Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

Ok guys. We have spent a while discussing how this section should look and feel. At the end of the day its really your decision.

Lets just start a K2 cab section!!!

Just a forward: I hate case cabs!!!! the front window angle is way too pronounced, The doors make mounting and dismounting almost impossible for a handicap (read me) person, the doors are at best flimsy and well the cab is claustrophobic etc. My cab drawings are based on mods I have made, new type doors, front viability improved and above all roomy too. Lets just call these cabs K2 plus plus.. Oh, you will find I have modified the roof an inch longer, reduced the front angle and added more space there too, power wipers.. etc..

OK, so the above post gave F3X and D files and are generic Fusion 360 files. So I know when you open them they don't display what I want a flat file drawing with dimensions so where does that leave me? How does that help? Well everything you need is included in the meta data of the file. With a little work to understand Fusion you have it all. The models were created very accurately and fusion gives you tools to explore the whole drawing. You can rotate and zoom, measure the distance, create a flat picture of the part with measurements, angle, etc.

Soooo, you are probably saying right now... want to download your own Free copy?

https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/free-trial

So lets start posting some intelligent .F3z files... For me these are the files that will make a difference! I don't want to be the only participant here either! As you now know if you looked at my previous posting of dwg files I have some opinions to share. Are you worried? Want to hear what I have learnt over more than 45 years (well I am 75 now!). I first never like to stand still!, for me there is always something lacking even though I can put up for a while with the status quo. Are you the same?

So for me being a dual Brit/American things get very complicated too. Lived with postage stamp property (in the UK) to acres in the US so what would you do?

For me I chose CASE/INGERSOLL! would you?

So living in WNY I need a snow tractor! sometime 24 inches overnight, sometimes nothing.. What would you do?

A tractor mounted snow blower to me was a starter (yeah I also have a walk behind too). Well that was fine for a season or too, but I am getting old and my neighbors too and I started doing their yards too. So now my Case 446 with snowblower needed more? Next came a K2 cab!! Problem was the cab was very not there! the doors were busted open, by that I mean that they did not close properly and the roof was rusted through, well you got it.. A $500 find that just did not live up to expectation..

o what do you do? If you are like me I looked internally! I wanted MY OWN ! what you are part f now is my design from basic design flaws that in my opinion did not help sell the Cab. Do I have all the answers...wish I did..want help.. most definitely.. Will to share where I am - most definitely.. want to help the best cab ever?

Hi David! thanks for being one of my avid supporters1

So if you have not already go and upload Fusion 360 for personal use as it's free. you should be able to import all f3z files..

ras101 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 22, 2023 4:46 pm Hi David! thanks for being one of my avid supporters1

So if you have not already go ans upload Fusion 360 for personal use as it's free. you should be able to import all f3z files..

All I could find is windows and mac only not Chrome Book . There is an online viewer I found but the drawings are but a speck on the page . I have limited personal, computing, and internet connection.

@ras101 Ray, could you please replace the dwg files with the f3d format? Thank you.

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:13 am @ras101 Ray, could you please replace the dwg files with the f3d format? Thank you.

@Eugen I thought the f3d files are the large heavy ones. Would that not be worse ?
I'm confused .

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:48 am
@Eugen I thought the f3d files are the large heavy ones. Would that not be worse ?
I'm confused .

They're a little larger than dwg but hold a lot more information, in a sense they are a superset of the dwg, because if you wanted you could generate dwg from them. See this one attached here.

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:56 am

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:48 am
@Eugen I thought the f3d files are the large heavy ones. Would that not be worse ?
I'm confused .

They're a little larger than dwg but hold a lot more information, in a sense they are a superset of the dwg, because if you wanted you could generate dwg from them. See this one attached here.

Inside Door Handle v1.f3d

I got that to load and see what it looks like . How do you pull sizes from it ?

@DavidBarkey you pretty much have identified one of the major problems with this format.

To actually fabricate a part the most useful type of drawing is a lot different than the 3D model. It would have various views and cross sections and all dimensions clearly stated. And that would be a pdf file, or jpeg, basically an image. The 3D model is useful if you want to modify it.

There is a way to use Fusion 360 to create a "DRAWING" but it involves quite a lot of work because you need to decide which views or cross sections to show, and which dimensions/sizes to show on the drawing. The best person to do this is usually the creator of the 3D model, and in our case that would be @ras101

I said this from the beginning, it's great to have the 3D models, but most people will not be able to do anything with them. Most people need just the 2D dimensional drawings, and they can be added here as pdf.

