Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

Figured I would kick off a dedicated thread to our winter tractor setups.

Here is my Berco setup from 2019. Haven't gotten around to taking pics yet this year.

Here is my SB48 snowcaster setup from about 2018. I've included a few pics of the extension wings, Berco skid shoes, Berco vs Ingersoll skid shoe comparison and the spacers needed to use the Berco skid shoes and extension wings at the same time.

Here is my non-Ingersoll weight box. I fabricated up the mounting bracket. The weight box rests on the factory hitch and is bolted through the factory hitch. Unfortunately the weight box interferes with the rear PTO I installed in 2019 and now just takes up space in the garage.

[attachment=0]image.png[/attachment

Dave

This is my present winter weight setup since the weight box no longer fits. I'm using 3x suitcase weights on the hydravac mounting bracket. The weights are mounted with a stack of washers between each weight. I've since painted the weights Ingersoll orange.

Hey guys has anyone come up with a way to raise and lower the cutting edge or shoes so that hard surface can be cleaned off but gravel can left in place . I still have both. I have large shoes .

Dave

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:12 pm Hey guys has anyone come up with a way to raise and lower the cutting edge or shoes so that hard surface can be cleaned off but gravel can left in place . I still have both. I have large shoes .

Dave

I was thinking the same thing the other day. I haven't did any searching yet to see if someone has come up with some ingenious way.

I've been keeping a ratchet and some wood blocks in the tool tray. I drop the blower down while the tractor is warming up. I do the concrete apron first. I then set the blower on the 1/2" blocks, drop the shoes, and do the driveway.
Tim

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:12 pm Hey guys has anyone come up with a way to raise and lower the cutting edge or shoes so that hard surface can be cleaned off but gravel can left in place . I still have both. I have large shoes .

Dave

I’ve often thought about hydraulic operated shoes or actuators on the shoes. Have it set so it just goes to desired height and stops for gravel, then when disengaged it goes back to pavement setting. I have never made any thing yet. Just thought it would be good for commercial snow removal, and of course good for us guys with different driveways.

Noel

DavidBarkey wrote:Hey guys has anyone come up with a way to raise and lower the cutting edge or shoes so that hard surface can be cleaned off but gravel can left in place . I still have both. I have large shoes .

Dave

I have been thinking the same too. I have a second driveway now that I'd like to maintain here and wanted to build something easy to setup. I wonder how well a push mower wheel assy would work bolted onto the skid. Use the push mower wheel height lever to set the bottom up when needed and drop it back down when your on pavement. Or maybe have a lever that swings over and down with a pad on it.

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I have been thinking the same too. I have a second driveway now that I'd like to maintain here and wanted to build something easy to setup. I wonder how well a push mower wheel assy would work bolted onto the skid. Use the push mower wheel height lever to set the bottom up when needed and drop it back down when your on pavement. Or maybe have a lever that swings over and down with a pad on it.

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Great ideas! Let's start a new thread on this!



Here's my current snow duty configuration which happened in a real hurry! The barn find 444 with combine weights on the rear wheels. I have chains too but they're on the 446, need to be ported over.

I think my tractor looks the most miserable! I think @MattA gets the prize for the prettiest!

Snow duty at home is my 4118 with AHSB48 hydraulic caster. At the cabin it's the NH 1510 tractor loader with Red Devil 5' pto blower At the shop it's a 555 Ford/NH tractor loader backhoe.
And when all else fails a scoop shovel.

Tim,the chute rotation is not hydraulic!I take issue with that!

Nice machines though.

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:30 am Tim,the chute rotation is not hydraulic!I take issue with that!

Nice machines though.

I thought about doing something with it on the Ingy but I don't think it's that bad to use the crank.
If I get a cab I may put seat motor on it.

The NH will get something done first, can barely reach the crank on it and if I stand up a little to reach back the seat safety switch kills the tractor. Going backwards is a little bit of a pain, but the amount of snow that thing walks through is impressive. And if you can't blow it the loader will take care of it.

Timj wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:14 pm

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:12 pm Hey guys has anyone come up with a way to raise and lower the cutting edge or shoes so that hard surface can be cleaned off but gravel can left in place . I still have both. I have large shoes .

Dave

I was thinking the same thing the other day. I haven't did any searching yet to see if someone has come up with some ingenious way.

I've been keeping a ratchet and some wood blocks in the tool tray. I drop the blower down while the tractor is warming up. I do the concrete apron first. I then set the blower on the 1/2" blocks, drop the shoes, and do the driveway.
Tim

Had the thought of some kind of cam action and the shoes on shoulder bolts with the lever at the top out of the snow .

Dave

Here's my winter rig. Just put in a new battery (350 CCA, turns the Kohler just fine) and front wheel bearings. And of course when I went to start for a test drive the key switch finally died! For now my other 444 donated it's newer switch until I get another one ordered. The chains are also from the other 444, I'm excited to see how they improve traction this year (there's over 500 lbs in wheel weights and me on the back).

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I likely those chains @Chad ! Mine don't have so many cross links. What are the wheel weights from?

Eugen wrote:I likely those chains [mention]Chad[/mention] ! Mine don't have so many cross links. What are the wheel weights from?

Ya they should make a big difference. One chain came off but tire pressure is now up to spec. so they should stay on better hopefully.

