Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

This seemed like a shop-talk type post, as I'm guessing there's some arguments that could be had over a beer or 3.

I'm curious what brand and fluids you guys are using in your Case 220's. As I just picked it up I want to do a fluid flush and fill, and thought I would see what you Canadian Weather-ers are using for oil and hydraulic fluid.

Cheers!

yeah, awesome entrance Noel, let the haha

No, just kidding, we're not that kind of bunch, but some of us have some strong opinions about the oils to be used in anything.

I'll go first. I use diesel oil 5w40 or 15w40 depending on the season, both engine and hydraulic and transmission. approved

I have tried different combination . What I am running now in the 446 is Rotela diesel 5w40 Syntetic in the hydro and the engine . It is more money but if you don't have to every spring and fall unless it really needs it not just for temps. Rear gear still use 80w90 , but next change I am going to switch to UTF . I use universal blinker fluid in my beacon light and dot 3 halogen fluid in the head lights .
My 2 cents , you may keep the change .

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 4:24 pm I have tried different combination . What I am running now in the 446 is Rotela diesel 5w40 Syntetic in the hydro and the engine . It is more money but if you don't have to every spring and fall unless it really needs it not just for temps. Rear gear still use 80w90 , but next change I am going to switch to UTF . I use universal blinker fluid in my beacon light and dot 3 halogen fluid in the head lights .
My 2 cents , you may keep the change .

thanks for cleaning the shelves at the Canadian Tire of dot 3 halogen fluid buddy! I could find none when I went there, they told me this hoarder named Dave got it all he's building an underground bunker.

Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 5:32 pm

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 4:24 pm I have tried different combination . What I am running now in the 446 is Rotela diesel 5w40 Syntetic in the hydro and the engine . It is more money but if you don't have to every spring and fall unless it really needs it not just for temps. Rear gear still use 80w90 , but next change I am going to switch to UTF . I use universal blinker fluid in my beacon light and dot 3 halogen fluid in the head lights .
My 2 cents , you may keep the change .

thanks for cleaning the shelves at the Canadian Tire of dot 3 halogen fluid buddy! I could find none when I went there, they told me this hoarder named Dave got it all he's building an underground bunker.

I had never thought about UTF in the Case fleet. That's interesting for sure. It works just fine and dandy in my bigger machines all year here in PA. The 90 weight in the 8n absolutely sucks in the winter since it's a common sump for the hydraulics, and the rear. Waiting on the 3 point to lift the blade plowing snow is awful. Can't convince my uncle to go to UTF. Honestly I should just do it, and swap back to 90 before he gets back in the spring... I'd be curious how it would play for the drive in the summer. I imagine the cylinders wouldn't care either way.

Currently I run 15-40 in the Case fleet. It isn't ideal in the real cold days, but I don't see temps like you folks in the great white north. (you can keep them, and I wish you'd take this arctic air back that came down this week) It comes up to a reasonable working temp pretty quickly, so no big deal, it just is kinda a drag starting out, meaning one must start the machine and let it warm up while cycling the oil in neutral.

I run Rotella 15-40 in hydrualic and engine year around.

For radiators, I prefer water in 16 oz cans.

Good one Eugene!


@NGraham hope you don't mind us, we like having some fun in this hobby too. But the information outside the jokes is real, I can tell you that some of these guys have been doing Case garden tractors for many many years. Actually, now I'm really curious, maybe I'll open a thread about it.

I got tired of the spring/fall oil changes. I now run Mobil 1 5W-40 full synthetic in the hydraulic system. Topped it off with a quart of Mobil 1 20W-50 full synthetic a year or so ago. Might have added some Mobil 1 5W-30 full synthetic in small quantities. My tractor sleeps in an attached garage and it's probably 20F - 30F when I start it up in the winter.

I know that by jumping into this I am on dangerous ground, so please don't consider this a recommendation, it's just what I do and I am not one to argue. If it works for you just do it.

Summer use for Kohler, Onan and Briggs Vanguards I use a straight weight SAE 30 Diesel oil, 15w40 Shell Rotella in the hydraulics and transaxle. I like the zinc content in both of them.

Winter (under 32 degrees F.) 5w20 for engines and I stay with 15w40 in the hydraulics (with a proper warm up before putting the tractor to work) to avoid seasonal oil changes unless the tractors are stored in a temperature where they won't crank. Then I got to 5w20 in the hydraulics as well.

Some may question 5w20 in the engines, with the Kohler K series they are a dip and splash lubrication system and I feel the light viscosity gets distributed quicker on cold startup. Onans have a weak link in the oil pump (tiny woodruff key in the drive gear) so I also like a light viscosity for them to lessen the load on that pump.

