Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

Took the chance before I put the AHRM48 deck on for mowing season to swap out the hydraulic motor with the one from my new to me AHSB48 snow caster. This will allow me to test the motor from the caster and also see if it performs better than the motor that was in the deck.
The current motor is getting tired. It doesn't perform like it once did. These hydraulic motors (C36963)are no longer available. They were proprietary and somewhat unique, making finding a replacement tough.
This will give me a little more time to explore finding a replacement or rebuilding.

Looking forward to the test!

Got the deck put back together and mounted on the 4118 this afternoon, so I took it out and mowed some grass. Could have waited a few days but I could see where I cut and it will get the neighbors going to get theirs cut.

The new hydraulic motor is definitely better than the old one. It doesn't stall out when climbing the hill.

Hopefully can get a few hundred hours out of this motor. Going to still pursue finding a suitable replacement.
Tim

What is the life span of these hydraulic deck motors?

Spike

What is the life span of these hydraulic deck motors?

Spike

Spike188 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:24 pm What is the life span of these hydraulic deck motors?

Spike

I don't know if there is any good answer. My old one probably has 8-900 hours on it. I have 1220hrs total on tractor. It still works but not as good as it should. I've read of failed ones with only 300 hours.
Ingersoll used a few different manufacturers of these motors, Webster, Ultra, Barnes. I don't know if there is any variation of life to brand.
Tim

I have a HRM48H which is for a 3pt. I got a excellent deal on it but it has been setting in a building since I purchased it. It needed a case drain so when I was plumbing up the hydraulic oil filter I added a connection for it. I believe the hydraulic motor is probably similar to the AHRM48 from what I see in the manual. Everything seemed to be there even the belt but I have no idea what condition the motor is in. This is the next shop project tractor related.
Keep the Peace
Harry

Harry wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:23 am I have a HRM48H which is for a 3pt. I got a excellent deal on it but it has been setting in a building since I purchased it. It needed a case drain so when I was plumbing up the hydraulic oil filter I added a connection for it. I believe the hydraulic motor is probably similar to the AHRM48 from what I see in the manual. Everything seemed to be there even the belt but I have no idea what condition the motor is in. This is the next shop project tractor related.
Keep the Peace
Harry

I believe they were the same motor. Ingersoll just changed the pulley size for the AH 3pt model to compensate for the higher hydraulic flow of the AH tractors and not over speed the mower.
Let us know as your project progresses.
Tim

I have heard that a zero turn mowers with 2000 hours on drive motors are nearing end of life.
This sad Ingersoll has 850 hours on it. It is going to take a lot of time and parts to get it back to drivable. It will be hard to justify putting the time and energy into the repairs if the deck is not serviceable.

Right now the energy needs to be applied to the 646 backhoe.

Spike

Spike, I truly understand your thoughts, unfortunately I don't think you'll be able to know the condition of the deck motor without running it on the tractor. If you get it done and your motor is tired, you won't like mowing up your hill.

You could hook it up to one of your other tractors to make sure it turns and doesn't leak oil, but your flow won't be high enough to know for sure. Finding another All Hydraulic owner near by probably slim chance.

Putting that poor tractor back together for just a non "mower" may not have many plusses for you. Might give your Roper blower a boost in Hydraulic performance? Power steering.

I've been trying to figure out a reasonable replacement, but it hasn't been easy. There has been a lot of threads on these motors on other forums, but no answers for a replacement for the NLA OEM. Buying used attachments to get a good motor is an expensive gamble. There's been a used ahrm48 deck for sale on marketplace for a while for $900.

I think you have some time to figure out your path while you finish the 646.
Tim

Tim, I had never thought about putting the Burco blower on the 4118. The blower would need a pressure relief valve added but that would be a quick fix. You have given me more reason to work on putting the dishevel tractor back into shape.

Spike

Spike188 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:14 am Tim, I had never thought about putting the Burco blower on the 4118. The blower would need a pressure relief valve added but that would be a quick fix. You have given me more reason to work on putting the dishevel tractor back into shape.

Spike

Hadn't thought about the relief valve, but if the 2800psi system one is too much.

I would sure like to follow you and see that sad tractor brought back to life, but I don't want to push you into a project either. You probably don't need any help in that department.

I think there's a answer to a motor for the deck out there, just need to find it. I've found a couple of hydraulic motors I think would work but shaft length is too short. My last resort thought was to make a bracket and mount the motor on top of the deck.
Tim

Yesterday I brought in my rear mowing deck. I took a pic and disassembled most of it. I will be testing the hydraulic motor on the back of my 646 PTO later this week to see if it turns and if it leaks oil.

Keep the Peace
Harry

Thought I'd throw a pic of the top view of the AHRM48 with covers removed in.

So at the end of the train it still has a belt. Where does the motor hook into the mechanism here?

Eugen wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:23 pm So at the end of the train it still has a belt. Where does the motor hook into the mechanism here?

Bottom of the picture, follow the hoses under the square plate with the pulley in the center of it. The motor is under that pulley.


Gordy

On the 3pt HRM48H model the hydraulic motor sets in the front with a small belt between the center pulley and the motor pulley. A long belt then connects the spindle pulleys to the drive pulley which is the center pulley and there is only one idler pulley. I'll post a pic after I get it back together.

Keep the Peace
Harry

In many ways you can see why the All Hydraulic tractors didn't pan out well for Ingersoll, and why they were only made for two years. Sticking with them and working the bugs out would have probably made it a better system but would have been costly and probably not cost effective for them.

While just hooking up hoses was quick and easy, it only replaced the clutch and main drive belt and adjustment. They were sold as "beltless" but they still needed them in the mowers.

