Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

Just another crazy thought to ponder on. Maybe just a ramble, I might have to much time on my hands to be thinking of these things. Should be cutting wood. Hehe.

Any way, my son and I were chatting the other day about all the stuff we’ve modified over the years. Good and bad results. So he sad, we’ve never modified a mowing deck ! I said no I guess not. So I got to thinking and decks seem to plug up some with grass. Some decks are better than others to get rid of the grass. Most decks have the exit part enlarged as it goes across the deck so the grass will flow out better. Say in a Case 48” mower the right blade throws into the middle blade, the right and middle blade, more so the middle blade then throw into the left blade, which then throws most of the grass out. So my crazy thinking is, if the middle blade was spun a bit faster than the right blade, and the left blade spun a bit faster than the middle blade, do you think this would help to get rid of the grass.
I can’t see it cutting any different by the change in blade speeds.
What do you think.


Noel

Propane57 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:13 am Just another crazy thought to ponder on. Maybe just a ramble, I might have to much time on my hands to be thinking of these things. Should be cutting wood. Hehe.

Any way, my son and I were chatting the other day about all the stuff we’ve modified over the years. Good and bad results. So he sad, we’ve never modified a mowing deck ! I said no I guess not. So I got to thinking and decks seem to plug up some with grass. Some decks are better than others to get rid of the grass. Most decks have the exit part enlarged as it goes across the deck so the grass will flow out better. Say in a Case 48” mower the right blade throws into the middle blade, the right and middle blade, more so the middle blade then throw into the left blade, which then throws most of the grass out. So my crazy thinking is, if the middle blade was spun a bit faster than the right blade, and the left blade spun a bit faster than the middle blade, do you think this would help to get rid of the grass.
I can’t see it cutting any different by the change in blade speeds.
What do you think.


Noel

I think for our wives we are Not neighbours . Oh we could get into a lot of trouble together . There is of course only one way to find out . Start with 2 identical decks and change the pulleys on one and try them on the same tractor on the same lawn on the same day. Me I want to build from scratch a 52" rear discharge for the BOF.

Dave

Be fun to do Dave. Hehe.

Noel.

I will have to do some researching deck specifications again but the blade tip speeds are government regulated. That could be to minimize projectile launch and travel.

A rear discharge deck has always been my dream. I have thought of modifying a case deck to do rear discharge.

Spike

Interesting thought, Noel but I wonder if the stepped increase would have an advantage over just increasing all evenly? the amount of material would be the same but would clear quicker.
Blade tip speed has been increased on newer mowers to improve cut quality. There has been a number of threads about using a drive pulley from a smaller deck on a 48" to increase speed. We'll have to see what Spike comes up with and how it compares.
I have some issues with plugging my RM deck in heavy/thick grass, mostly due to the shoot deflector not clearing. I've seen alot of decks with the deflector removed but if you launch something, you may regret it.

That wood is not going to cut itself.

I replaced my worn out RM48 deck drive spindle with an RM38 drive spindle. Basically the deck drive pulley is smaller which increases the blade speed. In deep grass the drive and internal drive belts would slip and eventually wear out if I didn't slow down enough. With the RM38 spindle, my deck cuts great bit if the grass is deep enough or thick enough I can overwhelm my 16HP vanguard engine. I don't know if I could overwhelm the engine as easily with the RM48 spindle because the belts would slip.

Below are three pictures of the RM series deck. The first is the standard belt configuration. The second is how I modified my belt drive. This worked well for a while but the deck drive belt and internal drive belt would still slip if pushed hard enough. I ended up replacing the center spindle as suggested by experienced people on the old forum. The third picture is how I would modify the belt drive if I did this again. Basically I would shift the belt tensioner down and to the left even more than in the photo. This would increase the center pulley's belt wrap.

Timj wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:24 pm I have some issues with plugging my RM deck in heavy/thick grass, mostly due to the shoot deflector not clearing. I've seen alot of decks with the deflector removed but if you launch something, you may regret it.

Are you clogging your hydravac boot or just the deck chute? Are you having issues with your deck motor and or hydraulic fluid heating up and thinning out?

My hydravac boot clogs too. Its typically when I'm in deep thick grass and my little vanguard motor cannot keep up.

MattA wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:52 pm

Timj wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:24 pm I have some issues with plugging my RM deck in heavy/thick grass, mostly due to the shoot deflector not clearing. I've seen alot of decks with the deflector removed but if you launch something, you may regret it.

Are you clogging your hydravac boot or just the deck chute? Are you having issues with your deck motor and or hydraulic fluid heating up and thinning out?

My hydravac boot clogs too. Its typically when I'm in deep thick grass and my little vanguard motor cannot keep up.

I don't have much trouble with my Hydra vac boot plugging, over loading with white pine needles and when the bags or trailer are full and everything plugs.
My shoot plugs when I get in really thick stuff and there's no place for the grass to go. Shh, don't tell anyone, I usually keep blowing the cuttings inward, so I'm recutting alot and I'm blowing into tall/ uncut grass. Ya I don't follow rules well.
My old deck motor would stall, the one I put in last year from the snow caster will slip the belt in the deck.