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:56 am

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:48 am
@Eugen I thought the f3d files are the large heavy ones. Would that not be worse ?
I'm confused .

They're a little larger than dwg but hold a lot more information, in a sense they are a superset of the dwg, because if you wanted you could generate dwg from them. See this one attached here.

Inside Door Handle v1.f3d

Wow! that actually worked for me - It loaded fusion 360 as a default viewer and I could see it right away.

I'm looking forward to finding the time to learn some new computer stuff...

CAD was always "Cardboard Aided Design" As a Mechanic (or Heavy Equipment Technician if we use fancy words ) I had a completely different relationship with CAD - on the shop floor - or working out of the back of a service truck CAD was a crude but effective tool for repairing something clearly designed by an engineer - " Cardboard to design, measure once cut twice, weld to fill, grind to get close, hammer to fit, paint to match..."

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:07 am @DavidBarkey you pretty much have identified one of the major problems with this format.

To actually fabricate a part the most useful type of drawing is a lot different than the 3D model. It would have various views and cross sections and all dimensions clearly stated. And that would be a pdf file, or jpeg, basically an image. The 3D model is useful if you want to modify it.

There is a way to use Fusion 360 to create a "DRAWING" but it involves quite a lot of work because you need to decide which views or cross sections to show, and which dimensions/sizes to show on the drawing. The best person to do this is usually the creator of the 3D model, and in our case that would be @ras101

I said this from the beginning, it's great to have the 3D models, but most people will not be able to do anything with them. Most people need just the 2D dimensional drawings, and they can be added here as pdf.

I agree with you completely @Eugen There must be a ton of work involved in making accurate measurements to create these 3D models. They are beautiful to look at and the labour of love to produce them is truly appreciated.

Personally I don't have a CNC milling machine or 3D printer that would utilize all the functions and information contained in these files. For my caveman workshop a screenshot or jpg of the 3D modelled image would be great to have an idea of what it looks like, but I would probably get the most practical use from a PDF of the X, Y and Z axis - kind of like when I was in high school 45yrs ago and learned about Isometric, Orthographic, Plan, Elevation and Cross Section drawings - There was a nice dovetail of technical programs - In drafting class you would draw plans (with paper and pencil) for projects to be completed in machine shop or wood shop... no computers required...

Ray has updated the initial post with Fusion 3D native files, which contain complete information about the 3D model. Thank you @ras101 !

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:08 am

ras101 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 22, 2023 4:46 pm Hi David! thanks for being one of my avid supporters1

So if you have not already go ans upload Fusion 360 for personal use as it's free. you should be able to import all f3z files..

All I could find is windows and mac only not Chrome Book . There is an online viewer I found but the drawings are but a speck on the page . I have limited personal, computing, and internet connection.

David, I have never used a Chrome Book and don't know its capabilities either. I do have or have used both an Iphone 13 and an Android phone though and have views for both. Yeah the images are small but still there..
Probably does not help you a lot so if you want a technical drawing that will enable you to build the part just ask...

So< still not sure what are the limitations here but clearly not all the files were attached.. so here's some more>>>

RoamingGnome wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:47 am

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:07 am @DavidBarkey you pretty much have identified one of the major problems with this format.

To actually fabricate a part the most useful type of drawing is a lot different than the 3D model. It would have various views and cross sections and all dimensions clearly stated. And that would be a pdf file, or jpeg, basically an image. The 3D model is useful if you want to modify it.

There is a way to use Fusion 360 to create a "DRAWING" but it involves quite a lot of work because you need to decide which views or cross sections to show, and which dimensions/sizes to show on the drawing. The best person to do this is usually the creator of the 3D model, and in our case that would be @ras101

I said this from the beginning, it's great to have the 3D models, but most people will not be able to do anything with them. Most people need just the 2D dimensional drawings, and they can be added here as pdf.

I agree with you completely @Eugen There must be a ton of work involved in making accurate measurements to create these 3D models. They are beautiful to look at and the labour of love to produce them is truly appreciated.

