Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

So I put forks on my loader today and it works very well. To satisfy my curiosity, with a pallet on the forks I put it about 18" off the ground and stepped up and stood on the very end of the forks, 36" out from the fulcrum point. I wanted to see if my 200 lbs out at that distance would make the rear tires lift off the ground.

To my satisfaction, the rear end stayed put quite nicely.

The forks, however, did not. They began bleeding downward within just a few seconds.

There are no leaks that I know of, so I guess it has to be the new spool valve? It's from Northern Tool and claims to have load holding check valves. I thought it would be ok quality, but perhaps not.

Is there anything I should look at in there other than finding that check valve and lapping its seat?

Bob

Are you sure it's not internal cylinder leak?

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:58 am Are you sure it's not internal cylinder leak?

I hadn't thought of that. I guess I'm assuming brand new cylinders wouldn't have an internal leak. But I guess it's possible. I'm not sure how I'd diagnose that.

Bob

thebuildist wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:30 am

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:58 am Are you sure it's not internal cylinder leak?

I hadn't thought of that. I guess I'm assuming brand new cylinders wouldn't have an internal leak. But I guess it's possible. I'm not sure how I'd diagnose that.

Bob

The only way I know of is to raise the the bucket , support it and then remove the line cap fitting creating a external hydro lock, remove support and apply a load . measure and leave for period of time , remeasure and see if it has move any measurable amount . If it has , note new measurement and leave for same amount of time and see if it continues or is just air from opening lines .

thebuildist wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:30 am I hadn't thought of that. I guess I'm assuming brand new cylinders wouldn't have an internal leak. But I guess it's possible. I'm not sure how I'd diagnose that.

Bob

If you can assume that the new spool valve can leak, the same applies to the cylinders. For me the big surprise is that it happens on relatively small weight.

I would suspect the relief valve you built first, although I don't remember where it is located in the hydraulic circuit.

Ok for testing. Retract the cylinder all the way. Now remove the extend hose at cyl fitting. If you have fluid coming out of the cyl port the cyl is bypassing. If you have it coming out of the hose you are seeing a valve bypass. Next try the cyl fully extended and remove the retract hose and test again.

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@Jancoe sorry, I'm not really following why fluid would come out of the cylinder. If there is internal bypass, wouldn't the fluid just pass the rod seal from one side of the cylinder to the other, in effect the volume of liquid in the cylinder remaining the same?

Ok sorry I didn't finish. When you retract the cyl fully, remove extend hose at cyl. With extended hose removed now activate valve in retract. If fluid comes out of cyl port, cyl is bypassing. If coming from hose the valve is bypassing. Then check with cyl extended and test with valve in extend. This is a very easy way to test cyl and valve issue at same time. You will always get a residual fluid coming from valve due to pressure changes within the valve. You will know if there is a leak when this is performed.

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Jancoe wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:28 pm Ok sorry I didn't finish. When you retract the cyl fully, remove extend hose at cyl. With extended hose removed now activate valve in retract. If fluid comes out of cyl port, cyl is bypassing. If coming from hose the valve is bypassing. Then check with cyl extended and test with valve in extend. This is a very easy way to test cyl and valve issue at same time. You will always get a residual fluid coming from valve due to pressure changes within the valve. You will know if there is a leak when this is performed.

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,
I think I follow you. But not running when you test, right?

Bob

Yes you will run the engine. Do not run the valve accidentally the wrong direction or you will shoot a high psi stream of fluid out. Cyl retracted. Valve in retract. Your extend side is not pressurized when the cyl is fully retracted. So when hose is off any noticeable small psi stream runs out of either end of cyl or hose you know where it's coming from. Stick the hose in a pop bottle and tape it on. Another bottle to cyl fitting.

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got it. And thanks!

Bob

thebuildist wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:36 pm ...
There are no leaks that I know of, so I guess it has to be the new spool valve? It's from Northern Tool and claims to have load holding check valves. I thought it would be ok quality, but perhaps not.

Is there anything I should look at in there other than finding that check valve and lapping its seat?

Bob

Load checks are not on cylinder ports of valve. So valve can still leak to tank. Hold checks are on the pressure port. The intention is when you have a load say on the boom and you pull the bucket lever, oil doesn't pass from the boom to the bucket. Without the check, the bucket could flip up fast and the boom drop; or visa versa depending on order of cylinders.

FUTZ wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:03 pm

thebuildist wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:36 pm ...
There are no leaks that I know of, so I guess it has to be the new spool valve? It's from Northern Tool and claims to have load holding check valves. I thought it would be ok quality, but perhaps not.

Is there anything I should look at in there other than finding that check valve and lapping its seat?

Bob

Load checks are not on cylinder ports of valve. So valve can still leak to tank. Hold checks are on the pressure port. The intention is when you have a load say on the boom and you pull the bucket lever, oil doesn't pass from the boom to the bucket. Without the check, the bucket could flip up fast and the boom drop; or visa versa depending on order of cylinders.

Thank you for that clarification. It obviously helps if I at least understand how it's supposed to work!

Bob

I used it some more today, and it seems like MAYBE it might just be that the spring return on the loader valve handles might not be centered. It's hard to be sure, but it seems like if you jiggle the handles a little bit that it stops the slow lowering.

I'm going to have to play with it more to be sure, but it seems like that may be the case. If so, I need to open up the spring centering caps and find a way to adjust "neutral."

Bob

thebuildist wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:11 pm I used it some more today, and it seems like MAYBE it might just be that the spring return on the loader valve handles might not be centered. It's hard to be sure, but it seems like if you jiggle the handles a little bit that it stops the slow lowering.

I'm going to have to play with it more to be sure, but it seems like that may be the case. If so, I need to open up the spring centering caps and find a way to adjust "neutral."

Bob

Put a drop of oil on the outside of the exposed spools . I found sometimes new spools stick a little due to everything being new and tight . If that does not help crack the centring caps enough to squirt a little oil in there as well . Usually helps returning .

Great idea. I'll give that a try.

Bob