I'm not sure? They came with this tractor when I bought it. There are 2 separate weights per side for 4 total. The larger diameter ones weigh 135lbs and 165lbs respectively and the smaller ones are 35 lbs each. (Although I see now that the smaller ones I haven't yet put on in this photo). They attach with one large bolt in the middle of the other weights.

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MattA wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:04 pm This is my present winter weight setup since the weight box no longer fits. I'm using 3x suitcase weights on the hydravac mounting bracket. The weights are mounted with a stack of washers between each weight. I've since painted the weights Ingersoll orange.

I left my weights green, just as a button pusher I had them on the front of a 224 at a plow daze / tractor show. Well a couple of Case guy's (with OEM CASE suitcase weights) started giving me some crap about it. I told him "I like JD, they make excellent DEAD weight" They got a chuckle out of that, but a couple of JD guys overheard that and got a little red faced, and told me I'd better be careful who say that around


Gordy

These pics are the only ones I have of the 446. I've made a couple of changes to it recently. I changed the chute design with one that's a bit taller and most recently added a chute rotator motor. Still working on the deflector linear actuator though.

Keep the Peace
Harry

Harry wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:34 pm These pics are the only ones I have of the 446. I've made a couple of changes to it recently. I changed the chute design with one that's a bit taller and most recently added a chute rotator motor. Still working on the deflector linear actuator though.

Keep the Peace
Harry

Harry, We'll be looking for a report on the results of the chute mods.
Tim

Here are a few modded snowcaster chutes I've saved over the years. I'll let @Jancoe post his.

Chad wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:09 am

Eugen wrote:I likely those chains @Chad ! Mine don't have so many cross links. What are the wheel weights from?

Ya they should make a big difference. One chain came off but tire pressure is now up to spec. so they should stay on better hopefully.

I'm not sure? They came with this tractor when I bought it. There are 2 separate weights per side for 4 total. The larger diameter ones weigh 135lbs and 165lbs respectively and the smaller ones are 35 lbs each. (Although I see now that the smaller ones I haven't yet put on in this photo). They attach with one large bolt in the middle of the other weights.

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Eugen they are called 2 link chains. I have a set on my tractor which I got from a local Case Ingersoll friend. The package says Tirechain.com stock number 131155. I didn't see anything under that part number on tirechain.com. Another source: https://www.caseingersollparts.com/stor ... STYLE.html

The 2 link chains work well and ride relatively smooth compared to the 4 link chains. I only used my Ingersoll 4 link chains for one season. The Ingersoll chains appear to be a stronger/higher quality steel. The aftermarket chains have held up just fine the past 4 years. I've got a decent amount of weight on my tractor and I'm not trying to spin them on the driveway I had paved a few years ago.

Cool mods @MattA , I wonder which seems to add the most benefits.

Someone mentioned @Jancoe on facebook, in relation to snowcaster mods in general.


Here's a still frame from the videos he posted. Wow!



Some more pics of the mods he posted

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:41 pm Cool mods @MattA , I wonder which seems to add the most benefits.

Someone mentioned @Jancoe on facebook, in relation to snowcaster mods in general.


Here's a still frame from the videos he posted. Wow!



ED497308-F318-45C7-B49F-C6EA572E89A1.jpeg

I guess I got some work to do.

Someone in that discussion said the Kohlers won't handle a 19 teeth sprocket. Yeah, well, I want the 19 teeth sprocket and the 444 so we'll see about that one.

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:05 pm Someone in that discussion said the Kohlers won't handle a 19 teeth sprocket. Yeah, well, I want the 19 teeth sprocket and the 444 so we'll see about that one.

Even a OEM set up can be overloaded in certain snow conditions and the operators experience or lack thereof Ground speed can be reduced, and the cut width can also be reduced to keep from overloading the caster and engine in tougher conditions.


Gordy

Had the Case 224 out in the deep snow yesterday, from the weekend storm.
Disappointed in it. Not enough power to run the thrower. Then the belt started slipping. Engine runs good, but loses a lot of revs in the deep stuff. Works good in lighter snow that I had it in last week. But it cuts grass great. Lots of power for that. Any way. That’s the way it goes.

Noel

And the pretty one is broke, so I couldn’t test it. I’ve been waiting a year and a half to get a good storm to try out the 446, but it broke the day before the storm last weekend. Any way, that’s the way it goes.

Noel

Timj wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:29 pm

Harry wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:34 pm These pics are the only ones I have of the 446. I've made a couple of changes to it recently. I changed the chute design with one that's a bit taller and most recently added a chute rotator motor. Still working on the deflector linear actuator though.

Keep the Peace
Harry

Harry, We'll be looking for a report on the results of the chute mods.
Tim

It may have to wait until next winter. I have had so little snow to use it this year.

Keep the Peace
Harry

Looks like someone really liked mine and made a nice copy. I don't have Facebook. Lol I absolutely love my chute. Still in primer but the snow can't tell. My auger deflector has made a huge difference in the snow spraying out in front of me. Pretty much non existent now. I keep meaning to take a video of it in action but everytime I remember to I already finished the driveway.

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Propane57 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:58 am Had the Case 224 out in the deep snow yesterday, from the weekend storm.
Disappointed in it. Not enough power to run the thrower. Then the belt started slipping. Engine runs good, but loses a lot of revs in the deep stuff. Works good in lighter snow that I had it in last week. But it cuts grass great. Lots of power for that. Any way. That’s the way it goes.