Short hydraulic motor life and performance issues left many disappointed. That being said, mine worked very well for many years. I didn't have any trouble with thick grass or even up hill with the Hydra vac also on. My wife ran it for her lawn care business for a few years too. It still works but you have to slow down in the thick grass and the blades will stall out when coming up hill.

I believe that a contributing factor in loss of blade speed on hills has to do with how the system is designed. The oil goes to the PTO valve and deck motor first, if the Hydra-vac is on then that, then back to the TCV then to the drive motor. The resistance/higher pressure of the drive motor slows the flow of oil through the hydraulic motor in deck. As the deck motor wears it becomes more of an issue.

As oil temperature increases, performance decreases, but this an issue with all hydraulic driven systems.

There are good things about the All Hydraulic's that would have been nice if Ingersoll had worked into a couple models built for more demanding use. Like the higher output hydraulic pump and the larger front mounted oil cooler. Also, the two section hydraulic pump with dedicated pump for the power steering.

All that being said, they are what we have to work with, and I do really like my All Hydraulic.
Tim

Well Tim,

I made the switch! I will get the good out of the other site as best I can, and move toward this one. Are we saying the motor in the AH 3 point deck is the same motor as the AH RM48? If so I know where a spare may be hiding!

Bill Moyer

I guess I should go up top and introduce myself!

Bill, I have read that they used the same motor in a couple of different threads. They just changed the pulley size, 7" for standard, 6.4 for AH. I have not confirmed it. I'll get in the manuals and see if I can find anything out.
My only thought is the three point mowers were made before and after the AH tractors, so the motor may be lower displacement to match the regular tractors. Definitely have to look into this.

If you can get some info off that motor it would be great.

Harry has a thread here on his hrm48h, we'll have to see if we can find the displacement of that Ultra motor.
Tim

Seabee wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:50 pm Well Tim,

I made the switch! I will get the good out of the other site as best I can, and move toward this one. Are we saying the motor in the AH 3 point deck is the same motor as the AH RM48? If so I know where a spare may be hiding!

Bill Moyer

I guess I should go up top and introduce myself!

You don't have to, but why not throw up a quick little intro.

ÀH guy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:32 pm Bill, I have read that they used the same motor in a couple of different threads. They just changed the pulley size, 7" for standard, 6.4 for AH. I have not confirmed it. I'll get in the manuals and see if I can find anything out.
My only thought is the three point mowers were made before and after the AH tractors, so the motor may be lower displacement to match the regular tractors. Definitely have to look into this.

If you can get some info off that motor it would be great.

Harry has a thread here on his hrm48h, we'll have to see if we can find the displacement of that Ultra motor.
Tim

Did some home work and confirmed the pulley size difference between the, AHRM48H and the HRM48H.

There is a ton of mixed information out there on the hydraulic motors used on the Case and Ingersoll attachments.
I think I'm going to try to put some of this information together and start a new thread on hydraulic attachment motors. That will leave this thread dedicated to the AHRM decks.
Tim

Tim, is it possible to put a electric clutch and a belt drive deck on keeping the rest of the hydraulics working?

Timj wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:22 pm Took the chance before I put the AHRM48 deck on for mowing season to swap out the hydraulic motor with the one from my new to me AHSB48 snow caster. This will allow me to test the motor from the caster and also see if it performs better than the motor that was in the deck.
The current motor is getting tired. It doesn't perform like it once did. These hydraulic motors (C36963)are no longer available. They were proprietary and somewhat unique, making finding a replacement tough.
This will give me a little more time to explore finding a replacement or rebuilding.

TLD89 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:26 am Tim, is it possible to put a electric clutch and a belt drive deck on keeping the rest of the hydraulics working?

Timj wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:22 pm Took the chance before I put the AHRM48 deck on for mowing season to swap out the hydraulic motor with the one from my new to me AHSB48 snow caster. This will allow me to test the motor from the caster and also see if it performs better than the motor that was in the deck.
The current motor is getting tired. It doesn't perform like it once did. These hydraulic motors (C36963)are no longer available. They were proprietary and somewhat unique, making finding a replacement tough.
This will give me a little more time to explore finding a replacement or rebuilding.

@TLD89 I don't think there is enough room to get the clutch in and the belt routed. The larger oil cooler and the hoses going from it to the oil filter really take up the area where the belt would run.

The ahrm48 deck got some new "hot wheels" today. It was starting to cut a little short in the highest setting. These were the original wheels, I can't believe they didn't last longer? surprisingly the bolt is worn more than the hole in the wheel.
Tim

Tim - I grease my bolts yearly. My RM48 deck was probably built around the same time as your AHRM48 and it had the same issue with the bolts from the previous owner. Did you stick with the 5" wheels or change to the 6" wheels? I run the 6".

MattA wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:02 pm Tim - I grease my bolts yearly. My RM48 deck was probably built around the same time as your AHRM48 and it had the same issue with the bolts from the previous owner. Did you stick with the 5" wheels or change to the 6" wheels? I run the 6".

They are the 5" wheels, I just ordered off the parts #. I was expecting the bolts to be less worn and the plastic more. I have never greased them, I don't know if the dealer use to do it when it went in for its annual or not. We live in sand country, its actually pretty amazing they lasted 1/2 that long. I would guess close to 1000 hours. I thought about sleaving them and putting in new bolts, but really I'm not that cheap.
Our New Holland had zerks in the wheels but most pulled out of the plastic.

Here is a link to the 6" gauge wheels. I've got my deck set to about 2.5".
https://www.casegardentractorparts.com/c2gawhmode.html