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Re: A little more ready for $&@#
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:57 am
by propane1
Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:41 pm
Noel, great progress! Is this for you or for your son?
This is for son Eugen.
Noel
Re: A little more ready for $&@#
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:01 pm
by propane1
Was at the small fellas business today and got a gas tank for sons rear thrower project. Thought I had one. But I guess not.
Any way. While there got talking about engines. He has a cub cadet there with a bad engine. Don’t know the number of the cub and all I know about the engine is he said it was a vanguard. 16 hp twin horizontal shaft. He says it’s blowing oil out the carb, I think is what he said. Figures piston and maybe cylinder bad. What do you think guys based on the limited amount of information I gave yas. I know nothing about those engines. He’s not sure about selling it. Figures engine no good.
And has a kohler kt17 with a oil filter on it which makes me think it’s a series II. I don’t know much about those engines either. This engine he had running a couple of years ago for a customer. Customer never picked it up or paid bill. This one could be for sale. Still in a Ariens gt17. Have to take the whole tractor. No price yet.
Noel
Re: A little more ready for $&@#
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:03 pm
by DavidBarkey
propane1 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:01 pm
Was at the small fellas business today and got a gas tank for sons rear thrower project. Thought I had one. But I guess not.
Any way. While there got talking about engines. He has a cub cadet there with a bad engine. Don’t know the number of the cub and all I know about the engine is he said it was a vanguard. 16 hp twin horizontal shaft. He says it’s blowing oil out the carb, I think is what he said. Figures piston and maybe cylinder bad. What do you think guys based on the limited amount of information I gave yas. I know nothing about those engines. He’s not sure about selling it. Figures engine no good.
And has a kohler kt17 with a oil filter on it which makes me think it’s a series II. I don’t know much about those engines either. This engine he had running a couple of years ago for a customer. Customer never picked it up or paid bill. This one could be for sale. Still in a Ariens gt17. Have to take the whole tractor. No price yet.
Noel
The Kohler KT 17 with the oil filter is an ok engine , The twin without filter is a gernade waiting to go off .
The Vangards like to blow the head gasket between the cylinder and push rod gallory pumping compression into the crankcase / pushing oil out pcv vent . For this reason a lot of those engines were frequently blamed for bad rings . Now that not to say that is the case here , but could be . The only way to know is to do a compression test , see if one or both cylinders are low on psi. Then pull the valve covers of and check to see if there is "wind " coming out from the gasket area between the cylinder and push rod gallory . Smoke or a strip of paper while cranking works .
Re: A little more ready for $&@#
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:14 pm
by propane1
Thanks Dave.
Noel
Re: A little more ready for $&@#
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:33 pm
by MattA
Noel - The Vanguards are known for gasket failures which cause oil vapor to be sucked through the PCV system into the carb/air filter area. Eventually the oil filter gets covered in oil and it increases the vacuum on the PCV system which makes the problem worse. Oil can drip out of the air filter housing, down through the engine onto the frame rails on Ingersoll tractors. Typical failed gaskets are the front and rear crankshaft gaskets even if they are not dripping, the crankcase gasket and I've heard of the dipstick tube gasket also failing. I think the gasket kit used to be sub $100 for all engine gaskets. Replace the air filter with the gaskets. I have the service manual on pdf if you want it. I've been meaning to upload it to the Vanguard engines section.
Re: A little more ready for $&@#
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:38 pm
by MattA
Here are the manuals Noel:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1170
Re: A little more ready for $&@#
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:53 pm
by Gordy
DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:03 pm
propane1 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:01 pm
Was at the small fellas business today and got a gas tank for sons rear thrower project. Thought I had one. But I guess not.
Any way. While there got talking about engines. He has a cub cadet there with a bad engine. Don’t know the number of the cub and all I know about the engine is he said it was a vanguard. 16 hp twin horizontal shaft. He says it’s blowing oil out the carb, I think is what he said. Figures piston and maybe cylinder bad. What do you think guys based on the limited amount of information I gave yas. I know nothing about those engines. He’s not sure about selling it. Figures engine no good.
And has a kohler kt17 with a oil filter on it which makes me think it’s a series II. I don’t know much about those engines either. This engine he had running a couple of years ago for a customer. Customer never picked it up or paid bill. This one could be for sale. Still in a Ariens gt17. Have to take the whole tractor. No price yet.
Noel
The Kohler KT 17 with the oil filter is an ok engine , The twin without filter is a gernade waiting to go off .
The Vangards like to blow the head gasket between the cylinder and push rod gallory pumping compression into the crankcase / pushing oil out pcv vent . For this reason a lot of those engines were frequently blamed for bad rings . Now that not to say that is the case here , but could be . The only way to know is to do a compression test , see if one or both cylinders are low on psi. Then pull the valve covers of and check to see if there is "wind " coming out from the gasket area between the cylinder and push rod gallory . Smoke or a strip of paper while cranking works .
Dave, I guess I have had better luck than you. I have a couple KT-19's without the oil filter, the tins and air filter covers do say Series II. They are on 83-86 Simplicity 7119's and still run strong, but are in need of rebuild due to oil consumption. There are 3 things I have had issues with, carbs, starters and crank seals. But there are a lot of hours on them and these things are to be expected.
Gordy
Re: A little more ready for $&@#
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:23 am
by propane1
Thank you MattA.
Noel
Re: A little more ready for $&@#
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:33 am
by DavidBarkey
@Gordy All the non filter KTs I see are series 1 and with filter are series 2 . So it might me what a person sees relative to the market they are in . There is a reason they came out with a series 2 . Obviously first generation had oiling problems . I have only been doing for about 10 years now so , still have much to learn .
Re: A little more ready for $&@#
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:44 am
by Gordy
DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:33 am
@Gordy All the non filter KTs I see are series 1 and with filter are series 2 . So it might me what a person sees relative to the market they are in . There is a reason they came out with a series 2 . Obviously first generation had oiling problems . I have only been doing for about 10 years now so , still have much to learn .
So info I have is that the KT series 1 was a splash oil system with problems, with the series 2 being a pressurised oil system. Whether the KT-2 had a filter or not depended on the application and the manufacturer using them. For my simplicity 7119's the repower places online only offer non filtered engines due to hood interference. Before I knew of those repower places I bought a BS VG 12 hp to put on a AC 712 (rebranded Simplicity), the hood hit the oil filter. I had the option of cutting the hood
or relocating the filter. I opted for a new filter mount, basically 2 pieces of steel plate welded at about 30 degrees with strategic holes drilled and stainless tubing TIG welded in place. The angle was enough to clear the hood and no hoses in the way.
Gordy