Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:11 pm The biggest draw back I see is the amount of power it takes to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen and then safely storing them both untill needed . Not something for most amateurs to play with .

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:21 pm So I asked the guy what kind of device he's using and he sent me a picture, after which I found it on Amazon. LOL


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In a nutshell, they don't store the hydrogen. The heart of the matter is the dry cell hydrogen generated. It's a sandwich of stainless steel plates insulated from each other and in a plexiglass enclosure. Some plates are connected to positive, some to negative source of voltage (battery, alternator). Part of the plates are immersed in distilled water mixed with a little catalyst (powder) to make it a little conductive. When there is voltage across the plates, there is electrolysis and both water and hydrogen are released inside the enclosure. A hose from the enclosure is connected to the air intake of the car, so while the car is running, the electricity from the alternator generates hydrogen which gets sucked into the engine with air and gasoline. Here's where it gets tricky. Apparently the hydrogen ignites faster than the air/gasoline mixture, so the engine timing should be changed. The guy with that ad said he also has the chip or whatever to change your car timing. Also, they usually have a check valve and a spark arrestor between the hydrogen generator cell and the air intake. Therefore, no significant amount of hydrogen is really stored.

One thing I've asked myself is, does this fuel cell produce enough hydrogen? They throw some numbers around, like 45 litres per minute, or 90 litres per minute. So the kit you install depends on the engine displacement as well.

Here's the little fly in the soup. Apparently to generate this much hydrogen you need quite some current, and some talk about 20 amperes. Your car's alternator must be able to supply that current. But, when a higher current draw is needed, the energizer field inside the alternator is increased, and the alternator is harder to be turned by the engine, therefore the load on the engine increases. Basically, physics says you cannot put an amount of energy into a system, and generate more energy. So the world seems to be divided in two camps. The people that say this is really a hoax, because the rules of physics are immutable. The other side says "you can't argue with results" and you will find anecdotal evidence that people got anywhere from 5% to 25% more mileage with a system like this. They say that the efficiency of the engine increases when hydrogen and oxygen (they call the generated gas "brown gas") get burned together with gasoline.

I'm not about to fork $1400 on that. If I had stainless steel plate and time I would not mind playing with this.

MattA wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:09 am I built a HHO generator 10+ years back using some stainless steel electrical box covers, some grommets for insulating and some screws to hold the stack of plates together. Probably spent $10 on the project. It made hydrogen bubbles which were fun to light on fire.

I was in the physics camp too. I stumbled across a video explaining the physics which showed the energy required to generate the hydrogen was more than the energy you got from the hydrogen. I think mythbusters tv show did an episode on this too. I don't remember the results...

Gordy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:52 am

MattA wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:09 am I built a HHO generator 10+ years back using some stainless steel electrical box covers, some grommets for insulating and some screws to hold the stack of plates together. Probably spent $10 on the project. It made hydrogen bubbles which were fun to light on fire.

I was in the physics camp too. I stumbled across a video explaining the physics which showed the energy required to generate the hydrogen was more than the energy you got from the hydrogen. I think mythbusters tv show did an episode on this too. I don't remember the results...

We know gas and diesel enter the cylinder in mostly small droplets, much of it does not change to vapor for combustion. The theory for this working is that the HHO has a flame front that moves way faster than the gas flame front. This HHO flash flame front both heats and shocks the fuel droplets apart for a more complete burn. This more complete burn should give you more power and you should be able to back off on the throttle, and not be dumping as much fuel into the engine.

Hydrogen Garage was pushing a high frequency pulser for the DC into the HHO generator. The theory is that with the correct combination of frequencies they could get better HHO production with lower power requirements than simple brute force DC.

For those confused by the names used, HHO, Browns gas, and hydroxy are interchangable.


Gordy

Gordy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:40 pm

Gordy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:52 am

MattA wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:09 am I built a HHO generator 10+ years back using some stainless steel electrical box covers, some grommets for insulating and some screws to hold the stack of plates together. Probably spent $10 on the project. It made hydrogen bubbles which were fun to light on fire.

I was in the physics camp too. I stumbled across a video explaining the physics which showed the energy required to generate the hydrogen was more than the energy you got from the hydrogen. I think mythbusters tv show did an episode on this too. I don't remember the results...

We know gas and diesel enter the cylinder in mostly small droplets, much of it does not change to vapor for combustion. The theory for this working is that the HHO has a flame front that moves way faster than the gas flame front. This HHO flash flame front both heats and shocks the fuel droplets apart for a more complete burn. This more complete burn should give you more power and you should be able to back off on the throttle, and not be dumping as much fuel into the engine.

Hydrogen Garage was pushing a high frequency pulser for the DC into the HHO generator. The theory is that with the correct combination of frequencies they could get better HHO production with lower power requirements than simple brute force DC.

For those confused by the names used, HHO, Browns gas, and hydroxy are interchangable.


Gordy

Should have added, That the HHO is not really an additional fuel, instead it is more like a catalyst to get a more efficient use of the fuel you are already using.


Gordy