Messing around in the shop

[DavidBarkey]

@JSinMO Not ever worked on one of these so bear with me . 3 things came to mind . 1 Quality of the ground at the starter . 2 The starter brushes/commutator surface and bushing/bearings?? Is the starter hard to remove ? It "looks" simple from the pics. 3 Starter solenoid . Is it one that can be removed and taken apart and the contacts cleaned/polished ?
Trying a different battery if the one you are using is subject is a good idea as well. Happy hunting . I think there was many things causing this and you almost got them all now .

[Eugen]

This tractor is not familiar to me but am following along with interest. I got one of these spark plug light testers which help me when I suspect the firing strength.

Once you get used to it by seeing the light strength on a few engine you'll be able to tell if enough goes to the spark plug. When something puzzles me much I tend to go back to the basics. To detonate the engine needs air/gas mix, spark, and compression. Not sure you checked, but it's pretty unlikely you don't have enough compression on ALL cylinders. If spark and gas mixture were good I'd expect at least one cylinder to fire. You already did several look overs to the carb and fuel delivery system, so let's say that's not the culprit. We're left with the spark, just as you said. I'm not telling you anything new.

[Toolslinger]

Those inline spark checkers are wonderful things... That's what helped me find the inconsistent spark on the 444.

Another thought... My key switch doesn't stop me from hitting the starter button. It'll crank till the cows come home (and there haven't been cows here for over 50 years), but it won't fire with the key off. Might be worth checking for any sketchy wiring along that path as well.

[Harry]

Like you said Eugen, back to the basics. I always remember from shop class that for an engine to run you need three things. Ignition or spark, fuel and compression. I think your close to getting figured out. Harry

[Eugen]

Those inline spark checkers are wonderful things... That's what helped me find the inconsistent spark on the 444.

Another thought... My key switch doesn't stop me from hitting the starter button. It'll crank till the cows come home (and there haven't been cows here for over 50 years), but it won't fire with the key off. Might be worth checking for any sketchy wiring along that path as well.

That's a really good point, I've had a problem with starting my Case 224 and it was the ignition switch. Along the ignition circuit is also the grounding.

[JSinMO]

Excellent points fellas! Thank you

This is my first Ford and electronic ignition as well. Not that that’s a bad thing! I am learning! Of course somethings are universal but as you know old things have their own nuances and quirks!

So I don’t have a compression tester on hand but doing the rudimentary thumb over the hole I’m more than satisfied it has good compression, and with my hand over the throat of the carburetor while cranking it sucks hard enough to leave a mark on my hand. so I feel confident to mark that off the list.

After being through the carburetor enough times now to be able to tear it down blindfolded, and the fact that when I do get it to run it work great. Throttles up and back to idle fine. I may have some minor adjustments to make later and that linkage to look into but I’m comfortable to mark fuel off the list at this point.

So that leaves spark and I’m having the same thoughts as you guys. I did some more homework last night.
I’m saw some information that the Autolight 437 plugs I got aren’t the best choice for the early front mount distributors. Apparently the square coils don’t put out the amps to give good spark to that plug and they should be used with the later N series with the side mount distributors and newer style round coils. They suggest an Autolight 216 plug gapped at .020 for the square coil. Is this interwebs BS? I don’t know but I figured it couldn’t hurt to try so I picked up a set of 216s. I think the next step will also include going over the electrical system from one end to the other as you guys mentioned. I think pulling the starter and checking it out is a good idea too. Thankfully this is about as simple a system that there is!

This does lead me to a couple of questions for the group though. Take a look at this picture.

That crusty thing on the right is the original ballast resistor.

Question 1). Am I correct in my thought that the reason for the ballast resistor is to give full voltage to the coil when cold and reduced voltage to the coil when hot in an effort to give the points a longer life?

Question 2). If I’m correct about question 1 than why can’t I eliminate it? There are no points and the coil is 12 volt. since the idea here is to eliminate resistance in the circuit would it not be better with out it?

As always fella thank for coming along with me, and thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[MattA]

Let me start out by saying I have limited knowledge of old farm tractors. I grew up the son of an electrical engineer and became one myself. We do both like old farm tractors...
The slow cranking speed as others may have said could be related to poor connections. For example a 0.01 ohm dirty corroded connection creates a 2 volt drop at 200 ramps. That's one third of your 6V battery voltage. Start by cleaning both sides of each connection and the hardware in the high current path from your battery to the starter. Be sure to get both the positive and negative wires.