Just never been a synthetic guy, old school I guess. Used to use the excuse of being too expensive for engines without oil filters as they still needed 25 hour changes to remove impurities and it was too expensive, but now we're in an era where it's nearly the same price as dino, lol.

This is just what I do. "You do you" as they say.

Bob

Found it. Ingersoll 4016 cold weather startup posted by earthnstrings on the old forum.

I intentionally left the Ingy 4016 outside over night to see if I could depend on the tractor. I learned once I bumped the throttle and choke levers up and down a couple times prior to cranking it started right up.

I was also intentionally testing the hydraulic system to see if it would handle the conditions. You will see in the included video that I put the tranny in neutral and moved the Travel Control Valve just a bit in the slow position so the hydraulic oil circulated and warmed up.

Location : Tuftonboro NH
Conditions: Left outside over night in windy weather that fell to -12 degrees F
Engine Start : The temp was -2 degrees F when I started the engine

Hydarulic Oil = Shell Rotella T4 10w - 30
Hydraulic Filter = OEM C33445

I hope this information is helpful to those living in frigid climates.

@MattA how cold was it?

Here's the black frame 226 I used to have, cold start at -14C/7F


https://vimeo.com/390195598




Probably 15w40 in it.

I am with you Bob on the Zink and getting the "blood" moving quicker in the cold . Thats why I also have block heaters in the Onan oil pan and on the bottom of the hydra tank . 1/2 to 1 hour before start up I plug them in and some time the Onan will start without choke and the hydra is quick within minutes .

Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 10:34 pm @MattA how cold was it?

Here's the black frame 226 I used to have, cold start at -14C/7F


https://vimeo.com/390195598




Probably 15w40 in it.

I updated my post above with the info.

Your 226 seems to startup ok. Onan powered? I know your a single lung Kohler guy but the 226 has dual stacks.

Yeah @MattA , my 226 with the Onan B43M, engine was strong. Sold it a while ago as a package with all kinds of attachments. It was a good looking tractor, with those wide wheels at the back, black frame, and beefy looking hood.

Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:40 pm Good one Eugene!


@NGraham hope you don't mind us, we like having some fun in this hobby too. But the information outside the jokes is real, I can tell you that some of these guys have been doing Case garden tractors for many many years. Actually, now I'm really curious, maybe I'll open a thread about it.

Haha not at all I love it! Really happy you guys aren't a bunch of meatheads that yell at each other like some other forums I've been in, I thought I'd use my question as a feeler.

I'm in the third winter of switching over to switching over to running synthetic in my small engines. The three Onan's and 23hp Kohler have been starting easy and doing well on 5w-40 Rotella T-6.
This fall after doing the hydraulic work on the 448 I also used the 5w40 t6 in the hydraulic system. So far it's working good, cranks easy, starts good.
Tim

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:55 am Yeah @MattA , my 226 with the Onan B43M, engine was strong. Sold it a while ago as a package with all kinds of attachments. It was a good looking tractor, with those wide wheels at the back, black frame, and beefy looking hood.

Wow! That was an awesome looking machine @Eugen

RoamingGnome wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 5:53 pm
Wow! That was an awesome looking machine @Eugen

I can tell you I regretted selling it for a long time. I just had no idea at the time what I got. It was also the model with the valve that doesn't let you go fast downhill.

I personally do not get involved in oil discussions. My belief is any oil is better than no oil. I keep maintenance records in a book of all maintenance and changes I do. Getting old and to many GT’s to remember what was done. Harry

So we just did a video kind of on this, we also have individual videos on engine oil changes and what we use and why as well as hydros and rear videos. This last one was a cold start one with different machines and different oil. It was not super cold but 10 degrees. We also did a un scientific flow video using different weights and brands of oil at around 0 last year. We use many different weights as we have many machines. But lots of 15-40 mainly in units we sell to customers as its easy, readily available and fairly affordable. In service machines for customers we give them options. Our own machines we use lots of 20-50, 15-40, 5-50 racing oil, 15-40, 5-40 diesel oil we run all these in engines, hydros and rears. Racing and diesel because of very high zinc, we use lots of Schaeffers brand as its top quality, highest amounts of zinc and molly. We also use 15-50 in the Vanguards mainly. In personal machines we run gear oil in the rears, I feel its the best option but absolutely not necessary, heavy motor oils work fine in the rears as well. As seen in video key is letting any of them warm up long enough and leave RPMS low until some heat is into engine and system. No one correct answer many different things work for many different folks.Video here https://youtu.be/bjaqnxMvIxs?si=DYSkNhCgkEzRcjLS https://youtu.be/bjaqnxMvIxs?si=DYSkNhCgkEzRcjLS

Guys, staying out of this debate! got me banned from another site!!! Want to know more just PM me. Oh I will say I spent almost 3 years researching just this subject.

