Colt Case Ingersoll Garden Tractors

Got a trencher backhoe the other day.

Background story
I have been looking for a 600 series Case loader with backhoe for the last three years, but have not seen one for sale in that time anywhere in Ontario. Was able to buy one fully functioning 644 about a year and a half ago, and a parts one a few months ago. But a backhoe sized for the 644 has been elusive.

A few days ago I noticed a device on the market place, with what seemed to be a small size backhoe on it. The device was listed as a Davis/Case 500 trencher. At first I paid no attention to it, as it looked in pretty bad shape, and I didn't clue in to the Davis name, who made the backhoe for the Case LBH series. Somehow the penny dropped and did a search on the device, indeed the backhoe was a Davis model D100. The price was definitely in the range where only the backhoe would be worth it to me, as it would save me from building one as I was planning to do. It also helped that it was not too far from me (2 hours North).

Decided to get it, chatted with the seller on the phone, and we had an agreement on a price. Went there on Saturday, arrived around 12:30 as I had planned. The poor chap was gone to the nearest town to get himself medication, as he had a bout of bladder infection the night before and ended up in emergency. He had a field of all kind of cars and trucks and parts of trailers, and what not, like a wrecker yard, and I had two hours to browse his museum of valuable junk.

When he did show up, with a big JD diesel tractor, we got right on the task of loading. That ended up being quite an adventure in itself. This big monster could not lift the little trencher more than 6 inches off the ground. I already saw myself going back empty handed, because if that monster tractor couldn't lift it, what else?

Fortunately his neighbour had a Case 580L backhoe loader and was willing to come help. The two loaders teamed up and lifted the trencher just enough for me to drive the trailer under it, and the trencher was lowered onto the trailer. But the trouble was not over. The trencher was sitting too much to the rear of the trailer, and most of the weight was on the trailer axle causing the tongue to go up. There were moments of holding my breath as he pushed the trencher forward, little by little, until the weight was better distributed. At that point it has occurred to me that ever since I bought that trailer second hand, I never looked at the shape of the leaf springs and I was too afraid at this point to look. The 1750 each max load tires were overfilled already, yet they were slightly flattened. The guy looked under the trailer unprovoked and said "you got an inch and a half of clearance, don't go fast over speed bumps". Which was somewhat reassuring me that perhaps I'll make it home without an incident.

Load chains went on and I took off. Went slower than the traffic and stopped from time to time to check the temperature of the trailer tires and axles. They got warm(ish) but not hot. The trip home definitely was a little nerve wrecking, but thank God I made it safely.

The next day I was burning with curiosity whether my big Case 680E loader would be able to lift the trencher and unload it off the trailer. It did, but barely so. I could lift the trencher just about one inch above the trailer, and move it slowly until it got unloaded. That tells me that most likely the hydraulic pump on the big loader isn't in its prime.

The trencher is an interesting machine. Has an Onan J60-MS engine, from what I've read on the internet, often used in generators. 60 cubic inch displacement. The fellow told me it's seized and that he banged the hell out of it trying to get it loose; basically it's ruined. The rest of the machine is rusty to the extreme, not surface rust, but deeper rust. The backhoe has been patched with 1/4 and 1/2 inch plate in various places, obviously this machine has worked hard in its life. Many of the control valves levers are stuck, the hoses are cracked and pretty much destroyed. The backhoe ram rods are pitted/peppered.

That being said, I am excited to bring the backhoe back to life, but I don't think I'll be able to work on it until next year when the weather turns nicer. Not sure what I'll do with the rest of the machine. The kids like climbing on this already, so at the very least it's a neat playground artifact for them.

Hopefully this is just the beginning of the story. Let's see what the future holds for this heavy pile of rust. Thank you for reading.

It’s quite interesting! My first thought was let’s have a look at that engine. Fingers crossed that just because he couldn’t get it loose doesn’t mean you won’t.

My second thought was, wow we were talking about how to make a tracked 600 series not that long ago!
I know you just got it home, but are there any thoughts of using this and the project tractor to make one tracked loader backhoe? that’s my early vote! But of course im looking forward to updates no matter what direction you decide to take this!

It sure looks like a fun project!

Hurry up @Eugen get the 644 done and the backhoe fixed and mounted. I have a plan for the rest of the unit. it's going to be cool it will be tough on the yard but...
Tim

Start soaking those tracks with diesel fuel. Oh oh oh

JSinMO wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:58 pm It’s quite interesting! My first thought was let’s have a look at that engine. Fingers crossed that just because he couldn’t get it loose doesn’t mean you won’t.

Somewhere in the back of my mind there was this thought too. Usually it's the other way around it, the seller plays it up a bit. In this case he went to some length telling me about how he banged the heck out of this engine. Either or it'll be a pleasure taking it apart. Interesting engine this J60, which later was named JB and was used in gen sets. Two cylinders, 3-1/4 bore, and 3-5/8 stroke. Same bore as the BF-MS, but a whole inch longer stroke. 60 cubic inches, almost 1000cc. Maybe 20 hp?

My second thought was, wow we were talking about how to make a tracked 600 series not that long ago!
I know you just got it home, but are there any thoughts of using this and the project tractor to make one tracked loader backhoe? that’s my early vote! But of course im looking forward to updates no matter what direction you decide to take this!

It sure looks like a fun project!

As soon as I saw the tracks I surely thought of it . On the one hand there are some positives. Machinery like this made in the 70s are simpler. Heavy gauge steel too. On the other hand some parts are likely unobtainable.

Timj wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:49 pm Hurry up @Eugen get the 644 done and the backhoe fixed and mounted. I have a plan for the rest of the unit. it's going to be cool it will be tough on the yard but...
Tim

Start soaking those tracks with diesel fuel. Oh oh oh

Chop chop I'm on it Tim! I want to know what you have in mind. Yeah, the tracks eh? Soak them in diesel? Sure, hope the price of diesel goes down by next summer!

That was a terrific story Eugen, thanks for sharing it. It will be another story that we follow as you decide how to tackle this project.

Keep the
Harry

Awesome deal you got there. That will definitely be a nice project getting that backhoe put together on your loader. I think a little mini dozer would be awesome to make out of the remaining parts. (As long as you don't have a decent yard to ride over). My wife would kill me if I had a tracked machine around the house. Lol Can't wait to see the project come together.

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Eugen wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:27 am

Timj wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:49 pm Hurry up @Eugen get the 644 done and the backhoe fixed and mounted. I have a plan for the rest of the unit. it's going to be cool it will be tough on the yard but...
Tim

Start soaking those tracks with diesel fuel. Oh oh oh

Chop chop I'm on it Tim! I want to know what you have in mind. Yeah, the tracks eh? Soak them in diesel? Sure, hope the price of diesel goes down by next summer!

Oh it would be a project, but if the undercarriage isn't wore out and totally sized, this thing would be a good platform for a Case dozer.
Take the trencher off and scrap it. Remove the top and mount a Case chassis up top. Hook up the hydraulics and you have your very own yard tearing Mini- dozer.

Or drop it off by the Mad Tractor Builder and let it take up space in his shop.

https://struckcorp.com/products/magnatrac-mh8500/

Too many possibilities. Lol get that tractor going. Meanwhile we can all imagine a cool little machine to have around the house.

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Timj wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:57 am

Eugen wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:27 am

Timj wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:49 pm Hurry up @Eugen get the 644 done and the backhoe fixed and mounted. I have a plan for the rest of the unit. it's going to be cool it will be tough on the yard but...
Tim

Start soaking those tracks with diesel fuel. Oh oh oh

Chop chop I'm on it Tim! I want to know what you have in mind. Yeah, the tracks eh? Soak them in diesel? Sure, hope the price of diesel goes down by next summer!

Oh it would be a project, but if the undercarriage isn't wore out and totally sized, this thing would be a good platform for a Case dozer.
Take the trencher off and scrap it. Remove the top and mount a Case chassis up top. Hook up the hydraulics and you have your very own yard tearing Mini- dozer.

Or drop it off by the Mad Tractor Builder and let it take up space in his shop.

I appreciate the though and it would be a fun build but I already have too many non Case projects to finish so I can get back to the Case at hand .

Guys, I thought tracks were easier on the lawn than tires. Perhaps rubber tracks and not steel tracks. I'm lucky my wife doesn't care about the lawn, which we don't have much of anyway, having it replaced with a small garden. She only cares about the flower garden she has, and I must make sure her bulbs get taken care of, which I find very reasonable In fact I just provided compost and new soil right before the weather turned for some new bulbs she got.

As Tim said, if the track system is not ruined, it'd be a pity not to do something with it. It'll be fun trying to take this one apart for the refresh. I better do that while I still have the big backhoe, it's not like I can just jack it up a little to work under I'm thinking I'll roll it on its side to do any work underneath.

There isn't much above, the frame, which is really really thick. All it needs is to take the trencher chainsaw out, and put a seat on it. Anyway, it's a neat lawn ornament until next summer and more reason for my neighbours to question my sanity. To put things in perspective, judging by the number and size of equipment I now have, you guys probably think I live on acreage; when @FUTZ visited me about a month ago he was quite surprised I don't live on a farm. No, we live on a 100 by 100 feet lot. I still got room for a couple more tractors! Now you can question my sanity too.

I told my wife I wanted a project with tracks on it. First thing she said was, “it’ll tear the yard up!” Then I said we have loader tractors and a backhoe, and tractors to disc and harrow, so we can fix torn up ground! Then it hit me…I do live on a few acres and I have to many tractors too!
You haven’t lost your sanity….YET. You just need a little more ground to “work on”!

What an awesome project! Can't wait until a springtime update!

How's this for a little enter you guys? Needed a little therapy and took a look at that seized Onan J60/JB. I didn't record progress, decoupling the hydraulic pump was a bear. Was able to get three out of the four engine mount bolts. No access to the fourth yet. Ok, fine, can't just pull the engine out. At least the head wasn't that stuck.

The rocker dint look so bad. But both cylinders were full of water, rust, and sludge. Got the water out and wiped them a bit.

What do you guys think?

I look at the pictures of the cylinders and think, This engine can be saved.

I think it’s definitely worth a serious cleanup and evaluation. At first glance it looks rough, but it may clean up very nicely.
Is that just sludge stuck to the walls or rust? I have no doubt it’s my eyes, hard for me to tell. With water in it for who knows how long I think I’d be looking for cracks.
To me it’s worth tearing down and seeing what you have. Nothing ventured nothing lost!

Jeez louweez, don't leave an engine within 6 blocks of Eugen, he'll take it apart.

Hope you can save it.

@Timj 110% with you. @Eugen Must eat with a screwdriver in one hand and a wrench in the other, all the while doing voice to text.

I heard Eugen once climbed Mt Everest in 15 minutes, 14 of them he was at the base rebuilding his dog sled.

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"What do you guys think?"

I think, I wish I had your energy and ambition


Gordy

I got some good news and some bad news

Rust pitting but don't know how deep. The cylinder measured around 3.25 and the piston STD confirms it. Maybe, maybe, it can go 0.030 over.

The valves are just a little gummed up.

You need to get the engine out and do a full tear down . Until then fill the cylinders with varsol and cover . let sit for couple of days and see if you have weaping through sides . That will tell you if you have a cracked block or not .

I just went back and saw your comments, aren't you guys funny

On a serious note though it seems like a very cool engine, I'm not sure it's worth fixing ($$) as much as I hate letting an old engine go to scrap. Missing starter, hard to find parts and quite pricey when found. Pistons and all the new stuff plus the unknown bore work? Needs to be pulled out anyway, hopefully I'll find a way to get to that last engine mount bolt.

On the other hand I'm thinking that I should better start with the backhoe, as that would be rather useful to have working even if not on the tracked chassis.

Here's some more food for thought. Seemed to me interesting that both pistons are seized at about the same depth in the cylinder. What the hey, let's measure, me thinks. We know that stroke is 3.625 for this engine. But both pistons are exactly at 2.67 inches deep from the top of the block! So I did a quick search for what the crankshaft looks like. Oooh! Aaah!




So this is like one big cylinder engine really! cool or not?

I would say that engine is a torque monster for sure. Harry

Definitely interesting, haven't seen that before. Just like 2 one lungers coupled together.

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:40 am Here's some more food for thought. Seemed to me interesting that both pistons are seized at about the same depth in the cylinder. What the hey, let's measure, me thinks. We know that stroke is 3.625 for this engine. But both pistons are exactly at 2.67 inches deep from the top of the block! So I did a quick search for what the crankshaft looks like. Oooh! Aaah!


Screenshot 2023-03-10 at 11.35.40.png




So this is like one big cylinder engine really! cool or not?

Yes and no . I would say if you look and the cam the lobes from one cylinder to the next are 180 degrees out from each other . They may be both up or both down but they will be 360 degree apart in the firing order . A four stroke takes 720 degrees to make one full cycle . Like the Onan Horizontal twin . While both go in and out at the same time they are both not firing at the same time .

I had a Lincoln Welder powered by a thd Wisconsin engine. Both went up and down at the same time but as David mentioned the firing was opposite. It was a hand crank magneto start. I sold it because I wasn’t using it anymore. Harry

As I said, it seemed to be a good idea to start taking the backhoe off. It attaches to the machine with four big pins. Was able to take the upper two off, but had poor access to the lower once below the machine. Plus the backhoe seems to be really heavy. Decided to start taking it apart. It was a beautiful sunny day. The snow is still not melted, so it was really hard to get the 644 there to help me lift the backhoe. Got stuck several times.

It didn't go fast. This thing must've been out in the open for many years. Pins, clips, everything severely rusted. Sprayed most parts since yesterday with rust spray, but still was hard. Eventually got the dipper off. One silver lining I guess, clean red oil came out of the bucket cylinder. With it off I lifted it up with the 644 and thought, off I go.


Didn't happen, as I got stuck in the snow. No matter what I did, chains under the tire, pulling with the 444, nothing worked. I gave up and unloaded the dipper and moved back pushing myself with the loader bucket and then just dragged the dipper along to where I had more traction where I could lift it up with the bucket and bring it next to the work area.


It was around 4PM and I went in to spend time with the kids, then a long walk with the family, dinner, kids to bed, and it got 10:30 or so. Thought I would end the day with a bang. It turns out it was more than one bang, as I wrestled two big pins. Once they came out I was able to pull the cylinder a little away from the dipper body and clean the gland area. I do not have this type of wrench, so now I'm looking.

From the condition of those notches, it looks like someone got in that cylinder with a hammer and punch before... I'm not sure the "right" wrench would grab on nicely any more.

A spanner wrench is a hook shaped wrench. Using a punch and hammer is what was probably used and could be used again. Harry

Eugen, I have about 15 spanner wrenches. 1 should fit your gland nut. I have a job coming up at Atlantic in about a week.

Yes, found an OTC spanner wrench of decent quality on amazon for about 100. Not pulling the trigger year.

@Toolslinger yes, I still hope the spanner wrench can do it.

@Spike188 thank you for the offer, normally I do not refuse borrowing a tool but when hammers or extension pipes are involved I must refuse, I'd hate wrecking a friend's tool.

I'll figure something out.

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:35 am Yes, found an OTC spanner wrench of decent quality on amazon for about 100. Not pulling the trigger year.

@Toolslinger yes, I still hope the spanner wrench can do it.

@Spike188 thank you for the offer, normally I do not refuse borrowing a tool but when hammers or extension pipes are involved I must refuse, I'd hate wrecking a friend's tool.

I'll figure something out.

Eugen What is the out side diameter of the gland nut . I can show you how to make a wrench for them .

