Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

Hi gang!
That fella with the 3pt hitch got my wheels turning.

I have a sleeve hitch, and for the moldboard plow and tiller I can't say that I needed down pressure. However, this year I scored a cultivator and a ripper.

Question: is there a way to get proper down pressure on the sleeve hitch? I know that if the long opening on the bar is closed you get some down pressure, but the opening is only about 2.5" long, it's hard to believe that would give you much down movement.

3pt hitches are very rare around here, so it would have to be another project which is quite unrealistic for me atm.

The sleeve hitch is not good at applying down pressure. There is that slot in the lift linkage and that slot is there to protect the rocker shaft that rotates to move the sleeve hitch. The geometry of the linkage is such that bad things happen when the sleeve hitch encounters too much force. It should be fine to weight the attachment in most cases.

The 3 point has different geometry and does apply down pressure quite nicely.

Thanks Steve, I guess I can't avoid this project then.

Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:38 am Hi gang!
That fella with the 3pt hitch got my wheels turning.

I have a sleeve hitch, and for the moldboard plow and tiller I can't say that I needed down pressure. However, this year I scored a cultivator and a ripper.

Question: is there a way to get proper down pressure on the sleeve hitch? I know that if the long opening on the bar is closed you get some down pressure, but the opening is only about 2.5" long, it's hard to believe that would give you much down movement.

3pt hitches are very rare around here, so it would have to be another project which is quite unrealistic for me atm.

Add weight to it until it can't pick up anymore . Then take a little away . Gravity is your down pressure .
Dave

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:23 pm Add weight to it until it can't pick up anymore . Then take a little away . Gravity is your down pressure .
Dave

Which I do Dave, but you have hydraulic down pressure on your tractor hitch and I am jelous of your tractor so I want it too!

For instance, I have parts for putting together a rippe/middle buster. When you hit thick roots the torque of the tractor is not enough to rip them. What people do is lift the ripper thus cutting the roots. Then push it deep again, and continue. Looks like I can't avoid a 3pth.

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:39 am

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:23 pm Add weight to it until it can't pick up anymore . Then take a little away . Gravity is your down pressure .
Dave

Which I do Dave, but you have hydraulic down pressure on your tractor hitch and I am jelous of your tractor so I want it too!

For instance, I have parts for putting together a rippe/middle buster. When you hit thick roots the torque of the tractor is not enough to rip them. What people do is lift the ripper thus cutting the roots. Then push it deep again, and continue. Looks like I can't avoid a 3pth.

Reality is, that I seldom use the down pressure other than to put the rear weight into the ground as a anchor. The tiller is in float , disks are tow behind , and the hiller is down pressure to a preset height stop but could float if put weight on it . I have a modified middle buster as a potato picker and it again pulls it self down to preset stop . The biggest advantage to the 3 pt is adjustable of height from side to side .

Dave

For clarity, the design of the sleeve hitch is to prevent down pressure. You really should rely on gravity.

Trace the industry back a ways and there is ample discussion of tractors rolling over backward using 2 point draft arms ... the 3 point hitch was the actual solution. This the apply point above the tractor axle, it can prevent wheel lift from the implement getting snagged in the ground.

I recommend stay with the float in the sleeve hitch, using gravity for the implement, or if you really have an application needing down pressure, then trade up to a 3 point.


Brian

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:05 am
Reality is, that I seldom use the down pressure other than to put the rear weight into the ground as a anchor. The tiller is in float , disks are tow behind , and the hiller is down pressure to a preset height stop but could float if put weight on it . I have a modified middle buster as a potato picker and it again pulls it self down to preset stop . The biggest advantage to the 3 pt is adjustable of height from side to side .

Dave

So I'm not missing a lot of real practical stuff. Sometimes it bothers me a little that the tiller goes deeper on the lh side, which with a 3 point hitch I could adjust for. But I can't say that the garden suffered in any way.

I’m gunna do a little late rambling here on this one. My tractor I use for gardening is a LGT 100 Ford aka Grunt. All manual lift. No down pressure at all. My Plow doesn’t need down pressure. It pulls its self in to a preset depth. My tandem disks have places on it to set cider blocks. I have blocks on the front set, my cultivator has one block on it. My middle buster Plow needs weight on it to work, but none on it so I use my foot to push on the lift lever to give some down pressure. But with a sleeve hitch it’s hard to get any amount of down pressure because of the way it’s made and operated. The other thing is, a garden tractor can only pull so much. So if you go to deep you won’t be going any where. You could mount a hydraulic cylinder on the back of the tractor to operate the sleeve hitch.
There now, another good ramble.

Noel

Propane57 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 4:55 am I’m gunna do a little late rambling here on this one. My tractor I use for gardening is a LGT 100 Ford aka Grunt. All manual lift. No down pressure at all. My Plow doesn’t need down pressure. It pulls its self in to a preset depth. My tandem disks have places on it to set cider blocks. I have blocks on the front set, my cultivator has one block on it. My middle buster Plow needs weight on it to work, but none on it so I use my foot to push on the lift lever to give some down pressure. But with a sleeve hitch it’s hard to get any amount of down pressure because of the way it’s made and operated. The other thing is, a garden tractor can only pull so much. So if you go to deep you won’t be going any where. You could mount a hydraulic cylinder on the back of the tractor to operate the sleeve hitch.
There now, another good ramble.