Personally I don't have a CNC milling machine or 3D printer that would utilize all the functions and information contained in these files. For my caveman workshop a screenshot or jpg of the 3D modelled image would be great to have an idea of what it looks like, but I would probably get the most practical use from a PDF of the X, Y and Z axis - kind of like when I was in high school 45yrs ago and learned about Isometric, Orthographic, Plan, Elevation and Cross Section drawings - There was a nice dovetail of technical programs - In drafting class you would draw plans (with paper and pencil) for projects to be completed in machine shop or wood shop... no computers required...

Just so you know I was born and bred in Th UK and moved to the States in 1989! I went to a "technical modern" school and got to use all the "modern:" stuff at that time. Yeah this meant "technical Drawing" using pen and paper, automated design, meaning lathe, furnace, drill press, etc,, got the message? computers were never part of that! Having said that I started in computers in 1970! yeah that far back but I am 75 years old now and have forgotten more than you will ever learn! So why don't I provide you with measured drawings? I really don't want you to stop where I have left off (just run out of energy I guess) > everything I have done to date can be accessed within my 3D files.. I just want to see you and others take that to the next level. If you take up this challenge I will know that my time was not wasted but more important to me is that my hobby will not die..Ray

Ray, I want to acknowledge that it's clear to me, the amount of work you put into creating these models is quite extraordinary. In time we should be able to export dimensional drawings. I'm sure that if someone wanted to actually build one of these parts they would have to extract dimensions from the 3D model.

I want to say, this is just excellent!

But how did you model it so accurately to the machine?

Do you have a fusion 360 model of a Case/Ingersoll tractor too?

Bob

Happy to help here where I can guys. As Eugen was saying for these particular drawings I might be the best source of info especially as I decided to share my work-in-progress K2 Cab design. As I think I said earlier I have modified my cab. Why did I do that? Well...

I bought parts of a K2 cab - one door with busted out window, roof that was rusted through, front skirt that has seen better days, etc. I did get a rusted roof, back panel, bottom closing panel, windshield, etc. but not much else Why did I do that? heaven knows (is that a phrase used in the States? (I am a transposed Brit or 32 years and still learning the language!). I do know that what I saw I knew needed a lot of loving care at best and mainly a total re-look at what I needed as a handicap person, etc. Still not in the best of health and sometimes find it difficult to pick things up and move them around so stay with me here too. So I stored all the parts that I had, bought some parts on Ebay when they became available but most of all did a lot of research on line too both on Case/Ingersoll forums (some of which are no longer with us) also some non Case/Ingersoll forums too as the Cabs were made for a number of GT types. Listened to many comments from users and yes added my own thoughts too. What I have shared in this section is not just a representation of the original K2 but a collaboration of ideas.

Here are my main changes to the Cab parts I had
!) increased the cab roof length by 1 Inch to push the Front profile forward.
2) added an adapter plate to the base of the front profile to footplate but kept the original angle bracket thus adding a front angle to allow more room for feet.
3) removed completely the front skirt and added plexi windows the top window below the windshield opens so that the tractor hood can be opened as required
4) Totally removed the flex doors! Replaced them with hard doors with plexi windows with the top one the slides open, door hand and lock, aluminum angle frame (8020.com) and the whole door has visual access - no more claustrophobia!! and you can see the curb too!
5) I only use stainless parts!! by that all my hardware, nuts/bolts/washers are from McMasterCarr stainless categories, usually socket head too unless a hex head is more appropriate for larger sizes.
6) I am also changing all my snow thrower to electric too. So even though I show a drawing to add a bracket for a snow blower rod I personally will not be using that.
7) One last thing here - windshield wiper! you will see drawings of my windshield wiper and that is a work in progress. IMO Every cab needs a working wiper.. Yeah, I live in snow country...

thebuildist wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:06 pm I want to say, this is just excellent!

But how did you model it so accurately to the machine?

Do you have a fusion 360 model of a Case/Ingersoll tractor too?

Bob

Hi Bob, sorry it's taken my a while to get back to you as I have been trying to get this section up and running with at least some of my work on Case GTs.