Thanks Dave, I'll measure and let you know. I think it's between 3 and 3.5"


This is the OTC tool, I'm thinking of making the hook from a piece of pliers, so it's a harder steel. And weld it to a piece of quarter inch plate.

@Eugen There is a way to make a tool that catches all 4 points at the same time from 1/4" plate .

@Eugen these spanner wrenches are seriously heavy duty. Old school from a garage sale. You gain points if you can break it. The offer is still on the table.

As others have said, it's not that hard to fabricate something to work as a one off spanner wrench - every heavy shop I've worked in has a stash of "special" hand made tooling (always hidden from the Health and Safety guys - 'cause... you know...)

Piece of plate steel with a notch cut out to go around the rod, holes drilled for hardened key stock welded on the backside to give you the "Teeth" to match up with the notches - and you can put an old bit of rubber hose or something similar around the rod for protection in case the spanner slips so you don't dent the chrome.

More challenging ones have round pin holes in the face of the gland - same idea just using hardened bolts - cut the threads off and use the remaining solid shank for the pin...

If the notches are really bad and you can't get a grip most every hydraulic shop will just break out a big assed pipe wrench (or ViseGrip chain wrench) and grab the sides

RoamingGnome wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:30 pm As others have said, it's not that hard to fabricate something to work as a one off spanner wrench - every heavy shop I've worked in has a stash of "special" hand made tooling (always hidden from the Health and Safety guys - 'cause... you know...)

Piece of plate steel with a notch cut out to go around the rod, holes drilled for hardened key stock welded on the backside to give you the "Teeth" to match up with the notches - and you can put an old bit of rubber hose or something similar around the rod for protection in case the spanner slips so you don't dent the chrome.

More challenging ones have round pin holes in the face of the gland - same idea just using hardened bolts - cut the threads off and use the remaining solid shank for the pin...

If the notches are really bad and you can't get a grip most every hydraulic shop will just break out a big assed pipe wrench (or ViseGrip chain wrench) and grab the sides

Up scaled version of the old angle grinder wrench used for getting the wheel nut off


Gordy

Thank you @Spike188 for the offer, and everyone else for the ideas. As it's not an urgent thing to do, I'll think about it for a little and see how I'll proceed.

@Eugen If needed I have this pipe wrench and a regular 36" pipe wrench to with it . These take a real man to handle them , that is why they are covered in dust on the shelf . Seriously these are industrial tools given to me by a neighbour down sizing . I nothing invested in them ,but can't through them out . I would sooner see people borrow them so them get used .

@DavidBarkey , a 36" diameter pipe wrench ! You think I'm a giant?

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:12 am @DavidBarkey , a 36" diameter pipe wrench ! You think I'm a giant?

36" long . each

The chain wrench gave me an idea.... I think I might try that, and see if one or two links get lucky and line up with the notches so you could insert some key stock, or hard pins through to engage.

Thanks @Toolslinger , it's a good idea. I'm taking a break from fixing stuff, shattered my thumb trying to drive this stubborn pin out.

At first I was being careful and used a 3/4 rod held in place with a magnet to hit with the big sledgehammer. I kept missing or hitting it slightly on the edge and then the rod would fly. Once into my shin. The pin moved only a little. Then I got the "brilliant" idea to use a shorter rod with the 3lb mallet, as I felt having more control. Turns out it took only one miss to smash the thumb.

Oh... I'm so sorry Eugen, I can visualize exactly how that happened...

There are a couple of different tools used in heavy equipment shops for that situation - and ALWAYS use eye protection - When I worked at Toromont CAT their proper PPE for using a hammer heavier than 10lbs was safety glasses, full face shield, gloves, hearing protection and a leather apron - the face shield and leather apron were to protect from chunks flying off the hammer or pin

One is a pin driver/hammer - same idea/weight as a sledge hammer but with a pin forged on one side - that makes it a two man operation - one holds the pin hammer against the pin, and then the trust worthy 2nd person hits the flat side of the pin driver with a regular sledge hammer (the home made solution is to weld a 3' length of pipe to a length of round rod so one person can hold it and stay out of harms way when the other person is swinging the real sledge hammer)
Second solution is a "Slide Sledge" Pricey tool - but it lets you pound out a pin by yourself - it's like a slide puller working in reverse -
YouTube Video attached - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSZbCPDQ6iI

Third solution is to improvise and use a "Swing Hammer" - Heaviest piece of steel you can find - (like an old truck axle shaft / big chunk of round bar stock) suspend the "hammer" with strap/rope from your loader bucket (or a step ladder if you are working near the ground). Get it hanging horizontal and level with the pin you want to hit - the idea is to pull it back and let it swing in an arc against the pin, like a pendulum - just using momentum and the weight of the bar to act like a hammer. Because it is suspended you don't get as tired as if you were swinging a sledge hammer -

@Eugen i know it going to be awhile for you to heal up, my heart sank when I saw the x-ray.
I was thinking when you can get back to this, would some heat around the pin and then rig up a bottle jack to press the pin out work? I was thinking of using the bucket of you big Case to push against. Just a thought.

Clearly I should run by you guys whatever I am going to do. It was a mistake not to ask for help. I suppose it was encouraging to drive three pins out before this happened. And all three were hard to come out, but the last one was in a different category. Also, why did I not stop when I knew my arm got tired, and I even thought that when you're tired and visibility is poor (was getting dark) that's when most accidents happen. Not only, but about a minute before I even thought "look at me, managed to get a lot of pounding with the mallet and no injury, yay!" Lots of red flags, but I didn't clue in.

What can I say, lesson learned, hopefully.

@Eugen When you are ready to get back at it . Come see me and I will help you make a drive pin holder . Super cheap and easy . Just need a few sizes off the machine .

Another option would be to use a pair of vice grips or pliers to hold the steel rod your pounding on. I've done it but on a much smaller scale than what your doing.

The thumb pain is less annoying so I thought I relax a little trying to disassemble the cylinders. I was stomped a little by this inner locking ring that holds the gland in place. As is there was absolutely no way to get to it.


With help from @Spike188 I figured the gland has to be pushed in far enough. Didn't go in easy, I used a copper hammer to whack the gland all around 'til it went in far enough to reach that ring. Tough ring too.

The rod came out then.

@Eugen Glad to hear your thumb is a little better, and your able to make some progress.
I’m enjoying the work you @Spike188 and @thebuildist are doing on your backhoes.
It’s making me want to bring mine back into the shop for a little sprucing up too! Hopefully I can work it into the rotation later this year.

Anouther way to draw in that type of gland for removing the ring . Is to fill the top end with gear oil or the heaviest weight oil you have . Burp ALL air out and seal with appropriate cap . You only need a couple of inches of oil between the piston and gland . Stand upright and put more oil or grease on shaft and around gland to air seal . Cylinders small enough to pick up by hand , pick up and bang the bottom on an piece of hardwood . The enercia of the rod assembly when hitting the floor will draw the glad with it as the fluid creates a vacuum between the piston and gland. The larger ones use a hd ratchet strap looped around it and or a BFH and block of wood . Sorry guys about being late to the party , I don't always think of these things untill after people are done fighting with stuff .

Thanks Dave! It's a good procedure to remember for next time.

Or, if you're built like I am, you just put your thumb on the gland and "push on 'er pretty good."

yep, nope

Wish I had a press of sorts for this task

Cylinder 2 and 3 done taken apart, 2 was a bear, done over three days bit at a time, 3 was easy, done in about an hour.



Next I need to get the pistons and glands off, and start measurements to figure out which seals and o-rings to get.

After that tackle the swing cylinder(s).

@Eugen I have no doubt your still hurting, way to power through it!
Great job getting it apart. Looks like you’ll be reassembling pretty quick.

Doesn't hurt much anymore Jeff.


After the kids were asleep I managed to get the pistons off of two rods. The nut holding the piston takes a 1-11/16 socket, which I don't have. Luckily, after heating it up, it came undone real easy with the 30" pipe wrench.

Piston, gland, seals, and o-rings ready to go inside and get measured. But not tonight. Time for

My nemesis pin was driven out. Pounded halfway to one side, the ground some of the part of the pin that was out, and the interior of the bushing that was emptied. Then drove it back all the way out and it wasn't even that hard.



No pictures, but the three cylinders and rods are completely disassembled, and all seal and o-ring sizes determined and added to the cart on hercules. Would have liked to get the swing cylinders out too but it's not possible now. I'll expand on this later.

Pulled out the hydraulic hoses too. They've seen better days for sure.



Splitting the hoe assembly from the trencher though, big trouble there.

That’s great work@Eugen !
I’m glad you were able to get your revenge on that pin!

I’m not sure if you are someone else has been able to list o-ring and seal sizes for these backhoe cylinders and the front bucket dump and lift cylinders. If not could you show them when you can? I appreciate it!

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:09 am Doesn't hurt much anymore Jeff.


After the kids were asleep I managed to get the pistons off of two rods. The nut holding the piston takes a 1-11/16 socket, which I don't have. Luckily, after heating it up, it came undone real easy with the 30" pipe wrench.

Piston, gland, seals, and o-rings ready to go inside and get measured. But not tonight. Time for


D0D4C4F0-B3E5-4582-8CE1-59B110044D4E.jpeg

A trick I have used a few times with those odd ball nut and bolt sizes or big metric sizes, is to carefully measure and bend some steel banding to fit the nut so a bigger socket I have will fit. One time it took 2 layers of banding to get a good fit I call it a socket bushing


Gordy

great idea!

Maybe you could cover the nut with saran wrap, and then stick the big socket on there and then fill the cavity with something really hard/solid. Like some kind of concrete or grout.

Probably still not as good as steel though.

Bob

I can't tell for sure but it looks like most of your hydraulic hoses might have field repairable ends. If so you can take them off and put them on new hose yourself.

Timj wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:11 am I can't tell for sure but it looks like most of your hydraulic hoses might have field repairable ends. If so you can take them off and put them on new hose yourself.

Good eye . Yes they sure do look like that . Just need to source the right type and size hose .
@Eugen I have done these before . i can walk you through the dos and don't if you like .

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:54 am

Timj wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:11 am I can't tell for sure but it looks like most of your hydraulic hoses might have field repairable ends. If so you can take them off and put them on new hose yourself.

Good eye . Yes they sure do look like that . Just need to source the right type and size hose .
@Eugen I have done these before . i can walk you through the dos and don't if you like .

I have a drill that had them on the hydraulics. Over the years we mostly replaced them but saved all the ends. With the crazy prices for having hoses made up, I think I'm going to get some of the proper hose and go back to them. They are actually pretty handy.

Thanks guys, have no idea about those field replaceable ends.

Did more yesterday. Eventually took the gear off by force, could not get those set screws out.

Stuck on getting access to the lower backhoe mounts.

Great pics of your project Eugen! Harry

Here's a close up of the end of the hose. Is it what you think it is?

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 1:53 pm Here's a close up of the end of the hose. Is it what you think it is?


E9546D01-FEEF-471E-A3E5-40CA7A049154.jpeg

I think so, there was some old crimped on fittings that looked like that too.
The field repairable are like this: See if you can unscrew the inner part out of the outer. Then the outer will unscrew off the hose. The ones I have the outers are left hand thread.

JSinMO wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:32 pm That’s great work@Eugen !
I’m glad you were able to get your revenge on that pin!

I’m not sure if you are someone else has been able to list o-ring and seal sizes for these backhoe cylinders and the front bucket dump and lift cylinders. If not could you show them when you can? I appreciate it!

Thank you Jeff! I do not know of anyone to have listed the right parts for these cylinders, but I intend to make it public as soon as I have the full list, just like I did for the 644 loader. The list of seals and o-ring I used on my 644 loader cylinders are in that thread but I'll send it to you if you need it so you don't have to search for it. I don't know if over the years the same cylinders were used on all loaders though.

One thing about the backhoe, it had several very different types of cylinders. Can you show me a picture of the top of the gland on yours? It may be different than mine. Mine is this one:
Have a look at this manual on page 48, and see which of the cylinders you have. Look at the way the gland is locked in.

http://eastmanind.com.mytempweb.com/Lin ... &tabid=196

Thanks @Timj , I'll try to unscrew one and see what's what. Maybe I got lucky.

What kind of wizard are you @Timj !?

I'd have thrown them in the dump. If I can use them it'll certainly save me some $$

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:00 pm What kind of wizard are you @Timj !?


F2517269-C2FF-46A5-8B64-E25107D4314E.jpeg

I'd have thrown them in the dump. If I can use them it'll certainly save me some $$

There's hose that's spec'd for using them. Yes if you can reuse them you should save some bucks, bulk hose isn't too bad compared to made up lines.
I don't know how they are with that across the border shipping and fees but I used Discount Hydraulic hose.com last year when I was doing the selector valve, very reasonable. I like the local Carquest, they usually have what I need and make it while I wait but Discount was a third the price and spot on. Four days from out east.

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 2:32 pm

JSinMO wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:32 pm That’s great work@Eugen !
I’m glad you were able to get your revenge on that pin!

I’m not sure if you are someone else has been able to list o-ring and seal sizes for these backhoe cylinders and the front bucket dump and lift cylinders. If not could you show them when you can? I appreciate it!

Thank you Jeff! I do not know of anyone to have listed the right parts for these cylinders, but I intend to make it public as soon as I have the full list, just like I did for the 644 loader. The list of seals and o-ring I used on my 644 loader cylinders are in that thread but I'll send it to you if you need it so you don't have to search for it. I don't know if over the years the same cylinders were used on all loaders though.

One thing about the backhoe, it had several very different types of cylinders. Can you show me a picture of the top of the gland on yours? It may be different than mine. Mine is this one:

Screenshot 2023-04-02 at 14.26.37.png

Have a look at this manual on page 48, and see which of the cylinders you have. Look at the way the gland is locked in.

http://eastmanind.com.mytempweb.com/Lin ... &tabid=196

No need to dig up the specs for the front end loader yet. I’m not ready to pull it into the shop and start in on it. Since I got it going and started using it all of the cylinders are now either weeping or outright leaking. I’ll have to remember to look on your 644 thread when I get ready to work on it. Or I may ask you again if I forget!

On the backhoe all my cylinders look to be the same. Looks like the hoses mount the same and the glands all look like this.

@JSinMO That's a different looking gland cap than mine. When the time comes you take it apart and I can show you how I measure mine. All you need is calipers, quite easy as it's very very unlikely that you don't have standard sizes o-rings and seals. The standard sizes are quite different in measurements so it's really hard to mess it up, in my opinion.

You could also take it all disassembled to a local hydraulic shop and they'll figure it out. I like doing it myself but not everyone is like that.

I think that's the kind you're supposed to remove with a hammer and a flathead screwdriver. You put the tip of the screwdriver in one of those four holes and pound it in a counterclockwise fashion.

On reassembly for proper torquing you have to use a certain size hammer swung from a certain distance to get the gland just to a certain tightness...

@JSinMO a quick look and it looks like you have the G34186 cylinder and the kit for it is 1543313C1 so maybe it's really easy for you to get that.

@thebuildist well, I do have the right tool for that, but Jeff is far away from me but it's pretty cheap. There are two sizes, model 1266 and 7463. I got the pair from amazon, but you could get only the size you need. The little one goes up to glands 3-3/4 diameter.

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:54 am Good eye . Yes they sure do look like that . Just need to source the right type and size hose .
@Eugen I have done these before . i can walk you through the dos and don't if you like .

Dave, do you think the fellow in Hillsdale might have the right hose?