Noel

Yes , you can and run a diverter valve like some do with the 3 pts to operate it . At that point you might as well build your own like this one .
https://youtu.be/ETN5M0X27gk

Dave

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:54 am

Propane57 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 4:55 am I’m gunna do a little late rambling here on this one. My tractor I use for gardening is a LGT 100 Ford aka Grunt. All manual lift. No down pressure at all. My Plow doesn’t need down pressure. It pulls its self in to a preset depth. My tandem disks have places on it to set cider blocks. I have blocks on the front set, my cultivator has one block on it. My middle buster Plow needs weight on it to work, but none on it so I use my foot to push on the lift lever to give some down pressure. But with a sleeve hitch it’s hard to get any amount of down pressure because of the way it’s made and operated. The other thing is, a garden tractor can only pull so much. So if you go to deep you won’t be going any where. You could mount a hydraulic cylinder on the back of the tractor to operate the sleeve hitch.
There now, another good ramble.

Noel

Yes , you can and run a diverter valve like some do with the 3 pts to operate it . At that point you might as well build your own like this one .
https://youtu.be/ETN5M0X27gk

Dave

But if you're going to put the effort into building something that nice why not just make it a 3pth?

Just some thoughts I had. Hehe more ramblin.

Noel

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:54 am

Propane57 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 4:55 am I’m gunna do a little late rambling here on this one. My tractor I use for gardening is a LGT 100 Ford aka Grunt. All manual lift. No down pressure at all. My Plow doesn’t need down pressure. It pulls its self in to a preset depth. My tandem disks have places on it to set cider blocks. I have blocks on the front set, my cultivator has one block on it. My middle buster Plow needs weight on it to work, but none on it so I use my foot to push on the lift lever to give some down pressure. But with a sleeve hitch it’s hard to get any amount of down pressure because of the way it’s made and operated. The other thing is, a garden tractor can only pull so much. So if you go to deep you won’t be going any where. You could mount a hydraulic cylinder on the back of the tractor to operate the sleeve hitch.
There now, another good ramble.

Noel

Yes , you can and run a diverter valve like some do with the 3 pts to operate it . At that point you might as well build your own like this one .
https://youtu.be/ETN5M0X27gk

Dave

That would be a great system for me Dave, because all my attachments are for a sleeve hitch. 3 point would be neat and better because of all the adjustments that can be done. That cylinder on the sleeve hitch would have the same down pressure as a 3 point.


Noel

Propane57 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:02 pm
That would be a great system for me Dave, because all my attachments are for a sleeve hitch. 3 point would be neat and better because of all the adjustments that can be done. That cylinder on the sleeve hitch would have the same down pressure as a 3 point.


Noel

Noel, there's a simple adapter that allows to put all sleeve hitch attachments on a 3pth. That's why I said, if you're able to make such a fancy sleeve hitch like Dave showed, you may as well make a 3pth with adapter. I have that.

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:21 pm

Propane57 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:02 pm
That would be a great system for me Dave, because all my attachments are for a sleeve hitch. 3 point would be neat and better because of all the adjustments that can be done. That cylinder on the sleeve hitch would have the same down pressure as a 3 point.


Noel

Noel, there's a simple adapter that allows to put all sleeve hitch attachments on a 3pth. That's why I said, if you're able to make such a fancy sleeve hitch like Dave showed, you may as well make a 3pth with adapter. I have that.

Oh, I was not sure if there was or not. Have a picture of it Eugen ? Is it only for catorgory zero ? Can it fit a catorgory one. ?

Noel

Propane57 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:30 pm Noel, there's a simple adapter that allows to put all sleeve hitch attachments on a 3pth. That's why I said, if you're able to make such a fancy sleeve hitch like Dave showed, you may as well make a 3pth with adapter. I have that.

Oh, I was not sure if there was or not. Have a picture of it Eugen ? Is it only for catorgory zero ? Can it fit a catorgory one. ?

Noel
[/quote]

The original case 3pth is Cat 0 and here is the manual for it and the adapter:
https://manuals.ccigt.com/More/Case-Ing ... -Hitch.pdf

Not that easy to find, mine came on the 644.

There are plans to make your own. Some people have done it. I think mine is in part original Case 3pth.
https://manuals.ccigt.com/FAQ/Make%20yo ... marked.pdf


And plans for the sleeve hitch adapter.
https://manuals.ccigt.com/FAQ/Case%20Sl ... marked.pdf

Ah, I see now. Thanks Eugen.


Noel

I make the 3 point sleeve hitch adapters. I cannot help you CA guys with the shipping issues and exchange rate, though.

https://saginaw.craigslist.org/grd/d/he ... 66788.html

Hey guys: This has been an interesting and valuable discussion on sleeve hitches vs 3 pt hitches. I have both. I used to have a center drive tiller on my 3 pt hitch and it worked real nice.

I took that tractor out of service w/o taking the 3 pt off. Got a sleeve hitch and put it on another tractor and tiller still wasn't too bad. Got a LH drive tiller with the sleeve hitch and never got tiller to run level after that. I could make it look level if I tilled started on the RH side of the garden and made each pass to the left of that first one. Looked real nice, but on the old style sleeve hitch it twisted the heck out of the hitch to carry it. After using it for my one garden I had the crack welded. The following year I put the old style 3 pt hitch on and I can level the tiller or run one side deeper. On the Moldboard plow I have bought in the meantime the 3 pt hitch is obviously superior from a setting standpoint.

Depending on what you have and what you want to accomplish, either can work. With a 3 pt, you can go from plowing, back to mowing without having to change the hitch, or at least removing the lift arm. With the 3 pt hitch, most of us have to remove the hitch if we are running the Ingersoll leaf suckers. I have always been impressed by the Case Ingersoll 3pt leaf suckers, but they are few and far between.

Bill