To answer your question. I have been a case owner since 2008 (a 1977 446). Never intended taking it any further than just using my tractor for snow blowing - yeah I lived in a western NY area that commonly got a 24 inch dump over night!
I now have a stable of 4 case tractors. I have one in pieces in my basement (at my age I need some heat!), a 1987 444 that I have bought parts for, upgraded, adding a cab to etc. I made an early decision (I mean 2010 ish) to always record my work/updates, etc. so what you are seeing and hearing is my journey through this. Yeah I am an engineer, my father was a 'design engineer too. I have always been into technical drawing (got an A+ at school), I am a computer nerd (yeah started that in the early 70's too). All my models are based on actual parts.. I use only the best measurement equipment out there, all digital.
You asked do I have a digital model of the tractor..the answer is not quite but almost! I will share what I have.. Ray

thebuildist wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:06 pm I want to say, this is just excellent!

But how did you model it so accurately to the machine?

Do you have a fusion 360 model of a Case/Ingersoll tractor too?

Bob

Hi Bob, we are getting there my friend. To answer your question about "do I have a model" well almost! at least the whole chassis. It still needs wheels, etc. Trying to work out how to "start it" . I probably have another 50 plus drawings to share.

Ok guys, noticed there has been a little traction on these drawings.

So a little history info now on what you have here and my design intent...I also trying to set up a base from which to set up my modelling. I this case (pun intended) I bought a 1987 444 frame than I staged in my basement (still there! but soon to be moved outside for painting). All of my work has been based off that frame. I added things I have bought over time from Ebay, etc. such as fenders, seat supports, etc, etc. When I wanted to try something new such a cab doors, front screens etc. I tended to model them using poster board/cardboard sheets etc. and honed them close to what I am thinking (I am very visual) then measure and work with that to really get my thoughts right. I might model several times before I reach what I am really looking for. I still have the cardboard doors and front screens fitted to my basement model! and yes I have created these parts using plexiglass and 80/20 aluminum angle. Still got to paint my parts though(not my scene) . Why am I waiting I need to service the Engine (18HP B&S Vanguard) and buy the electric clutch and a few other items first.

I bought a very rusty K2 beat up (read "well used") cab from a local salvage place. It came with a rusted out roof but still had sections. One door that had the window completely destroyed and no second door. An intact windshield and rear window and some of the hardware to mount including front skirt. No info on what it had been mounted on so no back ground.

The first thing I did was to take what was left apart. Took awhile as the hardware was either rusted, missing ,or worse cross threaded sometimes with miss-matched thread hardware (made the decision right then that I will only use stainless nut/bolts/washers and anything else I can create that is stainless or non-rusting too) . Yeah you are right took awhile and sometimes needed a saw or grinder too to remove parts.
Part 1..
So the roof was completely shot! So my first action was to measure every part and log it all into a rough hand produced drawing (did "tech drawing at school as a kid, and well my father was a design draughtsman in the UK and I guess that rubbed off on me too). All my drawings and measurements were using digital tools. Those I did not have I purchased! I mainly used digital calipers (I have the standard 6" and also a 12" set), digital angle gauges, and digital tape measure too, and oh digital hole gauges, thread checkers, etc. And another thing I had plenty of free alone time too in the evenings (no internet or TV available.
I then started to think about my "new project" . I was very fortunate - I lived at that time in Canastota NY and close by I had a small family business that specialized in Farm Equipment repair and fabrication, i.e.. sheet metal fabrication, turning and painting.. that was quite close by at a very reasonable price so I got to know them quite well.
I looked at multiple Case K2 cab photos and read a ton load of material from owners too and some of their updates. The one thing I gleaned was that almost everyone complained about the up front windshield angle, the doors, the available foot space, etc. the visibility up front and downward too, and the cab felt claustrophobic and and surprisingly the rear window too (hope I covered everything). I decided that I wanted to fix that in my cab especially as I have back issues and I needed space to get my feet located inside the cab and I tend to be the go-too person in my neighborhood for snow blowing. Also I added lighting, mirrors, etc.
So when I started I decided that my cab design needed to be forward of the old cab design to allow more foot area, so how? so while doodling I extended the roof ! not a lot just an inch and moved the front profile up too and added a transition to the front to foot rest hence the "front adapter bracket' was born (remember that I had no doors either so no need to retain the front angle or anything) and that put a "kink into the front angle" .
I was very aware though that the hood needed to open too! (one thing with Fusion 360 is the ability to set hinge points and rotate about those points so being able to open windows/panels/hoods etc to check fit is no problem! (the hinge points on my models are always set so if you have knowledge of Fusion you can see how this works too) and windows slide.
The second thing (well actually for me part of my initial design concept was to get rid of the front skirt!) I wanted full vision up front and also to the sides unlike the original cab and doors and hence part of the reason to kink the front profile. I also wanted solid doors but also see through too, locks (onl;y because my GT is left outside during the winter in the front yard), etc..

