loader build resumes!

[Eugen]

I currently have 104 lbs on each rear wheel of the 644 and about six 40 lbs suit case weights in the rear box. Me in the seat another 140 lbs or so. Carried full buckets of sand, gravel, and large ash logs and never felt like more weight at the back would help. Another advantage of multiple smaller weights is that you may try one size and find you don't need more. @DavidBarkey made some great wheel weights out of concrete and he documented that in a thread here. IMHO wheel weights should be a priority as it does not add weight to the axle and most likely you never have to take them off. Just my 2c

[DavidBarkey]

Bob , I have run a home loader on Frankie for many years now . I can tell you from experience that splitting the counter weight is key and distance is your friend .
Rear wheels are loaded , now I spent the money on the special tubes and had professionally filled with calcium . They weight 300lbs each . plus bolt on weights
The counter weight I use is off the back of the 3 pt hitch 3 bags of create in 2 5 gallon pails = 180 lbs but distance off the back make it do more for less .

By splitting where you put the weight you split the forces on the axles . With strictly chassis weight , when ever you are unloaded all that weight is on the rear axles . By splitting the weight you reduce that . When loaded the the forces of weighted wheel will be pulling down on the axles while the chassis weight will be pushing down on the axle housing . If done correctly they cancel each other out reducing the load on the axles and housing .
Now there are many ways to achieve wheel weight and chassis weight . This is what I have done .
Now all that loader weight will be on that front axle . Sorry , can't remember what did you to to address that . ?

[JSinMO]

@Eugen and @DavidBarkey
Have good points putting the weight on the axels.
If you look at my 830 ( I know not a garden tractor, but the concept it the same ) I’ve never run extra weight on the back of the tractor. All my counterweight is at the axels.

I have tires filled with calcium chloride, 2 sets of weights and the iron hubs for duels and that’s it. I’ve never felt like I needed more weight on the back.

Calcium chloride works well, but when it eventually leaks it can destroy you rims over time and make a mess. I know some people have used beet juice, or windshield washer fluid in there tires as a replacement. If you go that route you want something that won’t freeze.

[thebuildist]

Bob , I have run a home loader on Frankie for many years now . I can tell you from experience that splitting the counter weight is key and distance is your friend .
Rear wheels are loaded , now I spent the money on the special tubes and had professionally filled with calcium . They weight 300lbs each . plus bolt on weights
The counter weight I use is off the back of the 3 pt hitch 3 bags of create in 2 5 gallon pails = 180 lbs but distance off the back make it do more for less .
20211010_143154.jpg

By splitting where you put the weight you split the forces on the axles . With strictly chassis weight , when ever you are unloaded all that weight is on the rear axles . By splitting the weight you reduce that . When loaded the the forces of weighted wheel will be pulling down on the axles while the chassis weight will be pushing down on the axle housing . If done correctly they cancel each other out reducing the load on the axles and housing .
Now there are many ways to achieve wheel weight and chassis weight . This is what I have done .
Now all that loader weight will be on that front axle . Sorry , can't remember what did you to to address that . ?

I won't have my weight split left to right, but it will be slung 24" behind the rear axle, 6 feet behind the front axle. So that's decent leverage.

One of my design goals is to have the tractor "100%" usable as a normal lawnmower. The loader will only be used occasionally, so I want to make the transition from "mower" to "loader" quick and painless. I have the rear tires loaded with RV antifreeze, and the vertical receiver shackles will remain installed on the machine all the time. So those changes are "permanent". But the loader assembly and valve will come completely off (in 3 to 5 minutes) and I'd like my counterweight to be similar. That's why I'm planning to use a big single weight slung from the 3 pt. I can back up to the weight, pin the 3pt arms onto the counterweight's steel lugs, and drive away, ready for loader duty.

I think the most "painful" part of loader transition will be installing a set of 2-link tire chains. I figure I'll need those any time I'm doing wet/muddy work for sure. But not if I just need to move something heavy, etc.

I say all that to say that I at least want to try going down this road of a quick/easy/removable concrete counterweight on the 3-pt. But I know full-well that it may not work out like I envision.

As for the front axle, that was the very first thing I addressed, building a new heavy duty front axle with timken bearing hubs. It all on my youtube channel for anyone who's curious.

Bob

[DavidBarkey]

@thebuildist Bob , a good point about it being a lawn mower for the most of the time . Mine is a full time tractor , never a mower . The one of the down sides to extra is trying to stop it . I had to put disk breaks on mine . Ya if you are not running lugs which a not good for mowing chains will be a must . Yes they can be a pain to in stall on loaded tires . How much weight did you get out of the RV fluid ?

[thebuildist]

This has been on my mind all night, and I've figured it out.

How can it be that I need such an expectedly large counterweight while at the same time the bucket was able to lift way more than expected without any counterweight? Those two things are in conflict.

So I've gone back through my mental process, and found a glaring logic error. It turns out I don't need nearly as large a counterweight as I said yesterday.

What I did was find the balance/tipping point, the amount of weight the bucket can lift before the back wheels come off the ground. It turns out to be very near 1000 lbs. (799 in the bucket, 36 inches from the front axle, plus 65 lbs lifting, 72 inches from the axle. 65lbs at 72 inches is equal to 195 lbs at 36 inches, so the tipping point is right around 994 lbs in the bucket.)

Then I calculated the torque effect of 994 lbs in the bucket and mentally said, "The weight on the rear needs to counteract that torque effect." and started figuring from there. But that's a false assumption: It takes 994 lbs in the bucket to achieve equilibrium. With 994 in the bucket, both sides are zero.

So the counterweight doesn't need to offset "zero plus 994". It only needs to offset "zero", plus add 500lbs to the rear axle. And the operator's weight helps as well.

I was actually calculating the counterweight that would be needed for TWO thousand lbs in the bucket, rather than ONE. Duh.

So 310 lbs will be plenty. Since my concrete is in 60 lb bags, I'll just mix up 5 bags and call it good.

So no messing around with big counterweights and little ones. A single 300 lb counterweight will be just fine for all purposes.

And I'm relieved.

Bob

[Timj]

Nice catch Bob, when the gears keep turning sometimes we get lucky and catch things before we start. it seemed like alot of weight, but I didn't really have a good comparison.
So my question is " did you sleep at all last night"?

[thebuildist]

Nice catch Bob, when the gears keep turning sometimes we get lucky and catch things before we start. it seemed like alot of weight, but I didn't really have a good comparison.
So my question is " did you sleep at all last night"?

One thing I don't fool around with is sleep! Time for bed is just that!

And I have a reminder/helper....



Bob

[DavidBarkey]

It is a good thing you are smart at that fancy math Bob @thebuildist I admire your abilities . I wanted to be a mechanical engineer when I was young , but was not good enough in school . Oh well I muddle through in my own way . lol If I tried to do the kind of math you are talking about , I would blow another gasket before I got the answer right . Me I did it the red neck way . Built the loader and then tried to pick something up . All I did was pick the rear wheels (apparently I am not enough counter balance ) . So had the tires loaded . Well that was better , but still not enough . So how much more do I need ? Start hanging weight off the 3 pt. untill reached a desired result . turned out to be about 200lbs in my case . 3 x 60lbs plus steel frame . Close enough .

[thebuildist]

Yours is the only way that always works!

I really appreciate your kind words. I just really enjoy playing with this kind of stuff, figuring out the puzzles, overcoming the challenges along the way. It's how I unwind.

I'm really blessed to have a lot of good things in my life, including the time and health to get to do stuff like this.

Bob