Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

I'm thinking of modifying the mower deck to accept easier to find bearings such as the 6004-2RS. Thoughts?

I'll return with details

Eugene,

The bearings are not at all hard to source here in the states, I can supply several bearing numbers that will work without modification if you would like.

Bob

myerslawnandgarden wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:13 pm Eugene,

The bearings are not at all hard to source here in the states, I can supply several bearing numbers that will work without modification if you would like.

Bob

The Z9504 bearings are at least double the price of easier to find bearings. On top of that shipping from the US to Canada has become outrageous. Then we get hit by a customs charge. A few years ago I was buying lots of things on eBay from the US. Now the customs and shipping charges are prohibiting. I don't know what the cause is and don't mean to make this issue political. I really don't have an idea, but I know now I almost get nothing from the US. It's really sad, I order more from china and amazon.

The 6004 bore is 20mm, a little larger than the Z9504 which is 19.2mm. The OD is 42mm for the 6004 and a little more than 45mm for the Z9504. I was thinking that the slightly smaller 6004 can fit with an inner and outer bushing. Realistically I am starting to doubt it's a good idea even for someone with a lathe.

I am in the same boat a Eugen . I can't afford to buy most thing from the US. Like he said , customs, duty , taxes, shipping and the exchange multiplies the price by 4 times . To further the problem we are having , the supply chain of parts is still in shamble due to Covid . If someone could come up with a way to get good across the border without breaking the bank , we would gladly start buying from our American brothers again .

Dave

I understand the additional expenses that you guys face when buying parts from the US, are there not bearing supply companies in Canada where you can just walk in and purchase the 9504RST at a reasonable price? The ones that I offer on our website for $3.75 ea. I pay $2.25 for in lots of 100. 40% profit margin but that is diluted by the inbound shipping charges, 100 bearings weighs quite a lot.

Bob

myerslawnandgarden wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:13 pm I understand the additional expenses that you guys face when buying parts from the US, are there not bearing supply companies in Canada where you can just walk in and purchase the 9504RST at a reasonable price? The ones that I offer on our website for $3.75 ea. I pay $2.25 for in lots of 100. 40% profit margin but that is diluted by the inbound shipping charges, 100 bearings weighs quite a lot.

Bob

Sent you a PM Bob. I think $3.75 is a reasonable price, hopefully shipping isn't a killer

I don't know of any bearing supply company around where I live, unfortunately. Rural area There might be some in Toronto, but I don't know that either. Maybe Spike has a good source?

Auto parts suppliers and machine shops may have access to them too.
Sucks that you guys get screwed like that.

myerslawnandgarden wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:13 pm I understand the additional expenses that you guys face when buying parts from the US, are there not bearing supply companies in Canada where you can just walk in and purchase the 9504RST at a reasonable price? The ones that I offer on our website for $3.75 ea. I pay $2.25 for in lots of 100. 40% profit margin but that is diluted by the inbound shipping charges, 100 bearings weighs quite a lot.

Bob

Not many up our way anymore and the few I buy from online are out of stock on so many seals and bearings it is not funny. What the do have is the bottom line Chinese stuff at a high $ . It is cheaper most of the time to get higher end Chinese /Japanese stuff right from there warehouses in Canada . Can't always get what I need , so sometimes have to south of the border like my last purchase for a few engine parts . $68 worth of parts is going to cost me $195 and change , maybe more if I get dinged duty at the border my side .
Dave

I might get the bearings from Bob, in part to support people here too.

I am though, interested in maybe trying one of the following two options on one of my old decks, just because.

Let's see.

Option 1.
Get 10x 6004-2RS bearings for $23 from amazon, free shipping. Dimensions are 20x42x12 mm or 0.787x1.65x0.47 in. The Z9504 is 19x45x15.5 mm or 0.75x1.78x0.61 in. The first two dimensions are ID and OD respectively. So the inner bushing would need to be 1mm (0.037in) thick, and the exterior bushing about 3mm (0.13in) thick on the outside.

So, 1/2 inch schedule 40 steel pipe has IDxODxWT 0.622x0.840x0.109 inch dimensions, just good to turn in a lathe the interior bushing out of it.

1-1/2 inch schedule 40 steel pipe is 1.61x1.9x0.145 inch, which is good for the outer bushing.

Option 2.
Get 10x 6204-2RS from amazon, at $21 free shipping. Dimensions are 20x47x14 mm. Do the inner bushing like above, and enlarge the spindle housing on the lathe by 2mm from 45mm to 47mm.

This is the housing.

Using USPS 1st Class Package International, shipping is $21.25 for up to 2 pounds. You can ship 7 bearings in a padded mailer and be just under that weight. Of course you still have the currency exchange rate and any import taxes to consider, the post office usually isn't too expensive on the brokerage.

Bob

Thank you Bob, you have the best price on these bearings, including shipping and brokerage.

The cast iron housing turns nicely. This should be interesting.