Timj wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:55 pm There's hose that's spec'd for using them. Yes if you can reuse them you should save some bucks, bulk hose isn't too bad compared to made up lines.
I don't know how they are with that across the border shipping and fees but I used Discount Hydraulic hose.com last year when I was doing the selector valve, very reasonable. I like the local Carquest, they usually have what I need and make it while I wait but Discount was a third the price and spot on. Four days from out east.

Tried to figure out what type of hose is spec'd for these last night. Can't say I was successful

The old hose has written on it "Aeroquip - 1509 - size 6 - HP - 4Q79 - 1" and the fitting is stamped "1107" and under it "6". One thing is clear to me is that it's dash 6, that is ID 3/8. Did quite a few searches for the Aeroquip and the other things that are written on the hose, came empty.

Going at it logically, I'm thinking it has to be hose that is double steel mesh reinforced and to hold at least to 4000 psi, and the ID has to be 3/8. The thing that's a bit of a mystery is what OD it should be.

The number "1509" on the hose does seem like a type of hose from Aeroquip, as they do have for instance 1503. But 1509 doesn't come up much, so maybe it's an old type of hose. Found some specs for it with OD of 0.84". Went and measured the old hose, indeed it is 0.84 outer diameter. Yay!

Maybe a coincidence, but the 100R2 hose which is double steel mesh reinforced and operating max pressure of more than 4000 psi also has OD 0.84. At this point I'm thinking that's the type of hose to use, but it would be nice to be 100% sure. I would not buy and use hose with such uncertainty. This one needs more digging

Well, it turns out that not all 100R2AT hose is outer diameter 0.84, the one at discounthydraulic.com is 0.75 OD.

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:10 am

Timj wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:55 pm There's hose that's spec'd for using them. Yes if you can reuse them you should save some bucks, bulk hose isn't too bad compared to made up lines.
I don't know how they are with that across the border shipping and fees but I used Discount Hydraulic hose.com last year when I was doing the selector valve, very reasonable. I like the local Carquest, they usually have what I need and make it while I wait but Discount was a third the price and spot on. Four days from out east.

Tried to figure out what type of hose is spec'd for these last night. Can't say I was successful

The old hose has written on it "Aeroquip - 1509 - size 6 - HP - 4Q79 - 1" and the fitting is stamped "1107" and under it "6". One thing is clear to me is that it's dash 6, that is ID 3/8. Did quite a few searches for the Aeroquip and the other things that are written on the hose, came empty.

Going at it logically, I'm thinking it has to be hose that is double steel mesh reinforced and to hold at least to 4000 psi, and the ID has to be 3/8. The thing that's a bit of a mystery is what OD it should be.

The number "1509" on the hose does seem like a type of hose from Aeroquip, as they do have for instance 1503. But 1509 doesn't come up much, so maybe it's an old type of hose. Found some specs for it with OD of 0.84". Went and measured the old hose, indeed it is 0.84 outer diameter. Yay!

Maybe a coincidence, but the 100R2 hose which is double steel mesh reinforced and operating max pressure of more than 4000 psi also has OD 0.84. At this point I'm thinking that's the type of hose to use, but it would be nice to be 100% sure. I would not buy and use hose with such uncertainty. This one needs more digging

I'll do some looking later too. I know when looking at different hose I had ran into "approved for field repairable ends" I'm thinking it just needs the thick rubber outer jacket for the coupler to thread onto, not the thinner reinforced outer that is common today.

Timj wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:10 pm I'll do some looking later too. I know when looking at different hose I had ran into "approved for field repairable ends" I'm thinking it just needs the thick rubber outer jacket for the coupler to thread onto, not the thinner reinforced outer that is common today.

To make it a little more complicated, the Eaton 1509 seems to be a military spec hose and an equivalent hose is the Eaton 2766, also military spec and the outer diameter is 0.84-0.87. The popular double steel braid hose now is the SAE 100R2AT which has outer diameter 0.75 If these fittings were really made for the 0.84 diameter hose I would be worried using them with 0.75 OD.


For the record, here are pics of the markings on the fittings, which I could find nothing about though.

There are two types, identical in size but different markings.
1.

2.

Uh...

What's the OD of the hose that's currently attached in there?

Bob

thebuildist wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:18 pm Uh...

What's the OD of the hose that's currently attached in there?

Bob

exactly 0.84, just like the spec says for the eaton 1509-6 hose which is marked on it. I'm tempted to get a length of 100R2AT and use it on the loader for testing.

That seems reasonable to me. I'm not speaking from experience, but it seems like any two wire hydraulic hose with the 0.840D is going to work just fine.

And if I recall correctly 100 R2AT is rated for 8,000 PSI. You won't be running above 3,000, so you'll be way way within its limits.

Bob

Do you have a thread pitch gauge handy where you could tell me the The thread pitches on both the smaller visible thread and the larger internal thread inside that collar?

Bob

Sorry guys, I probably confused you all. Let me try to explain a little clearer.

The reusable fittings came installed with Eaton/Aeroequip 1509 hose, which seems to be in their military/marine catalog, and has 3/8 ID and 0.84 OD. Obviously this hose is not easy to find. Apart from the larger outer diameter it seems to have similar specs to the most widely used hydraulic hose, the SAE 100R2AT. Which is two wire braids and around 4000 psi operating pressure, for the 3/8 ID.

The problem is that the SAE 100R2AT hose has an outer diameter of 0.75.

Can't find any details about the fittings. If the fittings were correctly used with the right hose for them, I'm worried that a hose with smaller diameter might not provide proper coupling with the fittings. What's the chance that the fittings were spec'd for 100R2AT and they used thicker hose because that's what they had on hand?

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:56 am

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:54 am Good eye . Yes they sure do look like that . Just need to source the right type and size hose .
@Eugen I have done these before . i can walk you through the dos and don't if you like .

Dave, do you think the fellow in Hillsdale might have the right hose?

I would have too see a sample of the original hose . Anything is possible . PA might ,Simcoe Hose & Hydraulics, or Omniflex all in Barrie . On of them will have what you need . Do you have a chop saw ?

I do understand now.

According to DiscountHydraulicHose.com, SAE 100R2 reusable fittings are designed specifically for SAE 100R2AT hose. Full stop.
So if you can buy 100R2AT hose, then you fittings are designed for it.

Around here I can buy it at TractorSupply (TSC.COM), if you buy one of their generic "County Line" 24/36/48/60/96 inch hoses, they're built up using SAE 100R2AT. I just looked at them this weekend, as it turned out.

And they're pretty affordable, at least for around here.

$20 for a 36" 3/8 hose, $32 for the 96" version, sliding scale prices in between.





Bob

Any chance you can measure those thread pitches for me? I might need to manufacture a couple of those wiz-bang things.

Bob

@Eugen - My suggestion would be to call a local hydraulic shop and know a) your max Hyd system pressure, b) your inner and outer hose dimensions c) what fluid is going through the hose... they should be able to match up bulk one or two wire hose for you and give you as many feet as you need - for cutting small diameter hoses a zip cut works great, just make sure the ends are cut to a nice clean 90 degrees - and make sure to blow out the inside of the hose before putting the ends on. re-useable fittings are actually fairly common in lower pressure applications - under 4000 psi - ran into them on scissor/manlifts, smaller tractors and pilot or servo control hoses on bigger excavators.

thebuildist wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:31 pm Any chance you can measure those thread pitches for me? I might need to manufacture a couple of those wiz-bang things.

Bob

Here you go. The thread on the inside of the sleeve is left handed, and is not 60 degrees even, it is oriented like pike teeth to bite into the hose so it does not pull out easy. The depth of that thread seems to be 0.05.

Here's a mold of the inner biting thread using play dough.

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:13 pm
I would have too see a sample of the original hose . Anything is possible . PA might ,Simcoe Hose & Hydraulics, or Omniflex all in Barrie . On of them will have what you need . Do you have a chop saw ?

yes, I'll bring a piece next time I come by.

0.66 inches inner diameter of the teeth threads on the sleeve. The outer diameter of the part that goes into the hose is 0.55 inches. So the wall of the hose will be pressed in between (0.66-0.55)/2 = 0.055 inches. Now, the wall of the 100R2AT is (0.75-0.375)/2 = 0.1875 inches.

So a rubber/steel sandwich that is 0.1875 thick gets compressed in a space of 0.055 inches where each tooth of the thread reaches in, with parts of the rubber squeezed within 0.105. Might work just fine with 100R2AT. famous last words eh?

My other thinking is that reusable fitting made specially for the military would not be so easy to find.

Wish I had a fitting made for the 100R2AT to measure it.

Ok, I think I figured out how they used this thicker hose. They sliced it. Had this suspicion and opened one more fitting, carefully. The little dust that came out could not have been all the outer rubber that got squeezed.


Look at the thickness of the outer layer.

I've never been a 'Hoser' (Canadian pun); some of those hoses had to be skived (not sure of spelling); meaning you had to take off the outer cover, where the fitting connects. Were the old hoses skived?

Okay Eugen, your post just pop up when I posted, and yes looks like those hose end were skived.

Looks like 2-wire hose. So all you need is two wire hose, skive the end and your good to go. You will know if it doesn't work, the oil will squirt out

I think you're right @FUTZ !

The fittings are in pretty bad shape on the outside, rusted. I noticed that on some sides less rust and a letter on the bottom. Out of the many fittings I was able to clean and put together the stamping on the bottom. It says
"Stratoflex 6 2 WIR"

I got excited hoping to find the specs and true recommended hose for the type but it must be so old nothing comes up except that it's a Parker thing.

I looked a little closer at the ones I have. So they are for 1 wire hose.

I wish these machines could speak. I'd sit for hours listening to the stories this backhoe could tell. One day I'll show you all the welded patches it has. But here, for now look at this cylinder fittings. Clearly it's been outside for years.

You think that's bad? I thought so too, until I saw this one.


No wrench or pipe wrench could bite into what was left of that fitting. Some heat and chisel action got it moving.

Soon the other one's out too.

Why would there be a spring in there?

@Eugen the piping that runs the far end of the cylinder is a slip fit. The spring keeps the piping seated at the other end of the cylinder. There will be O-rings on both ends of the pipe.

Yep, the spring is right. It needs room to expand and contract a little with the change in temps.

https://manuals.ccigt.com/ServiceManual ... -50741.pdf Page 19 item #1 is the spring in question. Notice that tubing has and O-ring on each end. The tube is removed by drawing it through the threaded port.

Awesome! Thank you @Spike188 ! I'll put new o-rings them. Had no idea the tube was serviceable!

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 4:20 pm

thebuildist wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:31 pm Any chance you can measure those thread pitches for me? I might need to manufacture a couple of those wiz-bang things.

Bob

Here you go. The thread on the inside of the sleeve is left handed, and is not 60 degrees even, it is oriented like pike teeth to bite into the hose so it does not pull out easy. The depth of that thread seems to be 0.05.

99F05F5F-0918-42C1-AD13-8BB9A01DAEE9.jpeg

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar!

Btw that's called a "buttress" thread.


Bob

Here's a mold of the inner biting thread using play dough.


CD4BC2B5-5C48-41E1-B0CE-CEC48DC1458D.jpeg

Got two 44" pieces of new hose and put one of the fittings on for test. Didn't go easy, had to use quite some strength to screw it on. This is promising.

Congrats on getting the re-usable fittings to work @Eugen Looks Great! - It was my experience that leaving a tiny gap (1mm - 1/16") between the end of the hose and the inside of the fitting where it bottoms out gives the hose a little room to expand when the insert is being screwed in and some lube on the inner fitting can help too...

RoamingGnome wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:36 am Congrats on getting the re-usable fittings to work @Eugen Looks Great! - It was my experience that leaving a tiny gap (1mm - 1/16") between the end of the hose and the inside of the fitting where it bottoms out gives the hose a little room to expand when the insert is being screwed in and some lube on the inner fitting can help too...

Thanks for the tip Gerry, I will do that on the next one. I intend to try and hook the two hoses to the tiller maybe to test them on some pressure. I didn't mount the other 3 fittings on these two hoses yet because I'm playing with the idea of cleaning them up using electrolysis.

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:53 am

RoamingGnome wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:36 am Congrats on getting the re-usable fittings to work @Eugen Looks Great! - It was my experience that leaving a tiny gap (1mm - 1/16") between the end of the hose and the inside of the fitting where it bottoms out gives the hose a little room to expand when the insert is being screwed in and some lube on the inner fitting can help too...

Thanks for the tip Gerry, I will do that on the next one. I intend to try and hook the two hoses to the tiller maybe to test them on some pressure. I didn't mount the other 3 fittings on these two hoses yet because I'm playing with the idea of cleaning them up using electro-hydrolysis.

Then paint or nick plating for rust prevention?


Gordy

Hehe @Gordy , I'm not setup for nickel plating, that's hard. But zinc plating is quite easy and I'm setup for that. That's something I've been experimenting with. The only good source of zinc for me was to buy a zinc strap roll from home depot a couple of years ago. Then it cost close to $40, now it's more like $50. They use that as moss control on roofs. Just like electrolysis, you need a good voltage source, an old computer power supply can be used. For the bath solution I use water and some TSP or another type of soda. It's good to add a little detergent agent so that the plating is smooth. If there's interest, I once found this old paper that helped me. Then you hook the donor zinc piece in the bath, on the positive/anode wire of the power source, and the piece you need plated on the negative/cathode wire, in the bath. It's nice to have a variable power source though. Too much current leads to rough plating, as it goes too fast. I've successfully done copper, silver, and zinc plating. Once I silver plated the internals of the carburetor of my first boat. The guy I sold the boat to did not believe me.

Anyway, you got me to ramble...

Good ramble, but confused which gets hooked to the positive lead in the bath Since lead is out of favor for tire balancing, aren't the new weights made of zinc? I have some and can get more of them if they would work


Gordy

Positive of battery/power source is also called anode. Always you put the metal that donates on positive. The part that you want to plate always goes on the cathode, or the negative of the battery or voltage source. No idea if the new tire weights are made of zinc. Cadmium is also used for protection, but hey, where do I find cadmium?!


Here's the blurb from the article that helped me.

A. Zinc and Cadmium
Zinc and cadmium are generally plated on iron and steel substrates. These metals are primarily as a protection against corrosion because they provide a sacrificial coating, thus providing galvanic protection to exposed surfaces. As long as the coating of zinc or cadmium remains on the part it will tend to corrode prior to the ferrous substrate. Corrosion products of zinc tend to be white and frequently form a crust like structure. Cadmium, on the other hand, does not form crust like corrosion products.

Cadmium is used extensively in military and aircraft applications where it shows excellent effectiveness in a marine environment (high humidity and salt content). Recent federal regulations have virtually prohibited the use of cadmium for other applications due to the toxicity of the metal in industrial waste discharges.

Zinc is the most commonly plated metal for protecting iron and steel against corrosion. It is used extensively for nuts, bolts, screws, washers, springs, castings, and stamping. Zinc is also much less costly than is cadmium.

Both zinc and cadmium have a white or bluish-white color. In the case of both metals, the use of addition agents in the plating bath will provide an extremely bright deposit that resembles chromium in appearance.

Acid, alkaline, or cyanide baths can be used for plating these metals. Acid baths are used where effluent treatment is of prime concern and where a leveled deposit is desired. Alkaline and cyanide baths are used where throwing power is of prime importance. The use of an alkaline or low-cyanide bath has the added advantage of lower waste treatment costs.

Typical bath formulations are as follows.

