Case 680E

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Eugen Canada
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Re: Case 680E

Post by Eugen »

A small update on the fate of this tractor. The original alternator on this machine was replaced by someone in the past with a Delco Remy style alternator. I didn't know much about this alternator when I first saw it. At first look I noticed a broken tab where a connector plugs into it. This type of alternator is called 10SI, and there are some variations. But the one I got has 3 tabs, plus the main terminal that connects to the battery. The three tabs are labeled usually 1, 2, and R. Tab 1 is supposed to go to the positive battery terminal, via the key switch and a light bulb, which is the alternator warning bulb. Tab 2 should be connected to the battery terminal on the alternator. Tab R can be connected to the RPM gauge, but it is usually left alone. All three tabs are coming out of a triangular looking hard plastic device which turns out to be the regulator. Tab 2 was broken right out of the plastic. I carved the plastic until enough of the tab was uncovered and I soldered a flexible wire with a new tab. There are quite a few more pieces on the inside, brushes and brush holder, a diode bridge on a heat sink, a trio of diodes, and a capacitor. I will show how they get measured at some point. The rotor and stator of the alternator also measured fine. The mistake I made when I assembled it back together, weeks ago, was that I did not noticed there is a very cool way to put the brushes in place upon assembly, and the brushes were not sitting right. Therefore I thought the regulator was bust. Looked around for a new alternator, and on account that this is 24V, it's more expensive than the many you can find for 12V. A new one would cost around $200, so I slept on it. Found a rebuilding kit on ebay at only about $100. Again, tonnes of rebuilding kits for 12V, a lot cheaper. For those of you in the US the shipping is much cheaper, and no import taxes; that's why mine went up to the 100. In any case, my ramble is getting too long. I have reassembled the alternator now and traced the wiring on the big backhoe back to the bulb. The whole dial panel on the backhoe is in terrible shape, old, brittle plastic, and the bulb holders were all crumbling from age. My surprise with this alternator is that Tab 1 must be connected via the bulb and to a battery, otherwise the alternator field doesn't kick in, and it produces no voltage. Once this was in place it started producing around 28 volts.

Still, I ordered the new kit and will replace all internal parts, including the ball and needle bearings, basically making it a new alternator. Sorry, no pictures for now.
Case 224, 444, 644, 680E
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Eugen Canada
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Re: Case 680E

Post by Eugen »

For some I couldn't sleep last night from about 3:30 and the mind was racing through many things. Didn't want to waste this time in totality so I spent some of it going through the service and parts manuals. This engine lists two possible cylinder sleeves, with two different diameters. Can't find any way of finding out which diameter sleeve my engine uses to place an order for new a rebuild kit unless I pull out the sleeve. To pull the sleeve out the intake, water, and exhaust manifolds need to come off, then the head, then oil pan, and finally piston. It wasn't clear to me if this can be done with the engine still in the frame, and/or whether I need to fix the bucket up, which is a very questionable proposition, it's a giant loader this one. :hm:
Case 224, 444, 644, 680E
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JSinMO United States of America
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Re: Case 680E

Post by JSinMO »

I hate nights like that. Brain won’t shut off.
Hopefully you can do an in frame rebuild.
Does this tractor have a skid pan under it that has to come off?
Do you have enough room to work under it to drive the sleeves out?

If the bucket has to be up I would sure want it cribbed good so it can fall.

Sorry I don’t have answers for this, just some questions and thoughts that came to mind.
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Spike188 Canada
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Re: Case 680E

Post by Spike188 »

The tractor serial number should cross-reference to the engine specs.
Spike Colt - 9 & 10, Case - 108, 118, 444, 446, 448, 646, 646bh, Ingersoll 4016, 4118AH
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Re: Case 680E

Post by Eugen »

It doesn't have a skid pan on its belly Jeff, clear access to the oil pan. But the sleeves go out through the top after removing the head. I'm not sure I want to risk keeping the loader up, thought about some 6-7 inch diameter pine logs under the bucket but it feels a little sketchy. Hope to be able to do the work with the loader down. I gotta think this one through, once the oil is out and the pan is off no more starting the engine.

@Spike188 this I thought about, but what if there's an error somehow? It'd be different if it was a $50 part, but I'm afraid to order a $2000 kit without 100% certainty it fits. I've resolved myself to start disassembly soon, God help me! Once the sleeve is out I'll know for sure what to order.
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Toolslinger United States of America
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Re: Case 680E

Post by Toolslinger »

No matter what choice you make, it's pretty much guaranteed that the loader will be in the way somehow. Up, Down, Halfway, doesn't matter, it always sucks working around a loader boom.

If I'm going to lock a boom up, I'd get some angle iron, cut it to length, and strap it to the rod between the cylinder body, and the pin on the boom. Bigger the loader, the bigger the angle... Channel is good too if you can find the right size, and I've seen someone do it with some heavy wall pipe they cut in half too.
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Re: Case 680E

Post by DavidBarkey »

@Eugen Have you looked up the weight of the head ? Can you remove it without a over head crane ? How long will it be apart open to the elements before you can get the parts ? Not trying to be a party pooper but things you need to consider and plan for as well .
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Re: Case 680E

Post by Eugen »

DavidBarkey wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:04 am @Eugen Have you looked up the weight of the head ? Can you remove it without a over head crane ?
No I haven't but it doesn't seem to be that big. Look at it in this drawing, compared to the guy's hands. I think I should be able to wrestle it out of there bear hands. Looks like there is a head for each two cylinders which makes it a little more manageable. I'm thinking 30 to 50 lbs per head max.
Screenshot 2023-01-16 at 11.10.53.png
Screenshot 2023-01-17 at 07.21.35.png
@Toolslinger yes sir, problem is I got no angle that size. :sigh: Still hoping I can get it done as is.
How long will it be apart open to the elements before you can get the parts ? Not trying to be a party pooper but things you need to consider and plan for as well .
This has been my concern all along, about doing it in the white season, and it will be open for one or two months. My plan at the moment is to empty the engine oil and coolant, remove the manifolds and put them in the tent, sprayed with oil and wrapped in plastic. To get the sleeve and blown piston out maybe I can get away with removing only one head. Oil that head and store it inside. Plug the manifold holes of the other head with old t-shirts after some oil spray. Also spray the exposed block and cover it with some cloth and then plastic bag taped over. Take the oil pan off, remove the connecting rod cap and pull the piston and sleeve out, then put the oil pan on just for cover. Finally, put the engine hood back on, and strap a tarp all over the front of the tractor. :giggle: I think it's doable. :D
Case 224, 444, 644, 680E
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Spike188 Canada
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Re: Case 680E

Post by Spike188 »

One advantage to opening the engine before ordering parts is getting the correct rod and main bearings. Especially if there is excess journal wear.
Spike Colt - 9 & 10, Case - 108, 118, 444, 446, 448, 646, 646bh, Ingersoll 4016, 4118AH
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Re: Case 680E

Post by Eugen »

Spike188 wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:53 am One advantage to opening the engine before ordering parts is getting the correct rod and main bearings. Especially if there is excess journal wear.
True, it haven't thought about this. But I doubt I can take the crankshaft out without pulling the engine. The rod bearings yes. The main bearings not.
Case 224, 444, 644, 680E
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