The Fluids Debate

[CaseIngersollNE]

So we just did a video kind of on this, we also have individual videos on engine oil changes and what we use and why as well as hydros and rear videos. This last one was a cold start one with different machines and different oil. It was not super cold but 10 degrees. We also did a un scientific flow video using different weights and brands of oil at around 0 last year. We use many different weights as we have many machines. But lots of 15-40 mainly in units we sell to customers as its easy, readily available and fairly affordable. In service machines for customers we give them options. Our own machines we use lots of 20-50, 15-40, 5-50 racing oil, 15-40, 5-40 diesel oil we run all these in engines, hydros and rears. Racing and diesel because of very high zinc, we use lots of Schaeffers brand as its top quality, highest amounts of zinc and molly. We also use 15-50 in the Vanguards mainly. In personal machines we run gear oil in the rears, I feel its the best option but absolutely not necessary, heavy motor oils work fine in the rears as well. As seen in video key is letting any of them warm up long enough and leave RPMS low until some heat is into engine and system. No one correct answer many different things work for many different folks.Video here https://youtu.be/bjaqnxMvIxs?si=DYSkNhCgkEzRcjLS https://youtu.be/bjaqnxMvIxs?si=DYSkNhCgkEzRcjLS

[ras101]

Guys, staying out of this debate! got me banned from another site!!! Want to know more just PM me. Oh I will say I spent almost 3 years researching just this subject.

Ray

[Eugen]

Guys, staying out of this debate! got me banned from another site!!! Want to know more just PM me. Oh I will say I spent almost 3 years researching just this subject.

Ray

Ray, I would like to thank you for your contributions here. We are here a friendly bunch and if we disagree on something we certainly will do it in a civilized manner. Whatever happens elsewhere (in Vegas) stays there. Let's all have fun with our tractors and keep it good!

[ras101]

Thank you Eugen! I know I have fun here too and love sharing what and where I am too.

So OK, here's my take on fluids. remember this is perhaps now a 4 might even be a 5 year quest to understand oils, there use, and viscosity too.

Short answer to anyone's question is there are ONLY a couple of oil types! Natural and synthetic. Yeah there are oils that have additives and there are others that are used elsewhere too. Bottom line is that Synthetic oils are the BEST in every category. Why because they are DESIGNED for the job and not manipulated to meet a requirement! This is not only true for your GT's but also your cars too. I spent many years, I mean 50+ years, changing my oil in my car, at least summer and winter, using conventional oils and rightly so! Summer oils were totally different to my winter needs. Not only did the viscosity change between seasons but the oil got tired too. So why change now? Well the short answer is you don't have too! So why ? Well we are changing our oils well before we need too and if we don't we are wearing are starters and engine out faster too.
Conventional oils need additives to perform correctly! If you buy a conventional 20/50 oil it starts with the SAME oil that would be used to start a 10/30 oil, etc. It's the ADDITIVES that manage the transition to the correct viscosity (thickness) and NOT the oil itself. If we examine a synthetic oil in comparison you will/should see that the oil is MADE originally to the viscosity. There are many website/articles on just this very subject. So that said...

Our GT's NEED a constant viscosity oil. At the time our GTs were made the synthetic oils were in their infancy and were really not available, cheaply either. Yeah we could/still can change out our oils every 6 months or so in our engines and our hydraulics and yes that would work fine...not where I am though!

In addition to synthetic oils being the correct viscosity without additives there is another issue with conventional oils when compared. Conventional oils change rapidly negative when the engine gets HOT!!! Remember here guys that our engines are AIR COOLED ! they get hotter than say water cooled engines, surprise! conventional oil breaks down with heat! synthetic does NOT.
I change my oil less than once EVERY 3 years! I use synthetic! For my hydraulics I use 5/50 Mobil 1 year round. For my B&S and also my Onan 18HP I use 5/30. This is the first and also the last time I will be talking on this subject... Still need information its going to be OFF LIne via PM.

Ray

[ras101]

Another thing about oils that most don't get is the span.. I.e, 10/20, 20/50, etc. When we look at this "range" what do you think? It's cold therefore the higher number is the most important so in cold weather lets keep that as low as possible? If that's where you are you are WRONG! the lower number defines the cold starting point! So I drive a Subaru and my oil is 0/20 year round. When I start my engine from cold no matter what time of year it might be if it is less than 32 degrees F my oil will be at 0. If my outside temp is above that my oil will be thicker, might be 5 or 6 or even more dependent on the temperature. Why is that so important? most people think of it the other way round!!

So lets talk engines first.. I change my oil perhaps once a year sometimes its longer. Yeah I make sure that there are no leaks, that I'm not burning oil either too. I change to Synthetic every time! Check you engine spec for it's viscosity (I run ONAN and also B&S and yes they are different) but also the same with all that I'm saying here. Synthetic oil will make your life easy!

For hydraulics the SAME applies to most extent. For hydraulics, I live in WNY where temperatures range for -5 to 100 degrees again I change my oil only possibly 3-5 years! I use a multi weight (5-50) synthetic oil too. Why because it does not change! when the engine is cold it provides the less stress on the engine when cold and allows easy starts. As the oil heats the viscosity increases to the maximum and provides torque for the snowblower, etc.

Ray

[JSinMO]

@ras101 Ray I don’t think you have to worry about big arguments here. We may disagree on this or that but like @Eugen said we all manage to stay respectful and civil.

Interesting observations, I’ve honestly never looked into it as much as you have. I’ve seen the back and forth on oils on other sites and just passed it by, no interest in getting involved in that mess!
I’m still using conventional Shell Rotella in my Case GTs. But I have so many different makes and models of tractors around here my oil supply looks like the shelf at the auto parts store! Some of this for this tractor some of that for that tractor etc. I’ve been thinking of simplifying what oils I use, might be time I look in synthetics.

[Eugen]

I must confess to being a recovered oilaholic. Used to be obsessed with which oil to use, reading tonnes on bob's the oil guy. Still like the subject, but I'm just a little more relaxed. Ray, you make good points!