Noel

That's too bad and not exactly encouraging for me as my snow duty tractor is a 444 :/

A rule of thumb lve seen over the years is, 5 hp per foot of snow blower.

Noel

Propane57 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:43 am A rule of thumb lve seen over the years is, 5 hp per foot of snow blower.

Noel

These are first use video's of a Burco blower that I converted from a front mount to a 3pt hitch mount. It was modified by a previous owner as a belt drive system on a 444. The current setup is driven using the hydraulic motor off of a Case tiller. https://youtu.be/4gaz6duFgsA
Changes made since this was taken are additional front end weights, wheel spacers to stop tire chains from slapping fenders, which is what is causing the click sound, directional control motor for shoot, travel speed control upgrades. Ground speed needs to be reduced to a creep to maintain adequate throwing distance. https://youtu.be/Ezo2h8NT31wThis short video is of the first time out. Snow was heavy and wet. Driveway was not frozen so gravel was picking up and stalling the blower.

10,000 reasons why the 646bh is not completed.

Spike

Very neat @Spike188 ! You probably have a whole thread somewhere on the other side about the conversion, it would be nice to know some details about the build. One day when you're so bored due to lack of any other stuff to do perhaps

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:59 am

Propane57 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:58 am Had the Case 224 out in the deep snow yesterday, from the weekend storm.
Disappointed in it. Not enough power to run the thrower. Then the belt started slipping. Engine runs good, but loses a lot of revs in the deep stuff. Works good in lighter snow that I had it in last week. But it cuts grass great. Lots of power for that. Any way. That’s the way it goes.

Noel

That's too bad and not exactly encouraging for me as my snow duty tractor is a 444 :/

Well I don’t know Eugen. They were designed like that, with a 48” snowthrower, so should work. Maybe the drive pully was changed on mine to run the auger faster. That would take more hp to run it in large amounts of snow. Do you know what the diameter of the pulley is suppose to be. It’s the pulley on the thrower I’m talking about.
Sorry about me telling the bad news about mine.

Noel

Propane57 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:43 am A rule of thumb lve seen over the years is, 5 hp per foot of snow blower.

Noel

If you use 4hp per foot it works out really close what Case has for there tractor / blower match up .

Dave

Propane57 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:23 pm

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:59 am

Propane57 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:58 am Had the Case 224 out in the deep snow yesterday, from the weekend storm.
Disappointed in it. Not enough power to run the thrower. Then the belt started slipping. Engine runs good, but loses a lot of revs in the deep stuff. Works good in lighter snow that I had it in last week. But it cuts grass great. Lots of power for that. Any way. That’s the way it goes.

Noel

That's too bad and not exactly encouraging for me as my snow duty tractor is a 444 :/

Well I don’t know Eugen. They were designed like that, with a 48” snowthrower, so should work. Maybe the drive pully was changed on mine to run the auger faster. That would take more hp to run it in large amounts of snow. Do you know what the diameter of the pulley is suppose to be. It’s the pulley on the thrower I’m talking about.
Sorry about me telling the bad news about mine.

Noel

I have one on the shelf in the shop . I will measure it an let you know. Also check the drive sprocket .

Dave

Measured my pulleys, on my snow casters One the 224 is 5” outside diameter and the one on the 446 is 6.5”. Drive sprockets on the 224 and 446 are both 17 teeth.


Noel

And I guess the other thing is, the diameter measurement on the engine pulley. Could you measure that too Dave. Both my tractors have electric pto's. Could the pulley size be different between an electric pto and a manual pto ?

Noel

Noel, a smaller diameter pulley in that position equals lower rotating speed on the auger. Why not transfer the caster from your 446 to the 224?

But what you experienced reminds me of my first time trying to do snow with my 220. I was really disappointed. There are so many variables that, if not set right, it won't work well. A few are:
* not right belt (size matters here)
* clutch not tight
* engine RPM too low
* engine tired (too weak) or governor not adjusted right so when it gets tough it won't push harder
* snowcaster: wrong size pulley, wrong number of teeth sprocket, old chain and auger moved away from back of housing

My 220 had belt and clutch problems. The caster was fine and the engine was strong and fast enough for lighter snow.

Then I got a 226 and it had clutch and belt problems too. Then the 446 came along and that could spin the snowcaster like a monster.

You probably have to start taking it methodically, one item at a time, and make sure it's right.

I wish I was home now to test my 444 setup, as we got a good dump of the white stuff.

Let us know how the 444 works when you get the chance to use it Eugen.

Guess my thinking was wrong on the pulley.

Noel

Propane57 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:43 pm Measured my pulleys, on my snow casters One the 224 is 5” outside diameter and the one on the 446 is 6.5”. Drive sprockets on the 224 and 446 are both 17 teeth.


Noel

The 6.5" OC. 1/2" belt . is the correct size which is a 6" pulley for ratio math. 17 teeth is correct as well . Some one was a little over zealous trying increase the RPM . If you were closer , I would say come over and I will give you one . The reduced surface area on the smaller pulley will add to belt slippage as well .

Dave

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:15 pm Noel, a smaller diameter pulley in that position equals lower rotating speed on the auger. Why not transfer the caster from your 446 to the 224?

But what you experienced reminds me of my first time trying to do snow with my 220. I was really disappointed. There are so many variables that, if not set right, it won't work well. A few are:
* not right belt (size matters here)
* clutch not tight
* engine RPM too low
* engine tired (too weak) or governor not adjusted right so when it gets tough it won't push harder
* snowcaster: wrong size pulley, wrong number of teeth sprocket, old chain and auger moved away from back of housing

My 220 had belt and clutch problems. The caster was fine and the engine was strong and fast enough for lighter snow.

Then I got a 226 and it had clutch and belt problems too. Then the 446 came along and that could spin the snowcaster like a monster.

You probably have to start taking it methodically, one item at a time, and make sure it's right.

I wish I was home now to test my 444 setup, as we got a good dump of the white stuff.

"Noel, a smaller diameter pulley in that position equals lower rotating speed on the auger." That is not correct . Making the driven pulley (caster end ) smaller will increase the RPM of the auger and increase the load on the engine . All the rest is correct

Dave

I thought we're talking about the pulley on the same axle with the 17 teeth sprocket

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:57 pm I thought we're talking about the pulley on the same axle with the 17 teeth sprocket

Yes we are . It is hard to put in to words and don't know how to draw on the computer .
engine = drive pulley
caster = driven pulley
shaft sprocket = drive sprocket
auger sprocket = driven sprocket

increase drive = increase auger speed
decrease driven = increase auger speed

Dave

Thanks Dave.

Noel.

MattA wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:24 pm Here are a few modded snowcaster chutes I've saved over the years. I'll let @Jancoe post his.

I missed these pics last night. I've seen some Case/Ingersoll tillers on Ahrens tractors too. The snow casters surprised me with Ahrens being the king of snow blowers. Wish they would make some 2stages for Ingersoll.

@Eugen was that your 226?

Tim, yeah, at some point I has a nice 226 with wide AG rear tires. Still sorry I sold it.

Here is a modded snowcaster chute done years ago by grummy on the old forum.

Great videos MattA. Have seen them before, but sure like watching them again. Very controlled snow throwing in the second video.

Noel

@MattA Impressive , that works really well . what engine is in that one ?

Dave

Did anyone watch the following video by Circus62. That 4020 was handling some serious snow.

Timj wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:31 am Did anyone watch the following video by Circus62. That 4020 was handling some serious snow.

He's got a bunch of good videos. On the old site his user name is Don40207020.

I've got a bunch more Case Ingersoll snow removal videos I'd like to post. I was thinking of starting a winter snow removal thread.

MattA wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:46 am

Timj wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:31 am Did anyone watch the following video by Circus62. That 4020 was handling some serious snow.

He's got a bunch of good videos. On the old site his user name is Don40207020.

I've got a bunch more Case Ingersoll snow removal videos I'd like to post. I was thinking of starting a winter snow removal thread.

Please start, I'll be happy to add stuff to it however lame my tractor ends up being. As soon as I get to clear snow, that is.

MattA wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:46 am

Timj wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:31 am Did anyone watch the following video by Circus62. That 4020 was handling some serious snow.

He's got a bunch of good videos. On the old site his user name is Don40207020.

I've got a bunch more Case Ingersoll snow removal videos I'd like to post. I was thinking of starting a winter snow removal thread.

I've watched a bunch of his before. He seems to be in an area that regularly gets big snow.
He's definitely got that machine dialed in to handle it.

Some chute fix up pictures I did the last few years. The top defector is the best modification I ever did. All of my snow thrower are manual turn. Which I don’t mind. I sure like the in seat to operate top defector modification, whether it’s power window set up or hydraulic. They operate quick. I’m hoping to do some thing with the Cases, when ever I get them working good.

Noel

@Propane57 I like the cable drive idea . Not seen that one before , and there all weather motors too.

Dave

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:18 am @MattA Impressive , that works really well . what engine is in that one ?

Dave

The Case 448 should have an 18HP Onan. I'll leave it to the Onan guys for the exact model.

So, I think I mention about the Case 224 not working well in the deep snow, worked ok in the light snow. So thanks to you Case people who know more than I do about Case stuff, we figured out that the pulley on my tractor was to small. It’s about 5” in diameter. Which makes the auger turn faster. The right pulley is 6.5”. Which will slow the auger down. Thanks to Eugen for straighten me out on that. Thanks to Dave for pulley size and the amount of teeth on the cogs. Both snocasters have the right cog, and the 446 has the right pulley. Now for some reason I thought the bigger the pulley the faster it would go. Any way, found a bigger pulley and a weld on shaft thing. All used of course, hehe. So have that made now, but just one more thing to do tomorrow. May have to get a longer belt.
Because my welding is not the greatest, I tack welded the the shaft thing on. I put it on a 3/4 pipe and rotated it. Wanting to see if it was centered. It was good. My machinist skill you know. Then I drilled and tapped four holes thru the pulley and into the weld on thing. Cut inch 1/4 bolts to down to half inch. Some lock tight and lock washers put in. Painted the new pulley assembly.

Hope fully finish it up tomorrow and test it out.

Another storm coming this weekend, basically the same time and place as last week end.

Noel

Looks good Noel! How's the engine though?

Engine is fine Eugen. Has lots of power to cut long grass , although snow throwing is harder. But I’m expecting good results tomorrow if I get it all together. If I don’t get the results I’m hoping for, it will be a grass cutting tractor only.

Noel

Just fit a belt now, and go for a test. 2” to 3” of fluffy snow last night. Chevy orange on pulley.

Noel

Propane57 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:08 pm Engine is fine Eugen. Has lots of power to cut long grass , although snow throwing is harder. But I’m expecting good results tomorrow if I get it all together. If I don’t get the results I’m hoping for, it will be a grass cutting tractor only.

Noel

Would be a good thing to check the engine max RPM somehow. And that needs to translate into a high RPM on the auger. When the RPM was not high on the auger on two of my tractors in the past, even what I considered easy snow to throw was a disappointment. Looking forward to see how you fare with the new pulley. Also looking forward to get home and test my 444. Though it's older snow, so it might be a tough one.

I’m in the process of finding a belt now. Takin just as long to do that as it was to fix up the pulley. I have a vibration tach here I might check the rpms. Although it sounds right.

Noel

So checked rpm and it’s good. Ok so I got it all hooked up and took the Case 224 and snow caster, which didn’t work good in last weeks storm, out for trial testing. Good news Eugen, it worked like I was hoping for. So yours should be good. To bad I can’t post a video, but the pictures will give you the idea. So Dave mention the drive pulley should be 6.5 “, well I cheated a bit and put a 7” pulley on. Works much better than last weekend. And had to get a 79” belt. A 78” might fit too. But the 79” did great, no slipping and never came off. Video on real garden tractors site , if interested.

On a safety note, had a stone hit me on my knee today that came from the chain. I’ll be putting a cover there at some point.

Noel

I'm glad it worked well! I saw the movie, there's nothing to complain about that!

My 444 wouldn't start tonight. Was starting just fine two weeks ago when I parked it. Had no time to troubleshoot so

On a safety note, had a stone hit me on my knee today that came from the chain. I’ll be putting a cover there at some point.

Noel

Sorry, I'm trying to figure out how to say this without sounding like a total A$$ But the first safety rule is to shut off all attachments before dismounting the tractor. Many farmers wives buried their husbands over the years, or had them crippled for life. Use the rock incident as a reminder, what if you slipped and fell with an arm or leg getting too close to the running caster After all that's why the newer machines have the Operator Presence switch in the seat,to kill the tractor not you the operator. With the older machines the most important safety gear is the grey matter between your ears

Play SAFE,

Gordy

I guess I didn’t say that I was sitting on the seat, moving forward, throwing snow at the time I got hit with the rock.

Noel

Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:26 pm
My 444 wouldn't start tonight. Was starting just fine two weeks ago when I parked it. Had no time to troubleshoot so

EE68D542-DB96-4F34-8178-F6915680C50F.jpeg

As we came from the city the truck was full so I just carved a path in a hurry with the walk behind so I could carry stuff inside. Later on I went back to the tractor and gave it a shot of starting gas. Now again it starts on the first crank. The snow was at least a weak old, and heavy. Going too fast got the engine to bog down, so I had to go slow but the throwing distance was about 6-8 feet. Obviously this needs some more tweaking.

One thing about a snowthrower is, I find any way, they throw better straight ahead than they do to the sides. Straight ahead is not necessarily the direction that one wants to throw to. But that’s the way they work.
Any change in direction in the snow or resistance in the chute will shorten distance.
You’ll have to check your cog and pulley sizes Eugen. I’m going to spray tremclad clear gloss paint on the 224’s caster today. Might give the Ford and John Deere a go too.

Noel

Propane57 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:41 am I guess I didn’t say that I was sitting on the seat, moving forward, throwing snow at the time I got hit with the rock.

Noel

Ok, Sorry I guess I had not thought of a ricochet possibility

So are you thinking the rock went forward and ricocheted off of something, and came back at you? Or did it come off the small sprocket and bounce off the back of the caster to hit you?


Gordy

Gordy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:18 am

Propane57 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:41 am I guess I didn’t say that I was sitting on the seat, moving forward, throwing snow at the time I got hit with the rock.

Noel

Ok, Sorry I guess I had not thought of a ricochet possibility

So are you thinking the rock went forward and ricocheted off of something, and came back at you? Or did it come off the small sprocket and bounce off the back of the caster to hit you?


Gordy

Based on what I saw from taking apart my caster, I think the stone from the driveway was grabbed by the chain against the bottom of the housing and flung back at him . Something I will address with mine just to be sure .

Dave

Gordy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:18 am

Propane57 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:41 am I guess I didn’t say that I was sitting on the seat, moving forward, throwing snow at the time I got hit with the rock.

Noel

Ok, Sorry I guess I had not thought of a ricochet possibility

So are you thinking the rock went forward and ricocheted off of something, and came back at you? Or did it come off the small sprocket and bounce off the back of the caster to hit you?


Gordy

My guess is, the rock got picked up by the auger, cog and chain at the front, rock was pulled back toward the small cog at the back of the thrower, when it got there, it was flung out at my knee. Ouch. I have noticed in videos that there is always snow coming out of there and notice it the other day while using my caster. Figured then I should put some thing there to keep the snow from blowing out, never thinking a rock would come out of there and hit me. Just lucky it didn’t hit my face.

Noel

Good thing it was just the knee Noel! Thanks for letting us know how it went with the 244. My 444 has a good engine, lots of RPM, yet on the heavy snow yesterday I had to go extra slow because it got bogged down pretty easily. No belt or clutch slippage, the engine would go down in RPM and almost stop if I went faster. This might be the limit of the 14HP Kohler. I don't think it'll solve this problem, but I'll try some governor and carb tweaking. I'm not holding my breath.


Any of you know what torque specs does the K321? Could there be such a big difference in torque between the 14HP K321 and the 16HP Onan?

Power torque ? Ft lb. some say lb ft. I’m not sure which is right. 16hp Onan is 28 ft lb about. So I was told once.

Noel

Thanks Noel, I'm going to type these somewhere here in a sticky topic. I've never seen these numbers. Awesome!

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:26 pm
Any of you know what torque specs does the K321? Could there be such a big difference in torque between the 14HP K321 and the 16HP Onan?

"k321 torque is 20.5 ft lbs at 3600". This was not in the chart at the following link, but down in the comments.

https://www.engine-specs.net/kohler/k321.html

For the Onan B43E 16 HP they show, Max. torque 44.0 N·m (4.5 kg·m, 32.4 ft·lb)

https://www.engine-specs.net/onan/b43e.html


Gordy

23.5 ft-lb vs 32.4 ft-lb that's quite a difference!

Guess I was wrong on the B43E Onan 16 hp torque,

Noel

It's an uninformed guess on my part, but I think 32.4 ft-lb is not correct. Could also be a case of sour grapes on my part

oh well, from the horse's mouth, i.e. the JD manual for 316,318,320



I suspect the 18 and 20 HP Onan would have the same torque but at higher RPM.

The formula relating these quantities is: HP = Torque * RPM / 5252

Therefore RPM = HP * 5252 / Torque

So the B43E 31.5 ft-lb at 16 * 5252 / 31.5 = 2668 RPM
The B43G at 3001 RPM.
And the B48G gets 31.8 ft-lb at 3303 RPM !!!

Can you imagine having that torque at 3303 RPM, translated to the auger?!!!

Oh man, and I really wanted to be happy with just the 14HP Kohler!!!!!


P.S. Take this with a grain of salt though. Max torque is (almost) never at max HP. Still, the fact that these increasingly larger HP engines have almost the same max torque I think it's an indication that it happens at a higher RPM.

hm...

Propane57 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:51 pm Guess I was wrong on the B43E Onan 16 hp torque,

Noel

We are all at the mercy of what someone else wrote or posted on the web Just hope my sources are correct


Gordy

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:40 pm P216Gpowercurves1.jpeg

hm...

So by that chart it looks like the different #'s we are seeing are for maximum (intermittent use) and continuous use.


Gordy

So Eugen, you have a good working 14 engine, so another option is to change your gearing on the thrower. It works. That's what you do in muscle cars to get a better time at the drag strip. Change the differential gears.

Noel

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:09 pm The formula relating these quantities is: HP = Torque * RPM / 5252

Therefore RPM = HP * 5252 / Torque

So the B43E 31.5 ft-lb at 16 * 5252 / 31.5 = 2668 RPM
The B43G at 3001 RPM.
And the B48G gets 31.8 ft-lb at 3303 RPM !!!

Can you imagine having that torque at 3303 RPM, translated to the auger?!!!

Just ignore this. Makes no sense to assume max HP.

Very Nice tractor and set-up. Thanks for posting!
Terry

Timj wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:22 am Snow duty at home is my 4118 with AHSB48 hydraulic caster.
KIMG0294.JPG
At the cabin it's the NH 1510 tractor loader with Red Devil 5' pto blower
KIMG0144.JPG
At the shop it's a 555 Ford/NH tractor loader backhoe.
And when all else fails a scoop shovel.

I have a 4118 that I am always having problems with the wiring and the safety switches.

Terry

Doublet wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:53 am

Timj wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:22 am Snow duty at home is my 4118 with AHSB48 hydraulic caster.
KIMG0294.JPG
At the cabin it's the NH 1510 tractor loader with Red Devil 5' pto blower
KIMG0144.JPG
At the shop it's a 555 Ford/NH tractor loader backhoe.
And when all else fails a scoop shovel.

I have a 4118 that I am always having problems with the wiring and the safety switches.

Terry

I have just started to have issues with the neutral safety switch, have to wiggle the travel lever to get it to start sometimes. Not looking forward to what is to come. But I guess with 1300 hours....
Tim

Timj wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:25 pm I have just started to have issues with the neutral safety switch, have to wiggle the travel lever to get it to start sometimes. Not looking forward to what is to come. But I guess with 1300 hours....
Tim

Hard access to the switch Tim?

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:42 pm

Timj wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:25 pm I have just started to have issues with the neutral safety switch, have to wiggle the travel lever to get it to start sometimes. Not looking forward to what is to come. But I guess with 1300 hours....
Tim

Hard access to the switch Tim?

I haven't even looked in there yet. It might not be that bad, I just hate that electric stuff.
I don't have a heated place to work on it at home, should probably bring it in to my shop and make some time to work on it while I'm hiding from the cold.
Probably should get it fixed before it snows and I need it, and jiggling the lever doesn't work.

Tim - If you get stuck and your starter won't crank due to the various interlock switches, turn your ignition switch to the run position, connect an automotive jumper cable to the batteries positive terminal and touch the other end of the jumper cable to your starters positive input connection. Expect a decent spark as the starter starts to crank. Essentially your bypassing the interlock system that controls the starter solenoid and also bypassing the starter solenoid. Wouldn't hurt to thread a nut over the starters positive input stud so that you don't melt the threads. I don't have an Onan but if you have access to the starter solenoid, you could also manually trigger the solenoid (I "think" applying +12V to the solenoid should activate it).

I know it sounds kind of rough but we used it as kids to start our 1990's craftsman (MTD at that point?) tractor (12HP Briggs) until we could get the solenoid replaced.

Tim,

Are you getting a click at the starter but no spin? If so read this thread. It started with the click no spin and moved up to how JD's Onan's suffered from a voltage drop from all of the many safety's, and fixed it by installing a relay to supply adequate power to the solenoid.

https://www.casecoltingersoll.com/threa ... ion.69338/


Gordy

MattA wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:35 pm Tim - If you get stuck and your starter won't crank due to the various interlock switches, turn your ignition switch to the run position, connect an automotive jumper cable to the batteries positive terminal and touch the other end of the jumper cable to your starters positive input connection. Expect a decent spark as the starter starts to crank. Essentially your bypassing the interlock system that controls the starter solenoid and also bypassing the starter solenoid. Wouldn't hurt to thread a nut over the starters positive input stud so that you don't melt the threads. I don't have an Onan but if you have access to the starter solenoid, you could also manually trigger the solenoid (I "think" applying +12V to the solenoid should activate it).

I know it sounds kind of rough but we used it as kids to start our 1990's craftsman (MTD at that point?) tractor (12HP Briggs) until we could get the solenoid replaced.

There is a less sparky/violent way to do that on tractors with the 4 terminaled solenoids. There are 2 small terminals, one is power from the ignition switch. The other is ground threw the safety switches, simply put a small jumper on that terminal to ground. Please remember this should only be a test or emergency procedure.


Gordy

Shot some pictures of my finished weight setup while getting ready for the storm today. Looks much better with the painted weights. The weights are separated by a stack of oversized flat washers. At some point I'd like to get some hairpin cotter pins to hold the setup together.

Indeed! This colour suits those weights much better!!

Looks great.

Noel

Thought I used to have a snow blowing thread for posting videos but I couldn't find it. This works...

Case 446 with Onan 20HP XSL

You guys are SO LUCKY. We never get snow here. Maybe 1/2" of slush every other year, gone by the afternoon. And a full on ice storm, where there's an inch of pure ice on all the surfaces. With no salt, the roads are impassable, and all the tree limbs fall down due to the weight, which knock down all the power lines and the power's out for a week.

BUT OTHER THAN THAT, no winter weather at all. Darkness and rain and humid cold.

So I don't have a snowcaster. Or a cab. Or any winter related need for a blade.

It's just a sad, sad tale.

I hope you folks at least feel a little guilty when you think of all the things I don't get to experience. No losing feeling in my fingers or toes. No chapped face. No burning tingle when the feeling comes back. No slipping on the ice. No rusted out fender wells. No driving in whiteout conditions. None of that for me.

You guys are SO LUCKY.




Bob

MattA wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 8:25 pm Thought I used to have a snow blowing thread for posting videos but I couldn't find it. This works...

Case 446 with Onan 20HP XSL

Excellent video Matt. Your GT really throws the snow. Take that old man Winter! Harry

thebuildist wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 4:07 pm You guys are SO LUCKY. We never get snow here. Maybe 1/2" of slush every other year, gone by the afternoon. And a full on ice storm, where there's an inch of pure ice on all the surfaces. With no salt, the roads are impassable, and all the tree limbs fall down due to the weight, which knock down all the power lines and the power's out for a week.

BUT OTHER THAN THAT, no winter weather at all. Darkness and rain and humid cold.

So I don't have a snowcaster. Or a cab. Or any winter related need for a blade.

It's just a sad, sad tale.

I hope you folks at least feel a little guilty when you think of all the things I don't get to experience. No losing feeling in my fingers or toes. No chapped face. No burning tingle when the feeling comes back. No slipping on the ice. No rusted out fender wells. No driving in whiteout conditions. None of that for me.

You guys are SO LUCKY.




Bob

I personally am heartbroken for you Bob.

On one hand I envy you Bob . One the other hand winter and all that comes with it keeps a lot of nasty creatures that live down south , well down south . As much as I become to lothe winter , I am willing to keep the trade off .

@Harry That's not my tractor. I wish my tractor blew snow like that.

Bob - Sorry you don't get any snow. It is really nice down south this time of year.

I also don't get enough snow. Its hit or miss here. I've used my snowblower twice this year. The first time I cleared an inch or so of slushy snow. I had already shoveled that day and I wasn't shoveling again... plus I had to move the tractor to get my car out of the garage. 2nd time was about 2 weeks ago when we got about 5" of heavy wet concrete like snow.

I've got more CCI videos to post but tonight's video is a classic... V8 powered snowblower on skid steer tracks. His channel has a few more videos.

WOW! There’s no substitute for cubic inches!

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 4:45 pm On one hand I envy you Bob . One the other hand winter and all that comes with it keeps a lot of nasty creatures that live down south , well down south . As much as I become to lothe winter , I am willing to keep the trade off .

I get your point, David. But calling me a "nasty creature that lives down south" is going too far!




Bob

thebuildist wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 9:25 pm
I get your point, David. But calling me a "nasty creature that lives down south" is going too far!




Bob

Bob, that's just tooo funny!! ahahahahaha !!!

thebuildist wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 9:25 pm

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 4:45 pm On one hand I envy you Bob . One the other hand winter and all that comes with it keeps a lot of nasty creatures that live down south , well down south . As much as I become to lothe winter , I am willing to keep the trade off .

I get your point, David. But calling me a "nasty creature that lives down south" is going too far!




Bob

Bob I’ve heard that southerners say that people from the north are like hemorrhoids. They both drop down and irritate the heck out of you but they eventually go back north! Is that true?

thebuildist wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 9:25 pm

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 4:45 pm On one hand I envy you Bob . One the other hand winter and all that comes with it keeps a lot of nasty creatures that live down south , well down south . As much as I become to lothe winter , I am willing to keep the trade off .

I get your point, David. But calling me a "nasty creature that lives down south" is going too far!




Bob

Nasty creepy crawly things

Thanks for the video Matt. HP can make a difference. Then somehow the thread took a left turn and it went from Hp to Hemi’s. Comic relief is always a good thing as long as it’s not at your expense. Harry

Back on track

MattA wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 8:23 pm I've got more CCI videos to post but tonight's video is a classic... V8 powered snowblower on skid steer tracks. His channel has a few more videos.

I first saw that blower in video 7yrs ago; what a stupid thing to build. Must be just for Youtube hits. In this video it couldn't go through drift at speed. If it was using much of the available HP it would over heat in minutes.

Was watching some snow-blowing porn, this is impressive, no mods (well maybe lights).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MPybBAjWPA

Matt, that's a great video of CASE too. Notice how it eats everything in front of it without much spill-over. Decent travel speed too. That's how you get the job done. You don't have to blow it 126', just enough to clear path. Of course, if you have a big yard to clear the further the better so your not re-blowing snow.

Futz, that video reminds me of my Sears walk behind blower. Goes slow but throws the snow very far without spillage. I also have a canopy to keep me out of the wind. Harry

I've seen a few walk behind snowblowers with lawnmower 18-23hp v twins added.

Ingersoll 4016 with a 23HP vanguard swapped in. There is a build thread on the old forum in the Vanguard section.

@Harry without pictures, it didn't happen , in fact, post video.

@MattA I agree, most walk behinds could do with twice the HP. I don't think there has ever been an OEM walk behind with twin (Honda's got some big blowers though, so maybe). I think a twin would put the blower beyond price point. That's one of the reasons I'm impressed with the video I posted, stock, single cylinder.

Now this guy's build is very impressive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK9ZuoRI3WQ

Thanks for posting!

FUTZ wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 7:59 am @Harry without pictures, it didn't happen , in fact, post video.

@MattA I agree, most walk behinds could do with twice the HP. I don't think there has ever been an OEM walk behind with twin (Honda's got some big blowers though, so maybe). I think a twin would put the blower beyond price point. That's one of the reasons I'm impressed with the video I posted, stock, single cylinder.

Now this guy's build is very impressive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK9ZuoRI3WQ

Thanks for posting!

Futz no video, but I could post some pics. I don’t use it because I would sooner drive the 446 with cab to move the snow. Harry

I was browsing through some old pictures and found this:
That's my son running the gravely 20 years ago, about this of year too. He's 30 now. We use to get enough snow to cover a lawn chair, now I see the grass. I still have the tractor, it's only an 8HP, but still did a good job. I've always wanted to put a 20HP V-twin in it. Now might be the time, since the starter motor has failed. BTW, the battery is mounted at the back for counter-balance; worked well.

FUTZ wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 7:59 am@MattA I agree, most walk behinds could do with twice the HP. I don't think there has ever been an OEM walk behind with twin (Honda's got some big blowers though, so maybe). I think a twin would put the blower beyond price point. That's one of the reasons I'm impressed with the video I posted, stock, single cylinder

I came across a Cub Cadet on craigslist a while back that had a 16HP vanguard v-twin. The blower section looked like a smaller version of my Berco.

Here's my B20 with 60" Ag blower. I just uploaded my first video to Youtube, it's easy. Sorry, it's a one handed shaky, un-edited, random affair.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/F1CS8-D4M_w



In this video I was going down hill and way too fast, ikd why (It may have been the beer waiting for me at the bottom). But, it demonstrates that although it is blowing only 20', it's perfectly fine for my narrow driveway, In fact I had it at angle so as not to blow on neighbours yard. Where stopped recording, I suddenly thought, will I get back up the hill. With all four wheels spinning, after several attempts, I did, barely. Might need chains.

hehe, that's niiice! @FUTZ How's your neck though?

Here is the winter fleet for 2024

CaseIngersollNE wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:09 pm Here is the winter fleet for 2024

That is an impressive, show shelf, lineup.

@CaseIngersollNE The peice on top of the push blade on the 4118D . Did you guys make that ? How well does it work ?

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 11:31 pm @CaseIngersollNE The peice on top of the push blade on the 4118D . Did you guys make that ? How well does it work ?

Yes David I saw that also and was wondering about it also. Harry

Unfortunately, mother winter did not provide an entertainment plan in my playbook this season. This 446 was about all that was needed and the 646 was used once to remove ice.

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 11:31 pm @CaseIngersollNE The peice on top of the push blade on the 4118D . Did you guys make that ? How well does it work ?

Thanks Spike

David, No it came on a plow we bought in a package. It looks neat, So in dry powder snow it works. In wet stuff it packs the snow and stops it from moving off the blade and turns it into pushing 6 foot boulders lol. I ended up taking it off since the last 2 years we have only gotten very little snow and very wet at that lol.. Will probably put it on another machine and just bring it out for powder lol.

I see those curved top blades on the state highway plows, that drive fast and scrape the accumulation off the highways. Just to use for a driveway is not necessary. Maybe for a parking lot it would be terrific. Harry