1. Zinc Plating Baths

Acid Formulation
Zinc sulfate 120 g/liter
Potassium chloride 55 g/liter
Boric acid 5 g/liter
Addition agent 1/2-2% by volume
pH 3.5-4.2
Temperature 18-30°C
Cathode current density 50-80 A/ft2 (540-864 A/m2)

Alkaline Formulation
Zinc metal 15 g/liter
Sodium hydroxide 90 g/liter
Sodium carbonate 40 g/liter
Addition agent 1/4-1/2% by volume
Temperature 25-30°C
Cathode current density 5-80 A/ft2 (54-864 A/m2)

Thank You, This bit left me confused in the first thread. "Then you hook the donor zinc piece in the bath, on the positive lead of the power source, and the piece you need plated on the positive lead in the bath."


Gordy

@Eugen I will get you to set me up a plating station this summer .

Gordy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 12:29 pm Thank You, This bit left me confused in the first thread. "Then you hook the donor zinc piece in the bath, on the positive lead of the power source, and the piece you need plated on the positive lead in the bath."


Gordy

Oops, sorry, that was just fingers too fast on the keyboard. I fixed it.

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 12:31 pm @Eugen I will get you to set me up a plating station this summer .

For sure! What are you going to plate?

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 12:37 pm

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 12:31 pm @Eugen I will get you to set me up a plating station this summer .

For sure! What are you going to plate?

With doing restorations on these old machines it would nice to replate some of the small parts and hard to hardware . Just simple zink.

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:53 am
Thanks for the tip Gerry, I will do that on the next one. I intend to try and hook the two hoses to the tiller maybe to test them on some pressure. I didn't mount the other 3 fittings on these two hoses yet because I'm playing with the idea of cleaning them up using electrolysis.

I don't know if you or @DavidBarkey have a Princess Auto Hydraulic Porta-Power hand pump around the shop...
I have one left over from my working days - it combines a shut off valve, some test fittings, quick couplers and a pressure gauge on the hose. It makes life easier testing hyd. stuff (and actually seeing) how much pressure you have got. - I put this together when I was working in the shop - field service techs would borrow the shop one and often forget to bring it back, or bring it back busted. We'd use it to pressure test hydraulic brake assemblies after rebuilding them - (brakes on heavy equipment are usually dead man style "wet" brakes, - spring applied when the machine is off and then released with hydraulic pressure to move the machine)

@RoamingGnome @Eugen
Yes I do , A 4 ton and a big one I haven tried yet .

Ooh, that's a neat device @RoamingGnome , I don't have one. (yet)

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:07 pm @RoamingGnome @Eugen
Yes I do , A 4 ton and a big one I haven tried yet .

so testing a hose you plug it and then get the pressure high?

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:11 pm

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:07 pm @RoamingGnome @Eugen
Yes I do , A 4 ton and a big one I haven tried yet .

so testing a hose you plug it and then get the pressure high?

Be aware of all the safety precautions for working around pressurized hydraulic systems - you don't want to get a high pressure squirt of oil in your body - That being said... Yes, If you wanted to test how well the re-usable ends sealed - put a plug in one end of the hose and connect the other end to the pump (You can test resealed hyd. cylinders too... ) - gradually raise the pressure in the hose (or cylinder) to aprox. system working pressure and close the valve. come back in 10-15 mins and check to see if there is any pressure drop. Just be aware of the psi rating of the hose and fittings - you are checking for a leak - not trying to make a balloon out of the hose. - Once you have made a couple of hoses with re-usable ends you'll see it's pretty straightforward and probably won't feel the need to double check hoses - Mine is the 10 ton porta power hand pump - you can buy it on it's own, or as part of the kit that comes with a bunch of small rams for pushing out dents and stuff - best to get it on sale (of course)

RoamingGnome wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:25 pm

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:11 pm

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:07 pm @RoamingGnome @Eugen
Yes I do , A 4 ton and a big one I haven tried yet .

so testing a hose you plug it and then get the pressure high?

Be aware of all the safety precautions for working around pressurized hydraulic systems - you don't want to get a high pressure squirt of oil in your body - That being said... Yes, If you wanted to test how well the re-usable ends sealed - put a plug in one end of the hose and connect the other end to the pump (You can test resealed hyd. cylinders too... ) - gradually raise the pressure in the hose (or cylinder) to aprox. system working pressure and close the valve. come back in 10-15 mins and check to see if there is any pressure drop. Just be aware of the psi rating of the hose and fittings - you are checking for a leak - not trying to make a balloon out of the hose. - Once you have made a couple of hoses with re-usable ends you'll see it's pretty straightforward and probably won't feel the need to double check hoses - Mine is the 10 ton porta power hand pump - you can buy it on it's own, or as part of the kit that comes with a bunch of small rams for pushing out dents and stuff - best to get it on sale (of course)

Yes , safety . We used an old large tire to coil a hose in for high pressure testing when I work in the hydraulics shop back in the day . Then put a lid on it . Using a manual pump the squirt is short lived . No mater what is being tested Air must be removed first . One for building pressure and two for reducing stored pressure if it fails . Best way I have found to bench test cylinders is to put in extra long pins in each end then double rap heavy chain on both sides giving only a couple of inches of travel . Loader up to about 3000 psi , nothing I get into is releafed over that .

Thanks Dave - I didn't want to get too long winded about Safety, Safety, Safety... And definitely don't want anyone on here to have a preventable accident.

I saw a listing on FB marketplace today for a Sears Garden Tractor with (homemade?) front end loader... all the hard lines are black iron piping... It's great to be creative and make something from scratch, just make the effort to know risks involved with your material choices...

RoamingGnome wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:49 pm Thanks Dave - I didn't want to get too long winded about Safety, Safety, Safety... And definitely don't want anyone on here to have a preventable accident.

I saw a listing on FB marketplace today for a Sears Garden Tractor with (homemade?) front end loader... all the hard lines are black iron piping... It's great to be creative and make something from scratch, just make the effort to know risks involved with your material choices...

A lot of the old GT loaders made by Quikway and Johnson had iron pipe and fittings from factory but I beleave it was steel pipe . Used before seamless tubing .

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:02 pm
A lot of the old GT loaders made by Quikway and Johnson had iron pipe and fittings from factory but I beleave it was steel pipe . Used before seamless tubing .

Thanks! Today's mission of learning at least one new thing has been accomplished! Still lots for me to learn about old GT loaders

RoamingGnome wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:49 pm Thanks Dave - I didn't want to get too long winded about Safety, Safety, Safety... And definitely don't want anyone on here to have a preventable accident.

I saw a listing on FB marketplace today for a Sears Garden Tractor with (homemade?) front end loader... all the hard lines are black iron piping... It's great to be creative and make something from scratch, just make the effort to know risks involved with your material choices...

I used 1/2" schedule 40 steel pipe for my loader build. 5000psi rating is good enough for me. Of couse on the high pressure side I also used high spec carbon steel fittings, rated for 4000 psi. On the return side I just used standard cast iron npt fittings. 300psi is plenty strong enough for the return lines.

Bob

thebuildist wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:02 pm I used 1/2" schedule 40 steel pipe for my loader build. 5000psi rating is good enough for me. Of couse on the high pressure side I also used high spec carbon steel fittings, rated for 4000 psi. On the return side I just used standard cast iron npt fittings. 300psi is plenty strong enough for the return lines.

Bob

Elbow fittings for turns or you bent them with your strong thumb?

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:05 pm

thebuildist wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:02 pm I used 1/2" schedule 40 steel pipe for my loader build. 5000psi rating is good enough for me. Of couse on the high pressure side I also used high spec carbon steel fittings, rated for 4000 psi. On the return side I just used standard cast iron npt fittings. 300psi is plenty strong enough for the return lines.

Bob

Elbow fittings for turns or you bent them with your strong thumb?

It wasn't easy but the swing cylinder is out. What I find surprising about this backhoe is that the exterior shape of all parts is extremely bad, lots of pretty deep rust. Yet the clearest and cleanest red hydraulic oil came out of the hoses and cylinders. No sludge in the swing cylinder either. This is a bit of silver lining and gives me some hope that the pump is still ok.

The side with the internal valve didn't want to come off easy. Had to pry it open using the loader.


Again, totally clean inside.


Now that the wiper and seal are out, they need to be measured and sizes figured out on the hercules site.


Although I wonder if there are any parts inside the valve that need to be refreshed.

Eugen wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:12 pm It wasn't easy but the swing cylinder is out. What I find surprising about this backhoe is that the exterior shape of all parts is extremely bad, lots of pretty deep rust. Yet the clearest and cleanest red hydraulic oil came out of the hoses and cylinders. No sludge in the swing cylinder either. This is a bit of silver lining and gives me some hope that the pump is still ok.


EECBBA3B-753B-489F-84C0-016F3F2F303B.jpeg

That is kind of curious. Makes me wonder how long it’s been sitting?

@Eugen I have a faint memory of pulling the valves out of the swing cylinder but can not find pictures to confirm their function or components.

Eugen wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:12 pm It wasn't easy but the swing cylinder is out. What I find surprising about this backhoe is that the exterior shape of all parts is extremely bad, lots of pretty deep rust. Yet the clearest and cleanest red hydraulic oil came out of the hoses and cylinders. No sludge in the swing cylinder either. This is a bit of silver lining and gives me some hope that the pump is still ok.


EECBBA3B-753B-489F-84C0-016F3F2F303B.jpeg

It looks like you're really doing a great job with this!

It's a bit down the road for me yet, but I'll have to decide how aggressively to pursue overhauling my hoe. I can see that it needs new hoses. But if it looks fairly clean inside the hose ports, I'm tempted to just put new hoses on it, try to cycle it all through its paces using either compressed air or disposable oil, and just see how it runs.

But time will tell.

Bob

@thebuildist I don’t see why you couldn’t cycle it. I think oil would be better than air for the seals.
In my case I put the hoe to work after sitting for a decade and it functions fine, but as time goes on I’m getting more leaks and seepage around the old seals.
Just my opinions and thoughts for whatever they’re worth!

Spike188 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 6:19 pm @Eugen I have a faint memory of pulling the valves out of the swing cylinder but can not find pictures to confirm their function or components.

I don't seem to have the right tool to take those valves off, looks like a big flat screwdriver with a missing "wide tooth" in the middle. There is an o-ring in each, but I'm tempted to leave it as is for now.

@thebuildist , I'm with Jeff on this one, I don't think compressed air would tell you anything. From what I've seen so far on the big backhoe and the loader, they all had and still have some really really old hoses, some of them even with heavily cracked outer shell and exposed steel mesh. Yet they don't leak. Seals and o-rings on the other hand, that's where it's more likely to have leaks. If I were you I'd just hook it up and take it through its paces. I personally use the cheapest 15w40 diesel oil for the hydraulics, so if it got dirty I'd just flush it and put new one. But if you think the backhoe has contaminated oil it's quite some work to get it out, because I think you would need to do it cylinder by cylinder.

In my case, seeing the rough shape of the exterior I thought it must be awful on the inside and decided to do a complete overhaul. Now, after seeing the old seals, I think it might have been just fine for a while. But I'm not sorry doing it, it'll be more reliable once finished.

My method of D100 testing with the original oil included installing a 5 micron oil filter in the two return lines between the hoe and the tractor. The quantity of filth found in the D100 during rebuild, scared me. The 646 had a brand new pump and rebuilt hydraulic system on it. Not wanting to risk damage to the tractors hydraulics, the tractor oil and filter was changed after testing. In part because of diluting the tractor oil with oil of unknown age. Filtering can not rejuvenate old oil that has been burnt.

Over the years, doing industrial equipment repair, there have been many instances of spool valve failure on machines due to lack of oil changes. It is good practice to change oil and filters within several hours after breaking in any newly rebuilt machine.

One customer had me reuse his old oil after a rebuild on a mechanical geared shear. A week later, the internal linkage bound because of the filth. It blew a peice of the clutch casting off and knocked the side out of the gearbox. That mistake cost him over $20,000.00 to repair.

thebuildist wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:53 pm

Eugen wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:12 pm It wasn't easy but the swing cylinder is out. What I find surprising about this backhoe is that the exterior shape of all parts is extremely bad, lots of pretty deep rust. Yet the clearest and cleanest red hydraulic oil came out of the hoses and cylinders. No sludge in the swing cylinder either. This is a bit of silver lining and gives me some hope that the pump is still ok.


EECBBA3B-753B-489F-84C0-016F3F2F303B.jpeg

It looks like you're really doing a great job with this!

It's a bit down the road for me yet, but I'll have to decide how aggressively to pursue overhauling my hoe. I can see that it needs new hoses. But if it looks fairly clean inside the hose ports, I'm tempted to just put new hoses on it, try to cycle it all through its paces using either compressed air or disposable oil, and just see how it runs.

But time will tell.

Bob

Definitely go the disposable oil route. If something binds a bit with air the pressure will rise, and when the bind lets go things could move very rapidly and possibly catastrophically with the stored energy of the compressed air


Gordy

Gordy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:35 am

thebuildist wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:53 pm

Eugen wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:12 pm It wasn't easy but the swing cylinder is out. What I find surprising about this backhoe is that the exterior shape of all parts is extremely bad, lots of pretty deep rust. Yet the clearest and cleanest red hydraulic oil came out of the hoses and cylinders. No sludge in the swing cylinder either. This is a bit of silver lining and gives me some hope that the pump is still ok.


EECBBA3B-753B-489F-84C0-016F3F2F303B.jpeg

It looks like you're really doing a great job with this!

It's a bit down the road for me yet, but I'll have to decide how aggressively to pursue overhauling my hoe. I can see that it needs new hoses. But if it looks fairly clean inside the hose ports, I'm tempted to just put new hoses on it, try to cycle it all through its paces using either compressed air or disposable oil, and just see how it runs.

But time will tell.

Bob

Definitely go the disposable oil route. If something binds a bit with air the pressure will rise, and when the bind lets go things could move very rapidly and possibly catastrophically with the stored energy of the compressed air


Gordy

That's a good point. I'll definitely go the oil route.

Bob

Finished all the measurements and scouting of seals and o-rings on hercules, so the parts were ordered. The cost to refresh the boom, dipper, bucket cylinders which are identical, and the swing cylinder was about $80 CAD. Shipping was $30 CAD. Oh well. You notice the stabilizer cylinders are missing here. I'm stuck, not able to take them out until the backhoe frame is separated from the trencher body.

Those of you who have the Cessna cylinders you might find the list of parts useful.


Edit: ugh, sometimes the finger's too quick on the trigger. I'll call and cancel the order because there might be a way to get the stabilizer cylinders out without backhoe frame removal. Should at least give it a good try.

If this is what it takes, so be it

Not just everybody takes the time to buy a jack that perfectly matches their equipment.

Call me impressed.

Bob

thebuildist wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:33 pm Not just everybody takes the time to buy a jack that perfectly matches their equipment.

Call me impressed.

Bob

Finally somebody gets me!

Sadly, the color matched jack did not help much. Those cylinders are still not out.

@Eugen The down rigger cylinders are removed through the top of the backhoe frame post. There are 2 pins at the bottom of each down rigger. The lower of the 2 pins holds the rigger pad in place and must be removed and a pin at the top of the post which attaches the cylinder top.This should let the extension tube slide out through the top of the frame, that is unless the top of the frame post are bent inward. Removal of the 2 hydraulic lines may also be an issue. Getting a wrench on the 2 lines is a tight fit.

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:57 pm

thebuildist wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:33 pm Not just everybody takes the time to buy a jack that perfectly matches their equipment.

Call me impressed.

Bob

Finally somebody gets me!

Sadly, the color matched jack did not help much. Those cylinders are still not out.