[myerslawnandgarden]

Excellent points fellas! Thank you

This is my first Ford and electronic ignition as well. Not that that’s a bad thing! I am learning! Of course somethings are universal but as you know old things have their own nuances and quirks!

So I don’t have a compression tester on hand but doing the rudimentary thumb over the hole I’m more than satisfied it has good compression, and with my hand over the throat of the carburetor while cranking it sucks hard enough to leave a mark on my hand. so I feel confident to mark that off the list.

After being through the carburetor enough times now to be able to tear it down blindfolded, and the fact that when I do get it to run it work great. Throttles up and back to idle fine. I may have some minor adjustments to make later and that linkage to look into but I’m comfortable to mark fuel off the list at this point.

So that leaves spark and I’m having the same thoughts as you guys. I did some more homework last night.
I’m saw some information that the Autolight 437 plugs I got aren’t the best choice for the early front mount distributors. Apparently the square coils don’t put out the amps to give good spark to that plug and they should be used with the later N series with the side mount distributors and newer style round coils. They suggest an Autolight 216 plug gapped at .020 for the square coil. Is this interwebs BS? I don’t know but I figured it couldn’t hurt to try so I picked up a set of 216s. I think the next step will also include going over the electrical system from one end to the other as you guys mentioned. I think pulling the starter and checking it out is a good idea too. Thankfully this is about as simple a system that there is!

This does lead me to a couple of questions for the group though. Take a look at this picture.

IMG_4555.jpeg

That crusty thing on the right is the original ballast resistor.

Question 1). Am I correct in my thought that the reason for the ballast resistor is to give full voltage to the coil when cold and reduced voltage to the coil when hot in an effort to give the points a longer life?

Question 2). If I’m correct about question 1 than why can’t I eliminate it? There are no points and the coil is 12 volt. since the idea here is to eliminate resistance in the circuit would it not be better with out it?

As always fella thank for coming along with me, and thanks for sharing your knowledge!

Again, not familiar with the old Fords but regarding question #1, at least in automobiles back before electronic ignition the ignition system received full battery voltage when cranking and once the key returned to the run position the voltage was routed through the ballast resistor. The purpose was to extend point life with the lower voltage. As for question #2, I would see no reason for a ballast resistor with the electronic ignition but I don't think eliminating it will resolve your starting problem as it should not be reducing voltage until the engine starts.

One thing you mentioned caught my attention, you stated "There are no points and the coil is 12 volt." I know you also said it was still a 6 volt system and has not been converted. Remember, I'm far from an expert but is it possible that you don't have enough voltage to power a 12 volt coil especially with the voltage drop during cranking?

Something to think about,

Bob

[JSinMO]

[
One thing you mentioned caught my attention, you stated "There are no points and the coil is 12 volt." I know you also said it was still a 6 volt system and has not been converted. Remember, I'm far from an expert but is it possible that you don't have enough voltage to power a 12 volt coil especially with the voltage drop during cranking?

Something to think about,

Bob

I’m sorry Bob if I said that I mis spoke. This is NOT a 6 volt system. It was converted to 12 volt before I got it. So 12 volt battery, 12 volt coil, single wire alternator and the 12 volt ignition module replacing the points and condenser. I try to explain what I’m working on, or what I have the best I can if I mis represented that please forgive me.

As you said there should be no reason for the ballast resister to be in the circuit but it shouldn’t affect anything. The reason I’m thinking it would be good to delete it is along the lines of what @MattA was saying. It’s a pretty rusty, nasty connection point that runs to the coil. If it’s no longer necessary instead of trying to clean it I can make better connections with out it. It sounds like I’m ok to bypass it if I decide too.

Thank you guys for the help, I appreciate it!

[Toolslinger]

Bob - That was me with the original 6v system on my N. I'm not much help on the 12v conversion in use here unfortunatly, but I put my $0.02 in on the overall N setup... My "big" tractors date from 1970 - 1948, so I'm solidly in the antique tractor owner club, and I get to fight all the antique issues... Pretty bad when my Case machines are almost the newest equipment at my place...