I thought I saw a post by thebuildist but it's no longer here. His preference was for option 1 which keeps the deck stock. After some thinking I prefer the option which allows for a larger size bearing for the obvious reason that it stands to take the stress better then the smaller bearing. I respect the effort to keep things stock, but in this case I am inclined to give a higher priority to functionality. Plus I have several decks that came with parts tractors. If I had only one deck I'd get the original size bearings and not fool around with any mods. In fact I have a deck with really good original everything, almost new bearings too.

These machines that I have are not only used around the property, but also a vehicle for me to explore ideas.

Another thing going for the 6204 bearing is that it is used in several other decks by other tractor makes. It gives it more credibility in this application.

Great idea about the Loctite though, I should've thought of that

Not sure about the flange. You cannot have a flange on both sides.

I tried turning some pipe I had lying around, and it turned really nicely, got it to almost 0.75 ID and a little more than 20mm OD. Not sure how to give it a nice bore finish, I don't have a reamer. Perhaps it's not so important since it'll be glued with Loctite to the shaft and for that a little rougher finish is not a bad thing.

You're right, that's what I posted. but I was responding to the post at the bottom of page 1, where it wasn't clear yet what direction you were going. As soon as I hit "submit" it took me to the end of the discussion, with your nice picture of turning the housing in the lathe.

I thought it was kind of dumb, after you've already posted that picture, for to say, "I don't think you should modify the housing." Duh.

So since it was a mistake, I simply deleted it.

And you're right, the larger bearing will be stronger, and should wear longer.

I actually found your post useful, fortunately I read it . Good point with the loctite.

BTW the housing I turned was not from a good deck. It came in a bucket of broken deck parts. Bolts cut off in it. But I was curious if it can be set straight in the small lathe chuck I got and if I was able to turn it decently accurate to spec. With the inner bushing turning also tested now I am more encouraged now to proceed with option 2.

thebuildist wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:07 pm You're right, that's what I posted. but I was responding to the post at the bottom of page 1, where it wasn't clear yet what direction you were going. As soon as I hit "submit" it took me to the end of the discussion, with your nice picture of turning the housing in the lathe.

I thought it was kind of dumb, after you've already posted that picture, for to say, "I don't think you should modify the housing." Duh.

So since it was a mistake, I simply deleted it.

And you're right, the larger bearing will be stronger, and should wear longer.

You have to be pretty fast to get anything past Eugen.

ÀH guy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:05 pm
You have to be pretty fast to get anything past Eugen.

Eugen wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:29 pm

ÀH guy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:05 pm
You have to be pretty fast to get anything past Eugen.

I read it too, it was a good post, and then it was gone. Poof vanished into thin air.

For laughs more than anything I ordered a pack of ten 6204-2RS. They came today. Or did they?

Wouldn't you prefer the steel shielded bearings since that's what J I Case used when built? Just curious.....

Bob

myerslawnandgarden wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:51 am Wouldn't you prefer the steel shielded bearings since that's what J I Case used when built? Just curious.....

Bob

It's a good point Bob, but if I wanted to stay with the original type I would get the original bearings. I'm actually thinking that the RS seal is better in this application, with all due respect to the J I Case engineers. The steel shield is meant to protect against larger particles, and always has an opening between the inner race and the shield. That offers no protection against dust and water. However, the way the spindle and housing is built on the mower deck should allow no large particles. If anything makes it into the housing, it'll be dust and water. The RS seal has more friction than the steel shield because it touches the inner race, but that should not matter here. As I said, other newer design decks use the 6204-2RS bearing, so that's a confirmation too.

Another advantage of the 2RS seal is that one can remove it carefully and pack the bearings with good quality grease. This is not possible with the steel shielded bearings, because the shield is stamped permanently to the outer race.

As I said before, I have one deck with original and new bearings, so what I'm doing here is a bit of exploration which might help others, since the modification is really easy. I won't, but perhaps someone else can offer this modification service to the community, if it turns out to give more life to the deck on the same set of bearings than with the original ones.

Just as a point of interest, the factory bearings that you mention are now the 2RS style bearings. The part number did not change, still C28971.

Bob

myerslawnandgarden wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:57 pm Just as a point of interest, the factory bearings that you mention are now the 2RS style bearings. The part number did not change, still C28971.

Bob

Then I'm not really chasing wild geese here. Not entirely at least.

For an extra $10 I these which I like better.

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:56 pm For an extra $10 I these which I like better.



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I keep those exact bearing in stock . Buy them 10-20 at a time as they fit many late model deck spindles .
Dave

@DavidBarkey do you ever open them up and pack them with better grease? I know some people say these bearings have neither enough nor good grease.

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:37 am @DavidBarkey do you ever open them up and pack them with better grease? I know some people say these bearings have neither enough nor good grease.

Allllllllllways , You have to be very careful to not damage the seal . My experience has been that ether low quality grease or insufficient grease in them. Have had great luck with even the cheapest bearings doing this .
Dave