Spike188 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:05 am First paint 1rs.jpg
@Eugen The down rigger cylinders are removed through the top of the backhoe frame post. D100 down riggers.jpg
There are 2 pins at the bottom of each down rigger. The lower of the 2 pins holds the rigger pad in place and must be removed and a pin at the top of the post which attaches the cylinder top.IMG_20210621_180649384.jpgThis should let the extension tube slide out through the top of the frame, that is unless the top of the frame post are bent inward. Removal of the 2 hydraulic lines may also be an issue. Getting a wrench on the 2 lines is a tight fit.

@Spike188 that looks great!

That represents a lot of work to tear it down and clean it that completely. And the paint job looks well executed as well.

Bob

thebuildist wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:33 pm Not just everybody takes the time to buy a jack that perfectly matches their equipment.

Call me impressed.

Bob

@thebuildist I think it's the attention to little details like colour matching the accessories that makes projects by @Eugen so special...

@Spike188 and @Eugen... Just wondering - If removing the whole assembly on the back of the trencher was an issue - could the downrigger be dropped out of the bottom of the frame? If you dug a small pit so the cylinder and sleeve would go down far enough to clear the frame work then you could work on the pin for the pad on the bench rather than at ground level?

He he

@Spike188 thank you! Right now access to the lower pins under the post is my issue. Cannot lift the posts because the frame is still connected to the trencher. One link I cut the pin last night with the sawzall. Very tight and poor access. Fortunately one I could cut because they used a bolt.


The other side is a hardened pin, the blade doesn't cut. Already tried heat, hammering, doesn't budge. Maybe I try the angle grinder tomorrow, I'm gone to the city today.

@RoamingGnome Gerry, if I don't succeed with the grinder I might dig the hole. It's muddy, if I can avoid it I will

If only you had a backhoe.

Toolslinger wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 4:38 pm If only you had a backhoe.

He he! Truer words have not been spoken


Any who, a separation agreement was signed and all parties are satisfied

One of the stabilizer cylinders was easy to unpin so after the children went to sleep I took it apart using a 24" pipe wrench for the gland. It's a strange cylinder, I'll show pics on assembly. Many seals on this one. But they're out and ready for measurements.

@Eugen Good to see you made progress and can now order all cylinder seals . Are you going to tackle the valve body as well?

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:47 am @Eugen Good to see you made progress and can now order all cylinder seals . Are you going to tackle the valve body as well?

Not sure. Should I? What would you guys do?

Personally, I've grown more and more shy of opening up things that I don't know what's inside.

I'd leave it alone.

Bob

Because of the sludge found in while doing my D100 a complete rebuild of the control stand was in order. During the rebuild one broken centering spring was found and replaced via local sources. There was a missing detent spacer on another spool that allowed the lever to over travel. The spacer was easy to duplicate in the drill mill. Rebuilding did not take long and gave me peace of mind. Keep in mind that here are about 50 O-rings and around 8 different sizes in the control stack.

@Spike188 The oil that came out of the valve, which, by the way, was quite a lot, was very clean. All the spools on this one move in both directions easily and the spring brings the spool back to center. I cannot feel on any of the spools a float of any kind. Is there?

I'm very tempted to open it up and replace all the o-rings, just to know it's been done. On the other hand, it seems fine, and the only risk I see not doing it now is the $30 shipping I'll pay if I do it later if necessary. Really on the fence on this, as you can see.

@Eugen you unit appears to be weather degradation where mine was abuse. I would inspect the exposed areas of the spools. If they show little or no signs of rust I would be inclined to leave them alone. But now that the piping is easy to remove, it is prime time for service.

Spike188 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 9:37 am @Eugen you unit appears to be weather degradation where mine was abuse. I would inspect the exposed areas of the spools. If they show little or no signs of rust I would be inclined to leave them alone. But now that the piping is easy to remove, it is prime time for service.

I agree with Eugene .

Very little rust if any, on the exposed part of the pools.

Here's the list of o-rings and seals ordered, and prices in CAD from hercules, to give you an idea. To my best ability, the list is complete and enough to refresh the following cylinders: boom, dipper, bucket, swing, and stabilizers. I chose all o-rings buna-n durometer 70 (series 568 on hercules). All the back-up rings buna-n durometer 90a (series 574). For wiper rings I chose MCN (metal clad rubber), which is what I think was installed originally.


Once the parts arrive I will install them and at some point will test.

Thanks for posting that, @Eugen

What a helpful resource for others with backhoes that may need servicing.

And I still cannot actually believe that may include me soon!

Bob

The bottom of one of the stabilizers must've stayed dipped in mud for a long time. All parts were welded together by rust. The pin did not budge with heat and banging. Fortunately there was enough clearance to cut it off with the sawzall. The rod has deep rust on a length of about 3" from the tip. Might need to replace the rod.


Both rods have rust damage on the ends. Looks like one had been repaired, is longer and a lot more rusted than the other. Would be nice to replace them. @Spike188 and @FUTZ do you have any suggestions where I could find replacements?

New ones can made from chrome shaft . I know Western Hydraulics does it in our area . There maybe others shops as well . Call around , you maybe able to get it done cheaper in the big city .

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 11:06 am New ones can made from chrome shaft . I know Western Hydraulics does it in our area . There maybe others shops as well . Call around , you maybe able to get it done cheaper in the big city .

Thanks Dave!!

The parts from hercules, ordered yesterday, arrived! Yay!

It may be easier and less expensive to replace the whole cylinder. Not necessarily, but maybe. I'd measure the cylinder size and stroke and look them up on Ebay and SurplusCenter. The affordable cylinders are kind of hit and miss for available sizes, but you may get lucky.

Bob

thebuildist wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 2:18 pm It may be easier and less expensive to replace the whole cylinder. Not necessarily, but maybe. I'd measure the cylinder size and stroke and look them up on Ebay and SurplusCenter. The affordable cylinders are kind of hit and miss for available sizes, but you may get lucky.

Bob

Bob, I think I know why this cylinder is strange. It has an interior sleeve. Because it's inside the moving square tube of the stabilizer I think it cannot have a hose or pipe alongside, both ports are at the top. I think it'll be hard to find an odd cylinder like that.

I'm considering even getting a cylinder just to harvest the 1" rod.

Yeah you've got a point. Depending on the hydraulic shop, you might be able to buy a 20 or 24-in stroke inexpensive cylinder for less than the shop wants to charge you just for the raw rod.

And turning it on the lathe isn't that hard to do. You'll want to use copper chuck jaw pads to prevent scratching. But other than that it's just turning a shoulder and threading the end.

Bob

Finally got the last engine mount off and pulled the engine out.


Then I found out a possible explanation for the seized engine state. The bottom of the oil pan has an inopportune opening. Cooling technology from the future, drop the bottom of the oil pan, expulse the old oil, done.

@Eugen Just patch the hole with JB weld .

Well that’s an unexpected development! When you brought it home I was sure hoping you would have good luck with the engine.

JSinMO wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2023 12:54 am Well that’s an unexpected development! When you brought it home I was sure hoping you would have good luck with the engine.

It's alright, I didn't have much hope. Watch me part it out on eBay and get enough $$ for new hoses or some tools.

Been waiting for good weather to run the pressure washer for a while.

Target acquired. Target locked on. Target washed.


Wouldn't it be nice to make it a tank for the kids?

The Onan J60 engine was a serious machine, pressured oil, 1-3/4" shaft pity it's ruined.

I thinks there’s a lot potential there to make something cool.
Tank
Bull dozer
Big snow thrower
????
I’m looking forward to what you come up with!

One of the reasons for the wash was to inspect the drive, axles, and all hydraulic lines. They all seem weathered but may be functional. If I were to guess, judging by the state of the clean oil, seals and overall interior state of the cylinders, I'd say the device was working hydraulically fine when the engine blew. Then it sat for years.

Interesting fact about this device is that the hydraulic tank is actually integral part of the frame. The hydraulic pump is dual, and has an 11/16 shaft, unfortunately not matching the lovejoy coupler I already have which is 3/4. The local store does not carry an 11/16 coupler. I was tempted to just install the 15hp engine I have for testing and see if it's enough to crawl. This engine is new, has 1" shaft, and flex coupling to a 3/4" shaft pump.

I'd say to couple it up to one of your hydraulic pto's to test it out but I think you said it had red oil in the trencher and you would contaminate your tractors oil.

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 9:42 am One of the reasons for the wash was to inspect the drive, axles, and all hydraulic lines. They all seem weathered but may be functional. If I were to guess, judging by the state of the clean oil, seals and overall interior state of the cylinders, I'd say the device was working hydraulically fine when the engine blew. Then it sat for years.

Interesting fact about this device is that the hydraulic tank is actually integral part of the frame. The hydraulic pump is dual, and has an 11/16 shaft, unfortunately not matching the lovejoy coupler I already have which is 3/4. The local store does not carry an 11/16 coupler. I was tempted to just install the 15hp engine I have for testing and see if it's enough to crawl. This engine is new, has 1" shaft, and flex coupling to a 3/4" shaft pump.

Get a 5/8" coupler and bore it out . I have a broaching kit to deal with the key way .

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:08 pm Get a 5/8" coupler and bore it out . I have a broaching kit to deal with the key way .

That's exactly what I was thinking about this morning and was going to ask you if you have broaching tools. Of course you have thanks Dave!

Job needed me in the city yesterday so I stopped by Princess Auto with plans. Well, plans did not go as planned. The PA website showed no L-099 5/8 flex coupler in stock, but it showed two 1/2 units. I figured it's fine, as long as it's smaller than the 11/16 pump shaft, I'll just make the hole to size and fit the pump shaft. When I get there, none in stock. Lots of 3/4 and larger in stock though. I asked the folks there and they said, sorry, someone must've walked out with them in the pocket and we didn't know to update the stock on the website. They have it for online order though, if I pay the $20 shipping, which I'd like to avoid. Wish I had thought about that when I ordered something else and I did pay the shipping, last week. Double

OK, fine. Now I'm thinking how bad and idea is it to come up with a bushing to fill the empty space between the 3/4 flex coupler I have and the 11/16 shaft.

While I was there I got the 2x 10' and 2x 8' of 3/8 hydraulic hose to use with the field replaceable fittings. Also had them make two short 1/4 hoses for the stabilizer cylinder on one side. Altogether nearly $200.

It turns out that getting the small backhoe operational just became really important. The township changed rules recently and suddenly we are required to come up with a lot grading plan. When the architect made the plans for the addition a year ago they inquired with the township and no lot grading plan was needed; and it's not something I can do myself either. Was quoted about 4600 for that, which hurts. But part of that is digging a 6ft deep 2ft wide hole to establish the water level. I'm not feeling very motivated to dig it manually, if only I had a backhoe.

And so the story goes..

P.S. Decide to hasten putting the 644 and 446 for sale. sniff sniff

I'm feeling for you @EugenThe Princess in Hamilton often shows 1 or 2 items in stock and the shelf is bare when I get there - it is frustrating.... and about dealing with the township... Last summer we got our permit for the septic system up at the property... Seems when we were doing all the paperwork for the building permits nobody mentioned they needed a septic permit before they would approve and release the building permits... So at the last minute I had to dig 3 test pits so the inspector could see soil conditions and check the percolation rate - I thought great, I've got my Case 530CK backhoe there, It hasn't done anything since we had it trucked up north the previous winter... finally went to use it and found all the backhoe levers had rusted solid on their common pivot shaft - ended up renting a mini excavator from a neighbour to do the test pits. This year responsibility for septic system inspections has changed from the health dept to the building department... Can't wait to speak to the township offices and find out how much of the work we are going to have to repeat...

Gerry, hopefully you don't have to repeat any work. Bureaucracy may be different in different townships, but the result is the same.

I might need to rent a mini-excavator from Home Depot. Figures eh? Two backhoes in the yard and I'm going to rent one. kinda laughable too, if I only had a little more sense of humour.

@Eugen you could always rent one of the little Kubota backhoes from Home Depot... - they have a dig depth of 6'2" - do a little comparison post on what it's like to work with a "new" diesel subcompact LBH

@Eugen I have a L-099 set you can have . one half is 9/16" and the other is 1 1/8" bore . both have a little ware from spider failure but still usable for testing .

@Eugen https://www.fastenal.ca/productDetails/ ... lue_0=LO99

@DavidBarkey Fastenal does not sell to me. it's ok, I'll figure something out. I don't want to bore the 9/16 one you have, but thank you for the offer! I appreciate it.

@Eugen @RoamingGnome I feel frustrated for you guys having to deal with red tape! I know it’s for a good reason but man it’s aggravating. I’m lucky to live in an unincorporated area with very few restrictions, but it can have its downside too. Someone could build something dangerous or unsanitary without much recourse.

I don’t know what your timeframe is Eugen, but I’m hoping you can have a backhoe up and running so you don’t have to rent one.

Yeah Jeff, like you say, the rules are there for a reason. I never heard of an unicorporated area, have no idea what even that means. I doubt there is something like that here in Canada.

Here's a summary of the situation with the backhoe.

The backhoe steel frame is all apart, would be nice to paint it, but now I'm rushing to get it functional.

The boom, dipper, and bucket cylinders are still disassembled, need cleaning, and then assembly with new seals all throughout. Wish I had the weather and time to paint them now they are disassembled.

The stabilizer cylinders are apart, have the seals, but the rods need to be replaced. I'm trying to get chrome plated rod to make the rods.

Got hydraulic hose for the boom, dipper, bucket; these need to be assembled with the field replaceable fitting; got hoses done for one of the stabilizer cylinders. Next time I go to the city I'll get done the short hoses for the other stabilizer cylinder.

The valve needs to be washed, cleaned on the outside. Wish I could paint it too.

The big question is what device to attach it to. My 644s don't have the under-frame bracket, nor the webbed rear axles.

Will try installing a 15HP engine in the trencher and see if the drive train mechanism, which is all hydraulic, is broken or works. To do that I need to connect the engine to the existing hydraulic pump, which has an 11/16" shaft. Unfortunately I could not find an L-099 flex coupler (lovejoy) of this size. The one I have on hand is for a 3/4" diameter shaft. Last night I turned a bushing on the lathe, to fill in the space between the 11/16 shaft and the 3/4 lovejoy.

Being the cave man that I am I also spot welded it on the lovejoy.


This should be good enough to test the trencher, me thinks. And we will find out if I am wrong, when the time comes. Have to see how the new engine fits in there too.

I always tell my wife the things I get have stuffed in the shed and tents are pieces of a puzzle. This puzzle is not always well defined, but it becomes aparent as time goes by.

A while ago I got a parts 446 which came with a new 15HP Chinese engine and hydraulic pump, flex coupling, and bracket. This is the engine I want to treat in the trencher. Turns out that the coupling needed a little massaging, but the pump bracket was a direct fit.


Didn't have any duck tape to fixate the engine to the frame, nor zip ties. So it just sits on the frame for this test.


Will it run?

Better question is, will it stop?!


https://vimeo.com/819620928






try and ignore the crazy guy yelling in the background, strange people in our village here.

@Eugen Woot, you just can't stop playing!

IT'S ALIVE

How does the tracks and drive seem?
This may be your quickest way to an operational hoe for now.

That’s awesome! I got excited as soon as I saw your updates! It’s alive!

Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:17 am Yeah Jeff, like you say, the rules are there for a reason. I never heard of an unicorporated area, have no idea what even that means. I doubt there is something like that here in Canada.
.