Ray

ras101 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2024 11:43 am Guys, staying out of this debate! got me banned from another site!!! Want to know more just PM me. Oh I will say I spent almost 3 years researching just this subject.

Ray

Ray, I would like to thank you for your contributions here. We are here a friendly bunch and if we disagree on something we certainly will do it in a civilized manner. Whatever happens elsewhere (in Vegas) stays there. Let's all have fun with our tractors and keep it good!

Thank you Eugen! I know I have fun here too and love sharing what and where I am too.

So OK, here's my take on fluids. remember this is perhaps now a 4 might even be a 5 year quest to understand oils, there use, and viscosity too.

Short answer to anyone's question is there are ONLY a couple of oil types! Natural and synthetic. Yeah there are oils that have additives and there are others that are used elsewhere too. Bottom line is that Synthetic oils are the BEST in every category. Why because they are DESIGNED for the job and not manipulated to meet a requirement! This is not only true for your GT's but also your cars too. I spent many years, I mean 50+ years, changing my oil in my car, at least summer and winter, using conventional oils and rightly so! Summer oils were totally different to my winter needs. Not only did the viscosity change between seasons but the oil got tired too. So why change now? Well the short answer is you don't have too! So why ? Well we are changing our oils well before we need too and if we don't we are wearing are starters and engine out faster too.
Conventional oils need additives to perform correctly! If you buy a conventional 20/50 oil it starts with the SAME oil that would be used to start a 10/30 oil, etc. It's the ADDITIVES that manage the transition to the correct viscosity (thickness) and NOT the oil itself. If we examine a synthetic oil in comparison you will/should see that the oil is MADE originally to the viscosity. There are many website/articles on just this very subject. So that said...

Our GT's NEED a constant viscosity oil. At the time our GTs were made the synthetic oils were in their infancy and were really not available, cheaply either. Yeah we could/still can change out our oils every 6 months or so in our engines and our hydraulics and yes that would work fine...not where I am though!

In addition to synthetic oils being the correct viscosity without additives there is another issue with conventional oils when compared. Conventional oils change rapidly negative when the engine gets HOT!!! Remember here guys that our engines are AIR COOLED ! they get hotter than say water cooled engines, surprise! conventional oil breaks down with heat! synthetic does NOT.
I change my oil less than once EVERY 3 years! I use synthetic! For my hydraulics I use 5/50 Mobil 1 year round. For my B&S and also my Onan 18HP I use 5/30. This is the first and also the last time I will be talking on this subject... Still need information its going to be OFF LIne via PM.

Ray

Another thing about oils that most don't get is the span.. I.e, 10/20, 20/50, etc. When we look at this "range" what do you think? It's cold therefore the higher number is the most important so in cold weather lets keep that as low as possible? If that's where you are you are WRONG! the lower number defines the cold starting point! So I drive a Subaru and my oil is 0/20 year round. When I start my engine from cold no matter what time of year it might be if it is less than 32 degrees F my oil will be at 0. If my outside temp is above that my oil will be thicker, might be 5 or 6 or even more dependent on the temperature. Why is that so important? most people think of it the other way round!!

So lets talk engines first.. I change my oil perhaps once a year sometimes its longer. Yeah I make sure that there are no leaks, that I'm not burning oil either too. I change to Synthetic every time! Check you engine spec for it's viscosity (I run ONAN and also B&S and yes they are different) but also the same with all that I'm saying here. Synthetic oil will make your life easy!

For hydraulics the SAME applies to most extent. For hydraulics, I live in WNY where temperatures range for -5 to 100 degrees again I change my oil only possibly 3-5 years! I use a multi weight (5-50) synthetic oil too. Why because it does not change! when the engine is cold it provides the less stress on the engine when cold and allows easy starts. As the oil heats the viscosity increases to the maximum and provides torque for the snowblower, etc.

Ray

@ras101 Ray I don’t think you have to worry about big arguments here. We may disagree on this or that but like @Eugen said we all manage to stay respectful and civil.

Interesting observations, I’ve honestly never looked into it as much as you have. I’ve seen the back and forth on oils on other sites and just passed it by, no interest in getting involved in that mess!
I’m still using conventional Shell Rotella in my Case GTs. But I have so many different makes and models of tractors around here my oil supply looks like the shelf at the auto parts store! Some of this for this tractor some of that for that tractor etc. I’ve been thinking of simplifying what oils I use, might be time I look in synthetics.

I must confess to being a recovered oilaholic. Used to be obsessed with which oil to use, reading tonnes on bob's the oil guy. Still like the subject, but I'm just a little more relaxed. Ray, you make good points!