Timj wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:27 pm

MattA wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:52 pm

Timj wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:24 pm I have some issues with plugging my RM deck in heavy/thick grass, mostly due to the shoot deflector not clearing. I've seen alot of decks with the deflector removed but if you launch something, you may regret it.

Are you clogging your hydravac boot or just the deck chute? Are you having issues with your deck motor and or hydraulic fluid heating up and thinning out?

My hydravac boot clogs too. Its typically when I'm in deep thick grass and my little vanguard motor cannot keep up.

I don't have much trouble with my Hydra vac boot plugging, over loading with white pine needles and when the bags or trailer are full and everything plugs.
My shoot plugs when I get in really thick stuff and there's no place for the grass to go. Shh, don't tell anyone, I usually keep blowing the cuttings inward, so I'm recutting alot and I'm blowing into tall/ uncut grass. Ya I don't follow rules well.
My old deck motor would stall, the one I put in last year from the snow caster will slip the belt in the deck.

I've been running Gates Hi-Power II belts. Seem to work good for the past few years. The OEM belts I've gotten from several different dealers seem old and dried out.

MattA wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:50 pm

Timj wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:27 pm

MattA wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:52 pm

Are you clogging your hydravac boot or just the deck chute? Are you having issues with your deck motor and or hydraulic fluid heating up and thinning out?

My hydravac boot clogs too. Its typically when I'm in deep thick grass and my little vanguard motor cannot keep up.

I don't have much trouble with my Hydra vac boot plugging, over loading with white pine needles and when the bags or trailer are full and everything plugs.
My shoot plugs when I get in really thick stuff and there's no place for the grass to go. Shh, don't tell anyone, I usually keep blowing the cuttings inward, so I'm recutting alot and I'm blowing into tall/ uncut grass. Ya I don't follow rules well.
My old deck motor would stall, the one I put in last year from the snow caster will slip the belt in the deck.

I've been running Gates Hi-Power II belts. Seem to work good for the past few years. The OEM belts I've gotten from several different dealers seem old and dried out.

I run the same belts on my stuff with great success . I get mine from the local Carquest dealer , they treat me well there .

Dave

As I don't have one, and didn't find a concrete answer quickly. What is the diameter of the clutch pulley on a Case or Ingersoll and has the size varied?
Tim

In my extensive research a while ago putting a 7” pulley on the Jack shaft / driveshaft on the Case 224 snow caster, I found that the engine pto pulley was 6” or 6.5” , if this is the one you are referring to. I believe it was 6” thou Tim. It’s the same on my Case 446 too. Now, both my tractors have electric clutches, so I don’t know if they are a different size if they were manual pho’s.


Noel

Interesting thought, Noel but I wonder if the stepped increase would have an advantage over just increasing all evenly?



I guess my thinking was Tim, that if the outside one was spinning faster, it could handle its own grass, plus take some from the other two. And same with centre one of it was speeded up faster than the right blade but slower than the left blade. It could handle its own and take some from the right blade. Kind of like the middle one is a booster and the left blade was extra booster. Your thought would make it throw a little farther, I think.

I believe I’m rambling again. Hehe.

Noel

I think it'll work, I suspect you're thinking along the right lines.

But I have counter proposal for you to chew on.

What is actually throwing the clippings out is airflow. The blades have a fan/propeller twist to them that induces air to be sucked upward from the lawn, producing pressure at the "ceiling" face of the deck. Since the side discharge slot is the only opening at the "ceiling" level, the pressure pushes the air out at that slot. And the air carries clippings with it.

I suppose there's at least a little centrifugal force involved, especially on the outermost blade, but my sense is that the airflow is where the real action is at.

You're right that increasing the blade speed should increase the airflow. But I think that you're talking about the wrong blade(s)!

I think you need to increase the airflow, the pressure, at the innermost blade the most. Then the middle blade a little bit, . and leave the discharge blade alone.

If you increase the speed of the discharge blade and middle blade, I think you'll force the innermost blade to essentially just mulch, because its lower pressure discharge air won't be able to push into the higher pressure of the middle blade chamber.

So I say you increase the innermost blade speed by, say, 20%. And increase the middle blade speed by 10%. And leave the discharge blade alone.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it

Bob

Well now, that’s a new thought to chew on for sure.

Thanks.

Noel

So, I’ve thought about what Bob said, and I’ll give my 1 cents worth here on this this topic. Could be a good ramble.

Air flow is mentioned. In my thought, my blade closest to the exit is the one mostly speeded up. In Bobs, it’s the blade farthest away from the exit. My thinking is that my idea would create a vacuum in the deck to help suck clippings out. Bobs idea would create extra pressure in the deck at the blade farthest away from the exit. In order for that to work, the exit would have to be enlarged to allow for more exit air flow. Or the clippings could start coming out from under the deck because it can’t get out the exit.
And do not the blades do the throwing of the clippings out the exit along with the air pressure. When you clean your deck, grass builds up on the bottom sides as well as the ceiling. And especially where two blades meet.

Not a bad ramble, even if I do say so myself.

Any way, no wood work today. Son is getting rock dust for his driveway, so the Ferguson tractor and or the MF 14 will be on duty to level the rock dust. But they are so good at spreading it, it won’t take much leveling. And I’m getting my caliber put on today too. Hopefully.

Have a good day gentlemen.

Noel