I thought I’d explain what I meant. Our property is not in any city, town, village, etc. We are governed by the county only. There is no planning or zoning department, no permits, no inspections, and no code book. If I want to build something on my land I just do it, I don’t need permission or approval from anybody. As far as I know the only regulations that have to be followed are for a septic system, and those are just guidelines from the county health department.

Areas like mine are called unincorporated, at least in Missouri. Can’t speak for other areas.

Right on Tim! Tested it again, moves forward, left, right, stop. Blade goes up and down. A small oil leak on one of the hoses for the trencher up-down cylinder.

Now that I know it works, the backhoe goes on it indeed.

@Eugen
That is awesome bud .

The gland threads were messed up pretty badly from rust, age, and my efforts to push the gland in far enough to get the lock ring out. Tried one of those external thread repair files but it didn't repair the threads enough for the nut to screw in. Figured it was 16 tpi so I set the lathe for thread cutting 16 tpi and cleaned up the threads on all three glands. This new tool with inserts did well.

One of the nuts has metal lodged in its threads, must've been pieces of the gland threads. Too big for the lathe chuck so I just gouged those pieces of metal out of the threads using an internal thread cutting tool, just with my hands. That also worked well.

How cool is that? Congrats, that's awesome!

Bob

That's awesome @Eugen What a cool piece of machinery you are going to have when it's all done
I'm always impressed with you guys that have your own metal lathes, what a handy tool to have when you are fixing old stuff...

God sometimes sends you a curved ball. Other times curved cylinder rods. But with that also a 12 tonnes hydraulic bottle jack. ...

Can't tell from the pic. . Did it work ?

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 1:46 pm Can't tell from the pic. . Did it work ?

Working on it. Has quite a lots of spring. Have to go at it again and again. Definitely got better. One of them had about 3/16" gap between a straight edge and it's middle. Now less than 1/64. Any words of advice? It's the first time I'm doing this.

I have straightened rods in the feild. While applying pressure to the rod, place a block of wood near the pressure point and strike the wood with a sledge. The shock relaxes stress in the rod and stops spring back.
The trick is not hitting it to hard and causing over bending.

Thank you @Spike188 , that was good advice!

With the rods straight it's time for assembly. Something I haven't mentioned yet is that the gland needs to enter the cylinder easily, and go in about an inch below the top, so the locking ring can be installed. For this I cleaned the inner cylinder sleeve of rust and dents with an abrasive tip in the cordless drill (after inserting a cloth plug in to keep the debris at the entrance for easy cleanup).

One cylinder assembled. Oh, it's important not to forget to put the gland nut on when the gland goes on the rod. It cannot go on the rod after assembly! Don't ask how I know.

This is another milestone for me, a symbolic one.

Oh Eugen, how may hands would I need to count the times of 1 step forward, 2 steps backward, 2.5 steps forward.

Spike188 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 5:49 pm Oh Eugen, how may hands would I need to count the times of 1 step forward, 2 steps backward, 2.5 steps forward.

Like you read my mind. When I assembled the first cylinder, things just didn't seem right, only to realize the rod was bent pretty badly. How I didn't think to check the rods is beyond me. How I handled the rods and didn't notice the curved rod is double beyond me. Last night I needed a moment to regroup.

I got a lead on chrome rod stock in Toronto. I'm considering re-chroming the two backhoe rods that have a little pitting here and there, if it's not too expensive.

That’s an impressive repair @Eugen. I would have been pretty nervous trying to straighten that rod!

Eugen wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 1:48 pm

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 1:46 pm Can't tell from the pic. . Did it work ?

Working on it. Has quite a lots of spring. Have to go at it again and again. Definitely got better. One of them had about 3/16" gap between a straight edge and it's middle. Now less than 1/64. Any words of advice? It's the first time I'm doing this.

Just the way you are doing it .A little at a time . Biggest thing is to protect the shaft from marks in the travel zone . Worst thing you can do is mark the shaft or go way to far . I always mark the top of the bow with a marker the length in case it rates when straightening . Just easier to keep track of .

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 6:48 am Just the way you are doing it .A little at a time . Biggest thing is to protect the shaft from marks in the travel zone . Worst thing you can do is mark the shaft or go way to far . I always mark the top of the bow with a marker the length in case it rates when straightening . Just easier to keep track of .

Thanks Dave! I saw other people doing it with chains but I thought straps would be better, no marks. Also used a thick strap piece under the bottle jack. I figured how much to push at a time by feel, how hard it got to push the handle of the jack. Had to move the jack and straps a few times to chase the part of biggest bow. The bottle jack is sitting on the two forklift forks set on a side, providing a rigid base. No way the 4x1-1/4 would bend. Worked surprisingly well.

Continued last night with cleaning and packing all the glands, pistons, then put them in new zip lock bags wait for assembly.


Cleaned and packed the swing cylinder


Then assembled it. Not sure if I should attempt to re-shape the big gear teeth which are somewhat distorted/narrowed at the bottom.

@Eugen Awesome work on straightening the rods... I've repacked lots of cylinders but never tried to unbend a rod.

Inspired by people on here on a daily basis!

I got a rod here you can straighten out for me too. Lol

Could you flip that cylinder or rod over so the teeth have a new contact area to wear on?

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Eugen, my one hoe had a cylinder with a bend in the rod. I used my hydraulic press to bump it and straightened it. I did insert a piece of wood between the rod and the press cylinder to protect the chrome. Harry

Jancoe wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:22 am I got a rod here you can straighten out for me too. Lol

Could you flip that cylinder or rod over so the teeth have a new contact area to wear on?

I don't know if it can be flipped and still work. Maybe I'll try.


Today I got 1" diameter chrome plated rod to replace the bad ones in the stabilizer cylinders. Had the two 1.5" rods from the backhoe with me to ask about re-chroming them, as they have some speckles of rust. The shop said it would be quite expensive and the better option is to replace the rod. So off I went with another 50" of 1.5" chrome rod. Turns out that neither Mr @DavidBarkey 's lathe nor mine can accommodate a 23" long bar.

I wonder now if will like the new heavy duty shower curtain rod.

You could try calling https://www.nahardchrome.com/ for a quote... they are in Oakville and pretty sure they were the shop used by Liebherr and Toromont Cat when getting big parts re-chromed....

Thank you Gerry, I bought new rod already, but this is good to know for the future.

The look on the teeth indicate that the cylinder and swing gear wear not lined up. The swing gear will fit on the swing post flipped over. Once the gear is flipped, shim between the frame and cylinders to achieve near zero backlash.

My lathe is too small. Going to a local machine shop tomorrow. The hydraulic shop in Toronto wanted 170 per rod end, to shrink diameter and cut a thread. With all due respect for their skill and time, it is not affordable for me.

Continuing my "blog", this may not be useful to any of you guys, but it helps me keep track of some things and time line.

Took the rods to a local machinist this morning, who gave me a decent price, he will do the piston end of each rod on a CNC machine.

Have been looking for any sort of manual for this Case Davis Taskforce 500 trencher. Could not find anything to download or buy. Joined a FB group for these machines and asked some questions there. For instance I was curious what oils one uses for hydraulics, and transaxle. I'm thinking I'll use the same oil as in the 644, that is, engine oil for both hydraulics and the transaxle. Checked the transaxle and could find no draining bolt. The bolt at the rear is about 2.5 inches above the bottom, so I'm thinking that's the fill up hole. Looked inside and there was a darker oil on the bottom, almost the consistency of honey. Filled it up with some oil cut with diesel for cleaning, and will suck it out in a few days.

When I first tested this machine, took it from one side of the yard closer to the tent which is the makeshift shop for now, so it's easier to work on it. On that test run I pushed and pulled on all levers and figured the way to move forward, and the stop either of the tracks for turning. Two things didn't happen: go in reverse or go faster. Last night I was decided to find out how to put it in reverse. There are two levers on the right side which seemed stuck together. Tried to make sense of the hydraulic lines and the two valves but it wasn't clear how to go in reverse. At some point I forced the two levers to separate and low and behold, it started to go in reverse. Just then I got a notification on FB some fellow answered me that the two levers need to be separated to go in reverse. Not only, but when the two levers are pointing in opposite directions the trencher goes faster. It shakes though, when it moves faster, and this makes me a bit nervous so I only let it go for a short time. I'd like to make sure the tracks get some maintenance before using it more, they're very rusty and I'm afraid they could break.

Today I fabricated a mounting plate for the new engine and bolted it to the frame. Took it around the yard, forward, backward, blade up, blade down, bulldozed some soil. This is the tracked device that I would have liked to have but never thought I'd get one. And it's a Case! Hope to not find any unpleasant or tragic surprises later, because the backhoe would be awesome on this one.

I was curious where you had posted your questions - - they popped up briefly on FB (It does that sometimes when someone you know makes a post on a group you aren't a member of yet) but I couldn't find them on any forums or FB Case/Ingersoll groups...

Thanks for the update, and looking forward to reading more about your trencher progress...

RoamingGnome wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:11 am I was curious where you had posted your questions - - they popped up briefly on FB (It does that sometimes when someone you know makes a post on a group you aren't a member of yet) but I couldn't find them on any forums or FB Case/Ingersoll groups...

Thanks for the update, and looking forward to reading more about your trencher progress...

Thanks Gerry! The group came up on a google search I did for manuals, it's called "Davis (Case) Taskforce 200/300 trencher" and it seems to be the only group for such devices, so people post pictures of all Case/Davis trenchers. It's not a big group, as you can imagine.

The rods are done. Very nice machining, I'd never have been able to get such good finish on them.

Seeking advice. How would you prepare and weld the eye on the end of the rod? Also, what process, stick or mig? If stick, dc and 7018?

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 11:07 am The rods are done. Very nice machining, I'd never have been able to get such good finish on them.


039AA02E-C69F-4885-ABA9-45D62BE61245.jpeg

Seeking advice. How would you prepare and weld the eye on the end of the rod? Also, what process, stick or mig? If stick, dc and 7018?

Stick , and protect the chrome with header rap and a pipe over it . I have some rap you can borrow . Grind the end to mirror the tube end to be welded on . Leave a small gap ,about a 1/16th on an inch. Tack in place at each end , you can use your mig for this . First pass at he bottom (root), clean slag and then flip over and then do first pass (root) on other side . The idea is to have the second root pass bite into the bottom of the first . Then start filling in the gap between rod and rod end . Do a pass on each side , clean slag and repeat until the weld is slightly larger than the rod .

As for what rod to use , I would use 7018 because that is what I know . Harry would be able to give better insights on this .

Thank you Dave!


Tried the dozer. What 15hp can do with the right transmission and good traction is quite amazing.


https://vimeo.com/822142463

. If that is with 15 hp imagine what would it do with full hp . How much is full hp ?

Not sure Dave, the original engine was an Onan J60, also called the Onan JB. Probably somewhere between 20 and 30 I'm thinking.

That’s really cool @Eugen !
I’m looking forward to seeing the backhoe on it digging away!

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 1:21 pm

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 11:07 am The rods are done. Very nice machining, I'd never have been able to get such good finish on them.


039AA02E-C69F-4885-ABA9-45D62BE61245.jpeg

Seeking advice. How would you prepare and weld the eye on the end of the rod? Also, what process, stick or mig? If stick, dc and 7018?

Stick , and protect the chrome with header rap and a pipe over it . I have some rap you can borrow . Grind the end to mirror the tube end to be welded on . Leave a small gap ,about a 1/16th on an inch. Tack in place at each end , you can use your mig for this . First pass at he bottom (root), clean slag and then flip over and then do first pass (root) on other side . The idea is to have the second root pass bite into the bottom of the first . Then start filling in the gap between rod and rod end . Do a pass on each side , clean slag and repeat until the weld is slightly larger than the rod .

As for what rod to use , I would use 7018 because that is what I know . Harry would be able to give better insights on this .

I agree with David’s suggestions. Harry

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 5:34 pm Not sure Dave, the original engine was an Onan J60, also called the Onan JB. Probably somewhere between 20 and 30 I'm thinking.

look on page 4-5
https://issuu.com/kmd9isb5nvmk/docs/cum ... ervice_rep
21.6 hp @ 2700 rpm
That 15 @ 3600 rpm is not to far off . If the pump you have on there is a little smaller cid than the original . You can use the extra rpm of that engine to compensate . Just might be a little slower over all , but should work just fine .

Only replaced the engine Dave, it's using the original pump. As far as I can tell it moves fine and as you could see it pushes strong. I did not set the engine to the highest RPM. It should be plenty for the backhoe as well.

Yesterday I cut the eyelets off the old rod. I'll take advantage of the opportunity and put bushing in each eyelet, as they have enough wear. It will be steel bushing as I don't have any source of bronze bushing of 1-1/8 ID.

Been thinking of a jig to weld the eyelets true on the rods. Maybe from some 2x4s to sandwich the rod. Normally the end of the rod would have been turned on the lathe a small diameter like 5/8 and a corresponding hole made on the eyelet so they could fit together true.

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/bushi ... -bearings/
See if Canadian Bearings in Barrie can get these

I'll have a look Dave, thanks! - price might be ok. I hope.

Today I tapered the end of the new rods on the grinder, getting them ready for welding.


The eyelets need to wait for bushings.

Question to you guys: saw this video on youtube, see minute 27:36

https://youtu.be/mGpYGZ2ZxB4?t=27m36s


where a guy was doing this kind of repair on a bigger rod. It was obviously a very professional shop, huge lathe and everything. He MIG welded the eyelet and heated the spot before welding it. Is it necessary to preheat?

No, the preheat in that case was only because the part is so large that it would function as a heat sink and give him a cold weld. I think the size of this part the weld action itself will deliver plenty of heat.

Bob

By the way, for doing real world work, that guy is my very favorite channel. I've watched everything he's ever done, and boy have I learned a lot from him.

My very favorite channel of all is Dave Richards old time steam powered machine shop. But that's just because it's so unique and interesting. But doesn't apply hardly at all to the real world.

Bob

What welding details do you plan to use on it? .040 mig with gas? 3/16 7018 on DCEP?

Bob

I watched the video and yes that is a large diameter rod the guy is welding. Preheat is never a bad idea you just do not need to go overboard with the heat. 400 to 600 degrees is plenty. Figure heating up a piece of metal quickly with an arc is quite a shock to it. The welder used flux cored wire in the video, I could see the flux fall off when grinding it. I couldn’t see his welding machine so I’m not sure if he used shielding gas. Flux core or FCAW is similar to E-7018 which is a low hydrogen weld. More penetration than short circuiting MIG. Harry

thebuildist wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 8:18 pm What welding details do you plan to use on it? .040 mig with gas? 3/16 7018 on DCEP?

Bob

Thank you Bob! I was going to heed Dave's advice and use 7018 DCEP. Somehow I feel more confident doing that than MIG.

@Harry , the guy said he uses Hobart XL-525 Gas-Shielded Flux-Cored Wire.

I'd go the 7018 route too. If you do the same gas-shielded MIG route that Curtis does, ("Curtis with Cutting Edge Engineering") then it seems like it really lays in a lot of material very quickly. So it would save some time, I'm sure. But since I have no experience with it, and since I'd have to go buy both the correct wire and the correct gas, it would be a lot more expensive than just picking up some 7018 rods. And those lay in a pretty nice bead too.

Bob

@Eugen If it is a damp at all . Warm the metal up to pull the damp from the joint just before you start welding . A propane plumbers torch will be enough .

Small steps. The rain over a few days has that effect on me, slowing me down. Not having a shop makes a lot of work dependent on the weather, in particular rain is the worse. Enough complaining.

Today there was a break in the rain. Replaced the transaxle diesel and old oil which I put a few days ago with fresh oil. Topped up the hydraulic oil which was low after a leak on a hose which was subsequently fixed. Replaced the hydraulic oil filter.

