucket functions as counter weight.
One quick and easy accessory I need to whip up is a sling adapter to slide onto the forks. You put the forks together in the center and slide this adapter in place and it has a big hook and/or a d-ring so that you can attach a strap or chain to your forks and then lift thing up in the air.

It seems like that fulfills the same purpose that a three-point boom would, right?

Re: $70.98 loader repair

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:35 pm
by Eugen
When I lift things with the loader there are two things that I wish I had more of and don't: 1) distance to the tractor, because the item you lift up on a chain hooked to the loader bucket will swing and bang into the tractor hood, and 2) height. Perhaps all I need is just a boom attached to the loader bucket.

Re: $70.98 loader repair

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:17 pm
by thebuildist
Yes, along those lines, the forks I bought actually have a couple 3/8 in holes drilled in them. Out towards the tip not all the way. And I can make a place where I could slide this sling adapter I'm talking about in place and put a pin through those holes. Which will keep the adapter locked in place on the forks. Then I can turn the forks pointing skyward and my load will be slung from 7:00 or 8 ft in the air.

Re: $70.98 loader repair

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:11 pm
by Jancoe
I have adjustable forks for my 6018. They came off a b series kubota. I've been wanting to add a grapple to the forks for a long time now. You could slide into a brush pile deeper and hold it down. Or you could slide the forks closer and pick up a rock. The corners of your bucket will limit you. But... you could always make 2 grapples. Lol reusing the hoses and cylinder to swap back and forth.

Eugen, I agree on the distance from the bucket to the front end. I've been wanting to get some measurements off the loader forks on a 7020 for awhile now. I'm very limited with what dump trailer I barrow (lol) I can't get up into and dump in front of the wheels/fenders. They stop me and I can't dump a load into the trailer. I have a project dump trailer I picked up a while back I'll get rid of if I can't get the bucket over the side. I'd like a low deck over with high gwr.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk


Re: $70.98 loader repair

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:00 am
by DavidBarkey
Eugen wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:35 pm When I lift things with the loader there are two things that I wish I had more of and don't: 1) distance to the tractor, because the item you lift up on a chain hooked to the loader bucket will swing and bang into the tractor hood, and 2) height. Perhaps all I need is just a boom attached to the loader bucket.
The more distance from the tractor means less lifting capability, The higher you can lift the wider the tractor needs to be.
Every thing has its trade offs .

Re: $70.98 loader repair

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:39 pm
by thebuildist
Well, an update: The new valve is wider than the old one, WHICH means that it has to slide outboard from the old one. WHICH means that it's now directly behind and will be hit by the loader arm at full raise position. WHICH means it also had to slide an inch and a quarter aft toward the operator. So I made up a new 3/16" plate steel mounting plate, and welded it in and painted it and tapped it for a pair of 5/16" bolts and clamped it down.

Ingress and egress are still fine from that side. So far so good.

And the old valve had SAE#8 ports throughout:pressure in, tank out, and all 4 work ports. The new valve has SAE#10 pressure in and tank out. So I had to adapt my QD hoses to that. Pain the the butt, playing fittings Jenga to find a workable transition from "this" to "that". To address an area where the return hose was bent too tightly, I removed the vertical pipe leading to the return and cut it about 3 inches shorter and rethreaded it. That hose is much happer now. So a lot of messing around, but I found a workable setup.

And the new work ports, though they are the same SAE#8 as the old valve, are physically closer together than the old valve. So my swivel hoses had to be at more of a right angle to the valve to be able to fit/nestle next to each other. This, combined with the fact that the new valve is 1.25" farther aft, meant that one of my hoses was just too short to reach. So I had to remove the center support cover and pull some new slack for that hose, beginning at its far end and working it tighter through every clamp/strap that it goes through. I found JUST enough slack.

Moving on.

I already had some SAE#8 male to JIC6 Male elbows, one tall and one short. The height difference is necessary to be able to screw them in next to each other, otherwise the sticking out/horizontal part hits the fitting next to it. So you screw in the short one first, and then the tall one "helicopter blades" over top of it. HOWEVER, they make a "normal", a "long" and an "extra long". And I have a "normal" and "long". But to get both fittings to point straight forward, one fully over top of the other, (not angled at all) you have to have a "normal" and an "extra long". So I headed to the lathe and made an SAE#8 extender: A fitting with SAE8 male one one end and SAE8 Female on the other. So put that on the "long" side, and that jacked the "long" fitting way up into "extra extra long" territory.

Check.

I simply connected my two long hoses to the valve's center spool, and installed a set of male/famale QD's on the other end. And connected them to each other, making a big long loopback hose.

Finally I started it up and leak checked it. I had a huge leak on one of the JIC6's for the new hoses. Apparently "not quite finger tight" isn't good enough for 2000+ psi. Who'da thunk it? :no:

Everything else was fine.

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NOW FOR THE RESULTS:

Ever since my loader was brand new (about 8 weeks ago :geek: ) the boom and bucket each had two speeds of bleed down: "Visible", where you can easily see it getting lower and lower, and you have to jiggle the handle to get to stop, and "invisible", where you set it, jiggle the handle, and it holds. But 5 minutes later it's 4 or 5 inches lower than before.

That's really demoralizing for a brand new product. :violin: :headbash:

But now, you can just put the boom and bucket where ever you want them AND IT JUST STAYS THERE.

Crazy. I have never had a loader that does that before.

Hooray for me and my $70.98 loader repair!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:

Bob

Re: $70.98 loader repair

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:12 pm
by Eugen
Bob, my wife would've said "I told you to buy a quality product!" :rofl:

Sadly, in this age of cheap, new doesn't mean it's even decent quality. I'm glad you fixed this, and the fix in fact was not a lot of $$. Now you will enjoy your loader without reservations! :cheers: