Hydraulic pto question.

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Re: Hydraulic pto question.

Post by Eugen »

I'd empty the splitter cylinder of all old oil, hook it up to the rear pto and use it a few times keeping an eye on the oil level in the tank. Top up as necessary, as the empty cylinder will draw enough oil to have to add more.

I doubt you need a bigger tank just for adding one cylinder to the circuit.
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Re: Hydraulic pto question.

Post by propane1 »

DavidBarkey wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 9:00 am
propane1 wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 7:09 am Metal tank up front by the cooler Dave.

Noel
That is the largest tank I know of , so that is a good start . What you need to know is the length of stroke , diameter of bore and the diameter of the rod of the cylinder on the splitter . . The length width and height of the tank to figure out volumes. How much that is displaced by the rod is the amount of fluid not returning to the tank . As long as that is less than the volume 80% of the tank volume you are fine .


Gotta put put this down before I forget. :D

224 metal oil tank size.
Length 11”, width 6.5”, depth 5.5”.

Hope to measures wood splitter cylinder this afternoon.

Noel

Ok measured the cylinder. It’s 26”. But the ram can only move 23.5”. That’s right to the wedge. So I’m guessing about 22”to 23”. I can’t remember how close it gets to the wedge. Position in the cylinder is 1.5” diameter.

Noel
Last edited by propane1 on Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hydraulic pto question.

Post by thebuildist »

Noel,

I'd expect the cylinder to travel much faster than what you were describing with your prior machine. I'd expect it to travel at a normal / expected rate for log splitter.

But you might want to consider doing whatever it takes to remove that half inch cast iron NPT tee from your PTO circuit.

That fitting is only rated for 300 PSI. And at end of cylinder travel you'll be pushing closer to 2000.

I wouldn't want to be around if and when it lets go.

Bob
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Re: Hydraulic pto question.

Post by propane1 »

All that piping is going Bob. Only thing that’s going to be there are the two quick disconnects screwed right into the pto valve. That is my goal, thanks.

Noel
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Re: Hydraulic pto question.

Post by ssmewing »

propane1 wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 10:38 am
DavidBarkey wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 9:00 am
propane1 wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 7:09 am Metal tank up front by the cooler Dave.

Noel
That is the largest tank I know of , so that is a good start . What you need to know is the length of stroke , diameter of bore and the diameter of the rod of the cylinder on the splitter . . The length width and height of the tank to figure out volumes. How much that is displaced by the rod is the amount of fluid not returning to the tank . As long as that is less than the volume 80% of the tank volume you are fine .
I am confused. What does the size of the tank matter? I thought the tank was nothing more than an expansion tank. The tank is only supposed to hold enough for expansion and side hill operation.

When you use a 2-way cylinder all you are doing is moving the fluid from one side to the other. It does not drain the tank. The drive system also does not use oil volume. It just borrows what it needs with 100% of it returned to the tank.




Gotta put put this down before I forget. :D

224 metal oil tank size.
Length 11”, width 6.5”, depth 5.5”.

Hope to measures wood splitter cylinder this afternoon.

Noel

Ok measured the cylinder. It’s 26”. But the ram can only move 23.5”. That’s right to the wedge. So I’m guessing about 22”to 23”. I can’t remember how close it gets to the wedge. Position in the cylinder is 1.5” diameter.

Noel
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Re: Hydraulic pto question.

Post by Timj »

ssmewing wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:28 pm
propane1 wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 10:38 am
DavidBarkey wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 9:00 am

That is the largest tank I know of , so that is a good start . What you need to know is the length of stroke , diameter of bore and the diameter of the rod of the cylinder on the splitter . . The length width and height of the tank to figure out volumes. How much that is displaced by the rod is the amount of fluid not returning to the tank . As long as that is less than the volume 80% of the tank volume you are fine .
I am confused. What does the size of the tank matter? I thought the tank was nothing more than an expansion tank. The tank is only supposed to hold enough for expansion and side hill operation.

When you use a 2-way cylinder all you are doing is moving the fluid from one side to the other. It does not drain the tank. The drive system also does not use oil volume. It just borrows what it needs with 100% of it returned to the tank.




Gotta put put this down before I forget. :D

224 metal oil tank size.
Length 11”, width 6.5”, depth 5.5”.

Hope to measures wood splitter cylinder this afternoon.

Noel

Ok measured the cylinder. It’s 26”. But the ram can only move 23.5”. That’s right to the wedge. So I’m guessing about 22”to 23”. I can’t remember how close it gets to the wedge. Position in the cylinder is 1.5” diameter.

Noel
There has to be enough reserve space in the tank to compensate for the volume difference that the ram itself creates in the cylinder.
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Re: Hydraulic pto question.

Post by RoamingGnome »

Timj wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:59 pm
There has to be enough reserve space in the tank to compensate for the volume difference that the ram itself creates in the cylinder.
What @Timj said... (only with more rambling... :wave2: )
Once you run it and top up the hydraulic tank and the cylinder and hoses are full and have :drink: all the oil they need, there will be a difference in cylinder volume on either side of the piston - the backside of the piston has less oil because the cylinder rod is taking up space as it goes in and out - rod fully extended = more oil inside the cylinder than when it's retracted. Extra capacity in the hydraulic tank needs to be roughly equal to the volume of the rod that goes in and out - the rod is your variable...
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Re: Hydraulic pto question.

Post by DavidBarkey »

ssmewing wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:28 pm
propane1 wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 10:38 am
DavidBarkey wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 9:00 am

That is the largest tank I know of , so that is a good start . What you need to know is the length of stroke , diameter of bore and the diameter of the rod of the cylinder on the splitter . . The length width and height of the tank to figure out volumes. How much that is displaced by the rod is the amount of fluid not returning to the tank . As long as that is less than the volume 80% of the tank volume you are fine .
I am confused. What does the size of the tank matter? I thought the tank was nothing more than an expansion tank. The tank is only supposed to hold enough for expansion and side hill operation.

When you use a 2-way cylinder all you are doing is moving the fluid from one side to the other. It does not drain the tank. The drive system also does not use oil volume. It just borrows what it needs with 100% of it returned to the tank.

Steve . The rod side of the cylinder returns less volume that the piston side due to the amount the rod displaces . The differential can be enough to empty a tank if not big enough .


Gotta put put this down before I forget. :D

224 metal oil tank size.
Length 11”, width 6.5”, depth 5.5”.

Hope to measures wood splitter cylinder this afternoon.

Noel

Ok measured the cylinder. It’s 26”. But the ram can only move 23.5”. That’s right to the wedge. So I’m guessing about 22”to 23”. I can’t remember how close it gets to the wedge. Position in the cylinder is 1.5” diameter.

Noel
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Re: Hydraulic pto question.

Post by Timj »

Here is the serial numbers for the different models of tractors for running the log splitter. There is a gap when the hydraulic tank was smaller and running the splitter was not recommended, but I'm pretty sure there was people that said they had successfully ran the splitter with these models.
Screenshot_20230418-204027.png
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Re: Hydraulic pto question.

Post by propane1 »

My Case 224 serial number is 9707978, so might work. Got a few fittings today. And may fool with fitting the couplers on today. Couplers are off the tea20 Ferguson tractor that ran the splitter before. Raining and cold out. So no Fiona wood cutting today. Im in garage with the wood stove on. May 1/23. :cuss: And I expect to be burning wood on and off for the next few weeks, if I can’t cut wood.

Noel
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