Made the jig like this

as square as I could and spot welded the eyelet on one rod. Worked surprisingly well.

Then cleaned up the outer and inner surfaces of the other eyelet on the lathe, and prepared the outer surface of the bushing.


Didn't do the inner surface of the bushing so as to keeo it as thick as possible for the press fit, which, those of us who do not own a press also call the banging fit.

Went in nice and hard.




Will do the inner diameter to fit nicely the 1-1/8 pin.


Then weld.

@Eugen You may need to ream / hone to size a bit after welding . The weld may pull the bore closed slightly . Don't feel bad , I have a heated shop and yet the rain has played havoc with me of late.

Thanks for the tip Dave. I will fream it if needed. Fream is when you don't have a 1-1/8 big reamer and instead use a round file!

Another option for cleaning up the bore would be a die grinder with a small flap wheel or a carbide burr in it... spent many hours cleaning out bores on excavator buckets when the pins didn't quite fit right...

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 8:28 am Thanks for the tip Dave. I will fream it if needed. Fream is when you don't have a 1-1/8 big reamer and instead use a round file!

Just wanted to make sure the pin will still fit before reassembly while it is easy to work on it . Learned that one the hard way .

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 9:28 am

Eugen wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 8:28 am Thanks for the tip Dave. I will fream it if needed. Fream is when you don't have a 1-1/8 big reamer and instead use a round file!

Just wanted to make sure the pin will still fit before reassembly while it is easy to work on it . Learned that one the hard way .

So true @DavidBarkey - that's a lesson many a heavy equipment mechanic has learned the hard way, Always test fit the pin in the bore when the parts are in the shop or on the ground at the job site...

It may not always show, but let me tell you again now guys, your advice is really really appreciate it and I heed it.

Floppy wheels made of sandpaper strips of different sizes I never have enough, what's a good source to buy these? I know, what a noob question, because I am. Never looked for buying lots of these.

One more noob question: my compressor isn't good enough to run the air die grinder. Is there something like an air die grinder but electrical? Corded or cordless, I don't care. I could not find one.

Your is going to wonder about the suggestions I make to you... @Eugen The Princess is your friend - (or the emptier of your bank account ) Corded die grinder is on sale this week -
https://www.princessauto.com/en/43a-ele ... 0009033358

They are a good source for flap wheels too... That come in different Grit sizes - so choose wisely

The other option depending on what brand of cordless tools you are using - I really like my Milwaukee M12 Fuel cordless die grinder, for little jobs so much easier than dragging an extension cord around. the corded one from Princess is a good value when on sale and is in the toolbox of many a frugal heavy equipment mechanic (although we usually have access to heavy duty air compressors...)

haha, @RoamingGnome thanks, I have been looking for a die grinder other than air a while ago and for whatever reason the ones that showed up in my search now didn't exist then.

I really like the M12 and I have all Milwaukee tools at the moment, M18 and M12. I've been a little disappointed with my M18 drill and impact though Another hard decision, should I stay with Milwaukee and pay double the price of the Makita 18V die grinder? ugh! maybe ask my

Or just get the corded PA one.

For cleaning out pin bores with a flap wheel I would suggest the PA corded one, you'll find it has a bit more torque, and you can "lean" on it a little more without it stalling out.

I have a 120 volt craftsman and a Dremel electric die grinder. They are mostly for small stuff. Mostly used for cleaning up cylinder heads on cars back in the day of wrenching. Harry

Ordered the corded die grinder, it's not the right time to go for the more expensive cordless version.

Today we got a break in the rain so I unrolled the 100 feet welder extension cable and finished one rod with E7018 on DCEP. Also finished the second eyelet on the lathe. The got the interior piece out of the stabilizer assembly on both sides. That needed some cutting disk action on account of a 5/8 pin that was not cooperative. A remaining foot on the stabilizer was held on by a very rusty 3/4 bolt. Luckily access to it was easy and after heating the nut it came undone without a lot of effort. Sorry, no pics today.

for things like cleaning out a bore, I like to use an improvised flap tool like this: https://www.instructables.com/Simple-DIY-Flap-Sander/

but instead of having the slot open-ended, I like to cut the slot so that it's contained within the rod, that the rod extends out past the slot.

It's harder to do that, so I take my 1/4" steel rod and cut an extra-deep slot in it by feeding one end into the benchtop bandsaw blade, and then simply weld closed the rod tip, about a 1/2" or so from the end, and clean up the welded end on the big sander.

Once it's made and mounted in the die grinder, you feed a piece of emery strip in that slot and the centrifugal force expands it out when the grinder is running.

simple, fast, cheap, effective.

The quad-fecta.


Because it has just the two flaps, they don't do a lot of stock removal. They're more of a fine finishing/honing tool, which is great on machined bores that you don't want to gouge or distort.

Bob

For the size Eugen is working on . Brake cylinder and Caliper hone work nicely.

Thank Bob @thebuildist , I will make this, it's something I can use on other bores.

@DavidBarkey I do have a brake cylinder hone! Thanks for the idea, it did not cross my mind.

thebuildist wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 6:17 am for things like cleaning out a bore, I like to use an improvised flap tool like this: https://www.instructables.com/Simple-DIY-Flap-Sander/

but instead of having the slot open-ended, I like to cut the slot so that it's contained within the rod, that the rod extends out past the slot.

It's harder to do that, so I take my 1/4" steel rod and cut an extra-deep slot in it by feeding one end into the benchtop bandsaw blade, and then simply weld closed the rod tip, about a 1/2" or so from the end, and clean up the welded end on the big sander.

Once it's made and mounted in the die grinder, you feed a piece of emery strip in that slot and the centrifugal force expands it out when the grinder is running.

simple, fast, cheap, effective.

The quad-fecta.


Because it has just the two flaps, they don't do a lot of stock removal. They're more of a fine finishing/honing tool, which is great on machined bores that you don't want to gouge or distort.

Bob

I have made something similar, but used long cotter pins. Sometimes on small bores I needed to pound the loop end flat and the chuck pulls the split end closed when the sandpaper is in place.


Gordy

Behold! And be amazed. The rods got made up.

Great job @Eugen !

Thanks Jeff!

Had a productive day. The morning was spent with the boys, we went in town, then some grocery shopping and finally could start working on the backhoe around 2:30. After the welding I cleaned up that area a little with the grinder and spray painted the ends as you saw.

With the paint dry quickly on account of the nice weather it was time to assemble the cylinders. This is how the big nut gets tightened.



The assembly of the two cylinders went smooth as all seals were in and was prepared in advanced. Packed the space between the gland and cylinder with heavy duty grease before tightening the gland nut. Forgot to take pictures.


Then I pressure washed the main body frame of the backhoe, all nooks and crannies on the backhoe arms and inside the stabilizer posts.


Thought I'd end the night with drilling the end hole in the stabilizer cylinder 1" new rods. The machinist who did the other end, the thread, told me it's hardened and recommended to grind some of the surface before drilling. All measured and marked and that's what I did, ground some of the surface before drilling. I was surprised that my punch still got dull when I tried to mark the hole start. Not only but the drill bit just wouldn't go in. Tried the tungsten carbide bit and that went further but I pressed too hard on it and broke it.


Looked online for more info and noticed people saying the hardened exterior can be as much as 0.1" thick. So I ground more and got to softer steel. The drill bit then went in fine.



I'm stuck, however, because it seems I'm missing the 5/8 drill bit that I need for this hole. Oh well...

The electric grinder arrived from Princess Auto, a store similar to Harbour Freight. Excitedly I open the box which seemed to be an opened box already, and the collet nut is missing. I'll stop by the store tomorrow and show it to them. Patience young grasshopper, patience...

Ah... the frustrations of "Mail Order" shopping... Patience is a valuable commodity -
Maybe check the Stores inventory online (or call them) just to make sure they have another one in stock?

RoamingGnome wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 1:08 pm Ah... the frustrations of "Mail Order" shopping... Patience is a valuable commodity -
Maybe check the Stores inventory online (or call them) just to make sure they have another one in stock?

Yeah, I did. Instead of "x quantity in stock" like it says for other stores, it only says "In stock"

I need to go to Toronto tomorrow anyway, so I'll stop by the store. I sure hope they have one in stock. The Barrie store is the only one near my route. All other locations are significantly far.

I ordered it for home shipping because I wasn't sure I go anywhere near the store before any time soon. It's not ideal, but it is what it is.

As you all know I'm an expert at distance welding and painting. That means it only looks good from a distance.


This evening I painted some of the backhoe frame and the interior and exterior of the stabilizer posts.

All was in a terrible shape with dirt and rust. Did the best I could to pressure wash it a few days ago, and wire wheeled it today.

Looks good from here! a so so paint job is a lot better than dirt and rust. I should know, so so painting is about as good as I can do!



You’re moving right along on this. I’m getting excited to see it dig!

Eugen, paint looks good. Guy’s I worked with in the past would say “looks good from the road.” Harry

Yesterday I stopped by Princess Auto on my way to work in Toronto, and explained the young woman from customer service that the collet nut was missing from the original package. She asked if I simply wanted a replacement and I said yes, then she gave me an extra discount of 10% for the inconvenience. It was reasonable of them to do so, though it'd have been a little better if they refunded the shipping since I ended up going to the store anyway. I'm not bitter, it's all good.

As I entered Toronto I steered slightly to the right and went to meet Eugene aka @Spike188. It was great to catch up a little and exchange a few words in real life, always a pleasure to meet up. Courtesy of him I ended up with a good pair of rims for the 644! How nice it is to have friends in high places!

The two 5/8 holes are finished.


Assembly of the two stabilizer cylinders can start.

With the stabilizer cylinders done it was time to assemble the posts and feet.

The backhoe frame goes to spa to get its back done. Good dishwasher liquid rub, pressure wash rinse, followed by a wire wheel scrub and paint.

Here we go, first coat. Better nobody say I missed a spot, you all know my pathological perfectionism. As you can observe, the serial number tag is masked , a tiny display of my attention to detail. Many of you will wonder about my choice of using a brush. To that I say, did Michelangelo use spray paint on the Sistine chapel?



On a more serious note, @Spike188 , this is the paint I was telling you about. Painted a rusty cement mixer last year, not well cleaned. Stayed outside since then. The paint on it is fine.

I use Rust Coat with Hardener on my stuff now . You can get custom colour mixed at Home Hardware . It is made by Rustolium the maker of Tremclad and a few others .

@DavidBarkey which hardener do you use?

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 7:42 am @DavidBarkey which hardener do you use?

limco LR12 Medium Reducer
Pro From Universal Urethane Hardener
I get it at Carquest in Elmvale , but Midland Carquest should have it to amoung other places .

Some progress is being made on the backhoe.

It’s looking good! It won’t be much longer now and you’ll be digging!

Started assembly today. Not that everything is done but the major parts are and I'll deal with smaller issues as they come up during assembly.

For instance, after setting the swing cylinder in, it occurred to me that the middle part with the rack can rotate and that's most likely how the lower side of the rack teeth got damaged. Bingo. I was wondering for a while why there is a rail on the back side. Turns out that there is a guide for the rail, to keep the rack from rotating in the cylinders.
The guide in the parts manual circled in red was sheared off the bolt. I made a guide from a new bolt with 1/8 plate welded above and below the bolt head.

Also spent time cleaning all the pins with the wire wheel. That's labour intensive but they were in really bad shape, rusty.


Then all the backhoe arm bores where the pins go got cleaned up with the electrical die grinder and 1" flap wheel. @RoamingGnome, I must thank you again, that tool you pointed me to from PA made the job a breeze.


@JSinMO , thanks for following along, it does feel that way for me, I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Of course major set backs can still happen. That being said I have to restrain myself as I feel like working on it all the time and get it done quickly. As it is we have Monday off and until Monday I won't touch it,

It's starting to look like a backhoe

Looking terrific Eugen. Harry

your making some good progress there, nice job
Tim

Eugen wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:18 pm It's starting to look like a backhoe


30C8471D-F512-4F68-8D34-17B06EB775B8.jpeg


48E622AE-C4D9-4487-BD2B-2405346BF155.jpeg

Awesome progress @Eugen You are an inspiration

.
Once you have the trencher/hoe operational and the new 644 finished , when you starting the dump trailer . Thats the only compact earth mover your boys don't have yet . :thumbsup:
It's even the the right collour .
Eugen and Sons hole diggers
I like the sound of that .

Thanks guys!

@DavidBarkey the boys love digging holes, but covering them not so much.

Got a question for you guys because I can't find much info or the operator manual for this. The undercarriage, the tracks and the wheels on which they crawl are all steel. Is there anything I can do to refresh the whole mechanism? @Timj said in the beginning to soak the tracks in diesel, we're you serious about that? Any other advice?

Eugen wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 10:21 am Got a question for you guys because I can't find much info or the operator manual for this. The undercarriage, the tracks and the wheels on which they crawl are all steel. Is there anything I can do to refresh the whole mechanism? @Timj said in the beginning to soak the tracks in diesel, we're you serious about that? Any other advice?

If the tracks are like big machines - when old machines would sit for a long time and track links would seize up - old guys would talk about spraying / soaking the pins and bushings holding the links together with a used oil/diesel mixture to help lubricate them and cut down on the squealing, As for the rollers, they would have a small cavity filled during assembly with gear oil to lubricate the bushings/axle shaft... That's on the big boys though - really have no idea what would be hiding under your Davis trencher...

Thanks Gerry! According to the parts diagram the rollers have bearings. And you're right, the tracks are squealing when moving

For a machine the size of your trencher I'm sure a couple of spray cans of your favourite penetrating oil would work too - used oil/diesel combo is just cheap and in plentiful supply around most heavy shops

RoamingGnome wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 12:22 pm For a machine the size of your trencher I'm sure a couple of spray cans of your favourite penetrating oil would work too - used oil/diesel combo is just cheap and in plentiful supply around most heavy shops

I got oil and diesel I can mix and spray the tracks.

Soaking them up was a little help if they were rusted solid to get them moving again. Otherwise not much you can do, steel tracks running steel on steel in the dirt are noisy.
That'll make it easier to here the boys heading out of the yard.

@Eugen i don’t know if any of this will be helpful, or if you’ve already seen these, forgive me if it’s not. I was poking around this evening and found a few links that may help with information. Some of it may be a bit convoluted but I figured any info is good info. Hope some of this helps.

Price Brothers Equipment has Trencher Parts 877-957-9577

Here’s an eBay CA link to a parts catalog
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/J-I-Case-Tf-300 ... 8966441db6

Here are some exploded views for a 700 trencher.
https://spare.avspart.com/catalog/case/ ... 53/769934/

https://spare.avspart.com/catalog/case/ ... 53/801107/

I think Gerry and Tim are right. I’d soak the tracks with what ever you have. And search hi and low for grease fittings! Track pins won’t have any but the rollers and idlers might.

Jeff, I appreciate! Looking through the links I found a fellow in the UK selling the operator manual. It's a little pricey so I'm thinking about it.

The reality is that a proper assessment of the whole crawler system would be done only with full disassembly and I must admit, I'm trying to avoid it. I feel somewhat low on energy to tackle a big task like this right now.

Will mix diesel with oil and apply it to the tracks, after another pressure wash to get the soil and sand off. But right now the D100 backhoe is still waiting to be finished.