Break here I will be back tomorrow

So, part 2...

As I examined the parts I had I found that the back window seemed to me wrong! I guess the ability to remove it was legit in that if your GT had rear hydraulics that gaining access might be needed but for me even if I had that, that I don't, I would not be using it in the winter either when the cab would be on. In my design I removed the existing window and hardware and replaced it with a 1/4 inch plexiglass window and trim so it was non removable. I spent a while on McMaster Carr (my go to site for all my hardware needs) and found the rubber trim that worked for me too. When I went to add the K2 lower metal adapter and cab back to my 87 frame and fenders i did not like just drilling holes for the cab in the fenders and decided to add a "strengthening bar" too. You could/can leave that out but for me it was important.

The roof was totally remade! (I used my local fab house) mine was rusted out and I could see light through the roof section it was that bad. Seems that the original owner lived off the 104 close to Fulton, NY and kept his GT outside year round, etc. I had the original roof remade but added an inch to the length and moved the front mounting points an inch forward too.
So now we come to the front frame. The frame was in reasonable condition. The windshield/screen was in good condition but the rubber seal was, well shot, and anyway when I removed the windshield I basically destroyed the rest of the rubber but I kept the windshield (glass) for later use. This cab did not have a wiper fitted (I guess long gone) but did have a hole for the wiper.
Taking my approach to trial and fabricate parts first I mounted all the parts first to the frame and fenders, added the transition piece and back and roof and the the front frame. I then created and built the transition and added the angles to the foot rest (these I kept standard). I can't stress enough!!! all my hardware is Stainless!!!!!! IMO the only way to go and I always use star head bolts also when available.
So sorry not as long as I intended as part 2 so I apologize but please keep reading..
Update 3 soon...

So I scored a couple of pieces of Plexiglass on Craigslist - 1/4" 4'x4' for $120! should be enough to complete the cab door windows and perhaps some of the front skirt or more... Might get this cab machined soon and ready for paint.

ras101 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 2:40 pm So I scored a couple of pieces of Plexiglass on Craigslist - 1/4" 4'x4' for $120! should be enough to complete the cab door windows and perhaps some of the front skirt or more... Might get this cab machined soon and ready for paint.

Looking forward to see it Ray! Good score on that plexiglass too!

Ok, so here's the deal guys. Although it is easy if you down load the Fusions 360 free app be able anything on the 3D models if you truly want to start to build something reach out to me and I will try to help. All I ask in return is to share ideas.. Got any? I really, really want this section to drive our collective thoughts... we can make these machines sooooo much better but it can't be done by one person , please share your ideas. Even if you just say you used some of these drawings would help. They take quite a time to produce.Just know that every dimension that you will ever need is contained in the 3D drawing. Would you like 2d with dimensions probably yes but they are there guys with a lot more info than a 2D could ever provide. Need help, just ask...

Part 3 - long over due..

so guys, I just realized going back through my records that span 12 years or so that I never gave credit to the people that inspired my start on the my cab design. As you can imagine the weather played a significant role, after all I live in WNY, but there were two people that really set the scene for me and I want to shout out!

Grummy - he was a major influence for me. He shared extensively at a time when I was avidly learning about the Case GT. I hope he is still doing OK as I have not heard or seen him on these forums recently

BobAfton - who's cab design I shamelessly followed before adding my own twists.

Only by reading and absorbing each others thoughts, modifications, designs, whatever will we learn, adapt, and improve.

Thank you guys

Ray

So guys I am hopeful that we can share with you one of the best home built cab designs, ever! We are waiting for Grummy's permission to share designs that he created over a decade ago on other Case/Ingersoll forums and his own website. Grummy used his GT for profit during the winter snow blowing around his neighbor hood. Over the years of doing that he 'learnt about what worked for him with his business and what did not. He knew he needed a cab but the Case/Ingersoll version, ie K1 and K2 did not work for him. Way too vision restrictive - etc. He had all those and discarded them! He needed something else so he took all his knowledge and designed his own a hard shelled cab for a 446/448. I hope he will give permission to share with you guys but know my cab is based on his with a few twists..