Today after work I brought the crawler near the backhoe and positioned it for attachment. Spent quite some time with little things that needed to be done: made 5/8 pins for the lower connecting points, sorted out the fittings and hoses to connect the hydraulics of the backhoe to the crawler, sorted out all the big pins fasteners. Turned it on and sure enough I had three fittings not tight enough that started to leak but stopped after a little wrench persuasion. By moving the backhoe frame up and down and tilting it I was able to pin it to the crawler in all four connecting points. All nice and dandy but there is a minor setback. The dipper spool on the valve leaks pretty badly. Now I'm obviously kicking myself for not opening it up when it was out and dry. Lesson learned. Now all the steel lines must be undone, all the hoses off, deal with the oil again , and take the whole valve apart. This should teach me to try avoiding stuff like this.

Valve off, spools out, o-rings measured and order placed. Getting size -114 and -208, ID 5/8, cross section 3/32 and 1/8, durometer 70a.


I'm not splitting the sections though. Anything else you guys think I should do to it?

@Eugen , just make sure you cover all the basics. Make sure there is no rust in the end of bores / seal grooves and is clean. Same with spool ends , clean , no rust or burrs.

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 5:57 am @Eugen , just make sure you cover all the basics. Make sure there is no rust in the end of bores / seal grooves and is clean. Same with spool ends , clean , no rust or burrs.

Thanks Dave! I also paid attention to keep each spool in the original location.

Well, the leaking spool being a minor setback, last night I became aware of a major setback, and it's connected to the actual backhoe. The D100 backhoe was really the reason for getting this whole machine, and my original plan was to mount the backhoe to one of the 644s. Getting the crawler running was not in the plan, so it turned out to be a nice bonus. So, back to the backhoe. I made a costly mistake: installed the boom cylinder in the wrong orientation. One of those moments when I was looking and there was a fleeting thought that it should be installed with the hose connections towards the bottom like this


yet, for some reason, I installed it with those connections upwards. The dipper cylinder gets installed on top of the boom cylinder. The net result was that when the backhoe arm goes straight, that is, when the dipper cylinder extends, the big bump on the upper side of the boom cylinder stops the dipper cylinder from moving downwards. As I briefly tested extending the backhoe arm, the dipper cylinder extended and bent the rod, not being able to move downwards. Not cluing in fast enough, I retracted it. But then, realizing this was the case, I extended it again so I can have it in position to pull the bent rod out to fix it. But the bent rod in itself isn't the major setback. The real problem is that the bent rod pushed the piston into the side of the barrel so hard that now there's a big gouge, about 3" long and 3/4" wide at the bottom. Pretty deep by the looks of it.
Of course I'd like the keep the original cylinder, but a new one from PA is about $230. I don't like it, but I don't really see an alternative.

that sucks.

Does it ever!

Punishment for screwing it up is to cut it open and try and fix it.


Now the gouge is within reach, like 3" from the cut off end. JB weld anyone?

Maybe just real weld on top of the gouge and then clean up with the die grinder and polish? It kinda has a tiny chance it might work.

@Eugen in this case I would say no to JB Weld . What size is the barrel. ?

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:48 pm @Eugen in this case I would say no to JB Weld . What size is the barrel. ?

yeah, I was kidding about jb weld. 3 inch bore, about 22 inches long. I'm thinking splatter could be an issue, requiring more grind cleaning. Maybe I'll pick up an anti splatter spray and apply to the inner barrel except for the gouge (masking tape). I'm also thinking 7018 stick DC because one, it reaches easily inside, not like the mig, and it splatters the least (for me). It'd be nice to turn the inner weld bump on a lathe after the initial welding, but I don't have a steady rest for my lathe and the piece may not fit anyway.

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:59 pm

DavidBarkey wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:48 pm @Eugen in this case I would say no to JB Weld . What size is the barrel. ?

yeah, I was kidding about jb weld. 3 inch bore, about 22 inches long. I'm thinking splatter could be an issue, requiring more grind cleaning. Maybe I'll pick up an anti splatter spray and apply to the inner barrel except for the gouge (masking tape). I'm also thinking 7018 stick DC because one, it reaches easily inside, not like the mig, and it splatters the least (for me). It'd be nice to turn the inner weld bump on a lathe after the initial welding, but I don't have a steady rest for my lathe and the piece may not fit anyway.

agreed. same here on my lathe . boring and honing after welding would be ideal .
You could make an align bore cutter . picture alarge steel rod with a bracket attachhed in the middle ish that held a cutter with bushings on each end to center in bore of tube . cutter is set to take a bit at a time untill only a few thou let so as not to mark the rest of cylinder . powered by large drill . then hone to size and finish .

@DavidBarkey I was thinking of a ridge reamer to do the preliminary boring. Do you possibly have one?

Eugen wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 3:54 pm @DavidBarkey I was thinking of a ridge reamer to do the preliminary boring. Do you possibly have one?

Yes I do . Yes you can . That might just work . Hadn't thought of that . Just need to make sure all slag is removed first . It is sure worth a try .

I have big doubts this'll work out in the end. Will take it to the machinist next week to do the main stuff on the big lathe.

p

I can’t say weather it will work or not either, but you certainly get an A for the effort.

He he, thanks Jeff! Sometimes all you end up with is the effort.

... the machine shop said they can't bore the barrel so far in. The alternative solution would be to get hydraulic barrel tube, the folks at the machine shop said such tube surely would be pricey. At this point I'm wondering if the effort and $$ are justified just so that this one hydraulic cylinder looks like the other two. I'll think about it some more.

Dang I thought you about had it ready to go.
I surely support whatever you decide. Personally I wouldn’t feel bad if a new cylinder worked just a good and was more cost effective.

Turns out the hydraulic shop in the city don't stock 3" tube at all, so I answer put an order for a new cylinder of similar size.

@Eugen I have set of loader cylinders that need rods. Would one of those be of any use to you?

Spike188 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 10:40 pm @Eugen I have set of loader cylinders that need rods. Would one of those be of any use to you?

Thank you, but it's too small. It's ok, new cylinder from PA ordered already.

I'm not going to ramble today. New cylinder, pins, fittings, top and bottom spool o-rings on the valve, topped up the hydraulic oil. Tested it a little, no leaks, seems functional.

looks awesome

@Eugen how close are the speck of Princess Auto cylinder to the Davis?

Spike188 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 11:32 pm @Eugen how close are the speck of Princess Auto cylinder to the Davis?

Very close. I got what they call the screw head utility cylinder 3-18. Both PA and Davis are pin to pin 26", bore 3", stroke 18". The Davis rod is 1.5 whereas the PA is 1.25. The outer diameter is 3.5 for the PA and a little less than 3.5 for the Davis. Pin hole is 1-1/8 for Davis and 1" for the PA, so I made new 1" pins. Pressure rating for the PA cylinder is 3000 psi. It has #8 orb ports.

As far as I'm concerned it's an almost perfect replacement. Even having to buy this new cylinder I cannot be upset.

Great job! I’m glad the function test was all positive!

Great to see it all coming together... can't wait to see a video of it digging!

Thanks guys, I'll shoot a video if I get it to run something resembling normal. I've tried to cover the hole using the backhoe. The 15HP engine is clearly struggling at times.

Question to you guys who have the D100 on your tractors: how does it behave when you get to the end of the stroke? Mine tends to bog down the engine, and if I move the backhoe fast and get to the end of a cylinder stroke the engine just stops, the relief valve doesn't kick in. The manual states main relief at 2000 psi. I find it hard to believe that this 15HP can't push through a relief valve at 2000 psi.

Sure, real answer I'd get if I measure the pressure. Hoping that you guys with backhoes would give me some indication on what normal operation is like.


Edit: some thoughts I've had about this issue since I wrote this above. There are clear signs that the main previous owner was someone conducting a business with this device. Also clear modifications and departures from the original build. The backhoe boom and dipper has many reinforcements, welded patches. The hoses it came with were all custom made and not with the original Davis routing. I wouldn't be surprised if the relief valves have been "adjusted" to death. From a practical standpoint, given that the current engine may be somewhat underpowered for the d100, I think I'll just adjust down the main relief valve by ear.

My engine bogs down at the end of travel but it has never died as a result. I’d guess your thought on the relief valve being adjusted way beyond where it should be is probably correct.

JSinMO wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:21 pm My engine bogs down at the end of travel but it has never died as a result. I’d guess your thought on the relief valve being adjusted way beyond where it should be is probably correct.

Thank you Jeff! Do you remember if you hear the relief valve "squealing" somewhat? There is a certain different sound when the relief valve opens up, am wondering if you noticed that, at the end of travel, if you try and push further.

Eugen wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:23 pm

JSinMO wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:21 pm My engine bogs down at the end of travel but it has never died as a result. I’d guess your thought on the relief valve being adjusted way beyond where it should be is probably correct.

Thank you Jeff! Do you remember if you hear the relief valve "squealing" somewhat? There is a certain different sound when the relief valve opens up, am wondering if you noticed that, at the end of travel, if you try and push further.

Sorry I should have said that. Yes I can hear the relief valve.

JSinMO wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:33 pm Sorry I should have said that. Yes I can hear the relief valve.

This is very helpful and it confirms my suspicion!

The owner manual for the D100 that put in the technical library section had some interesting details about the relief valves. Together with the service manual for the hydraulics on the 600 series lbh it gave me a good idea that one is not supposed to mess around with the relief valves. The relief valves for the dipper and boom are straightforward to adjust. They are like a big bolt and the valve is in it, you can tighten or loosen a mid positioned screw. I'll post a picture next time I take it out.

The main relief valve though, is more complicated. Once it was out it was clear someone's been there before. At the vertically bottom there's a steel mesh screen held in place by an internal snap ring/circlip. One eyelet on the circlip was broken.


Of course I did not have a 1/2" internal snap ring on hand, so I practice some patience. The little adjustment did nothing though.
Seeing that somebody has already disassembled it, I did too. It too has an inner element with a screw and a spring, making me think that's the only way to adjust it.

Tested the backhoe some more. All of a sudden the engine sounds like there's a hole in the muffler. I take a look and see one of the bolts fastening the muffler too the engine has sheared.
How or why is beyond me. This was a new engine.

The good news is that there's enough room to drill a hole.

And then use the extractor.

Came out easy.


Then I drilled the hole with a 5/16 bit and threaded with the 3/8-16 tap. New bolt and back to digging.

A few more impressions about the backhoe. I don't really understand why this engine, rated at 15hp, slows down and even dies when the digging gets very hard. As far as I know the there are 644 lbh tractors equipped with the D100 backhoe, so if the Kohler 14hp was enough for good operation of the backhoe, why this 15hp isn't?

@Harry , I'm curious, how does your 644 lbh behave when digging?

Do you know the size of the pump section that drives the backhoe? Maybe it's more than 15hp can handle.

Timj wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:44 am Do you know the size of the pump section that drives the backhoe? Maybe it's more than 15hp can handle.

Oh Tim, you hit the nail on the head. Pretty dumb of me, I forgot about the pump.I don't have measurements but it's quite big in comparison to the 644 pump.

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:23 am

Timj wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:44 am Do you know the size of the pump section that drives the backhoe? Maybe it's more than 15hp can handle.

Oh Tim, you hit the nail on the head. Pretty dumb of me, I forgot about the pump.I don't have measurements but it's quite big in comparison to the 644 pump.

Be curious to know the displacement of that pump to compare to a 644. But by the looks of it all the markings are on the bottom.

Eugen wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:29 am Tested the backhoe some more. All of a sudden the engine sounds like there's a hole in the muffler. I take a look and see one of the bolts fastening the muffler too the engine has sheared.

385BF98B-46C1-4E80-8F54-76A7C49CDE0B.jpeg

How or why is beyond me. This was a new engine.

The good news is that there's enough room to drill a hole.

E8D58780-2B46-442E-B45A-F2B608A7F1D0.jpeg


And then use the extractor.

873C27B0-62A6-454B-A5A0-EE08CA2895A0.jpeg


Came out easy.


1A187244-43A7-4B98-95C4-FD64E43957C7.jpeg


Then I drilled the hole with a 5/16 bit and threaded with the 3/8-16 tap. New bolt and back to digging.

A few more impressions about the backhoe. I don't really understand why this engine , rated at 15hp, slows down and even dies when the digging gets very hard. As far as I know the there are 644 lbh tractors equipped with the D100 backhoe, so if the Kohler 14hp was enough for good operation of the backhoe, why this 15hp isn't?

@Harry , I'm curious, how does your 644 lbh behave when digging?

I was just using it the other day Eugen. I don’t use it with much throttle but not sure at what rpm. It’s always seems to be effortless for the backhoe to dig. Once I was trying to dig around a stump and it would catch on the roots and pull the whole tractor closer to the stump. No pressure relief squeal or governor kicking in either. The hoe is phenomenal for digging. The loader is another story with the pressure relief kicking in under a heavy loader. If it wasn’t such a PITA to turn up the pressure relief, it would have already been done. Harry

I concur... The hoe shouldn't be the issue unless there's something seriously restricting the flow... Probably just a big displacement pump to handle the high flow for the trencher motor drive. I'd suspect that wouldn't take a ton of pressure, but lots of flow. I don't think I've ever run the hoe over 1/2 throttle, and most of the time I'm barely over idle.

Thanks guys, this makes a lot more sense now, and it's logical. The original J60 or JB Onan on this device has 60 cubic inches displacement and a compression ratio of 6.5:1. It was a popular engine used on the 7.5B Onan generator, capable of 7500W at 1800RPM. I could not find a definite horse power spec for this engine, but it must've been capable of about 12 HP at 1800RPM, and maybe up to 17 HP at around 2600RPM.

The engine currently in the trencher's spec'ed at 15 HP, but it's about half the displacement of the J60/JB engine. I think clearly this engine is underpowered. More reason to kick myself for not getting that Hatz 26HP diesel a few months ago

H
Wonder if anyone could recognize these markings on the hydraulic pump

I just thought I had my ramble for today but now I feel another one building up.

You all thought perhaps that the trencher saga will slowly dwindle to and end, and having the crawler and backhoe somewhat functional marks the beginning of that end. Well, what can I tell you, this might not happen yet. Here's a preview of the next season.

Remember how I said the engine struggles? I've been keeping an eye on the market for many months for a diesel engine of about 20 to 26 hp. There were none until two days ago when one came up for sale at one of those too good to be true prices. Against all common sense telling me that too good to be true really means too good to be true, I tell the seller I want to get that engine. The description said 'runs like a top' so I'm thinking even if 75% of that rings true, it's still a good deal. Pictures didn't look too bad, and the distance to it manageable. From what I've see on the market so far, running diesel engines of this size and at a decent price don't last long at all, so you don't have much time to ask questions or sit on it, if you want it, you shoot first and ask questions later. But I value my life so I did say to about it, and she didn't object so I went for it, thinking that I can deal with details later.

After reaching a deal with the seller, wise little me starts looking for the specs on the Kubota D1703 engine.
It was a pretty engine when it was new. Of course the one I get will look a lot worse, but hopefully it runs and I can use it.

Hm.. somehow it didn't cross my mind that it could possibly not fit in the crawler, seeing as to the large empty space it has in the middle, where the original Onan J60 was. Plus this crawler was equipped either with the Onan, or a Deutz engine. Still, I went and measured the cavity in the crawler and compared with the specified dimensions of the D1703 engine. It might barely fit.

The plan is to pick the engine up tomorrow.

To make matters more fun, it's missing the fan, radiator, exhaust, and more importantly, a bell housing adapter to the hydraulic pump.

You just HAD to go and make us all jealous! I hope she's a runner!

Bob

Way to go@Eugen ! I hope it’s a good runner!

I’m ready for part 2 of the crawler backhoe story!